Any ideas on what I should do?

[16bwhitt]

I feel like a newbie asking this, but I have a client's laptop that is running extremely slow. It is a fairly new laptop, i7, 16GB of RAM, running 21H2 Win 10. I've done malware scans, updated everything, ran what hardware analysis I could using TeamViewer, checked what's running. The CPU runs around 5-10%, RAM and HDD are also fine. But, when I go to do anything on the machine, it just takes forever to load. I am talking 1-2 min to load file explorer when I first looked at it. Optimized the disk, had 6GB in temp files. I booted into safe mode, it ran a little better in safe-mode. I thought I got it cleaned up and running better, client used it fine for a few days. Of course, today I sent the invoice and they call saying it is slow again.

This client is outside of my "zone", my on-site tech in the city they're in is out of service due to a heart attack. There are no other IT shops in the area I could offload this to either. I could drive there, but it is not cost-effective for anyone.

I am trying to think of what else I can do remotely - any ideas? An in-place reinstall would be risky remotely. I just can't think of anything else.

Thanks!

 

[Porthos]

An in-place reinstall would be risky remotely.

Not really. Done a few.
SSD? AV software?

 

[16bwhitt]

Not really. Done a few.
SSD? AV software?

No SSD, regular spinning disk. AV software is Malwarebytes and MS Defender.

 

[Porthos]

No SSD, regular spinning disk

That sucks.

Malwarebytes and MS Defender.

Same here.
Did they change AC adapters? What model is it?

 

[frase]

The only thing I could suggest is a swap of HDD>SSD, to rule out a drive issue; or boot via PE/Linux to rule out OS issue.
Though either way that is not part of the plan remote.

 

[seashore]

@16bwhitt Have you run CrystalDiskInfo or similar?

 

[timeshifter]

No SSD, regular spinning disk.

^ I think I've spotted the problem

 

[tek9]

Is it slow on battery as well as AC power? Might be the CPU is throttling. Check the CPU speed in task mgr. And I agree with the others on the HDD being slow.

 

[SlickMinnow]

My gut feeling is to check the drive. I've been seeing drives that pass all the diagnostic tests, but still 'feel' sluggish. As far as remote - you might try HDSentinel and run the 'Repair' surface test (Disk -Surface Test then select test type 'Disk Repair'). This will give you an idea about drive slowdowns. If you see any dark spots, the drive is technically good, but not performing well. Then, of course, you're back to laying hands on the machine. Let us know...

 

[nlinecomputers]

Exact brand and model would be helpful.

Any thing in the event logs?
A HDD is a big bottleneck with Windows 10.

DISM?

 

[Diggs]

@16bwhitt Have you run CrystalDiskInfo or similar?

I use CrystalDiskInfo often but I've found it only catches about 50% of bad HDDs. A HDD going bad and re-reading sectors again and again does not always show up on CDI as bad.

 

[seashore]

I use CrystalDiskInfo often but I've found it only catches about 50% of bad HDDs. A HDD going bad and re-reading sectors again and again does not always show up on CDI as bad.

Me too. If CDI says Caution I know the drive's bad. If it says Good I still test a replacement drive just in case.

 

[britechguy]

After ruling in/out an HDD issue, the following is my "go to" prior to a nuke and pave, and I seldom have to do a nuke and pave these days, as repair installs most often get the gremlins out.

Whenever inexplicable issues present themselves “out of the blue” and with seemingly no reason, these are the two things I try first, in order:

1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8 & 10

2. Doing a Windows 10 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows 10 ISO file

I still have two old laptops with HDDs on Windows 10, a Windows 11 machine with an HDD, and a number of clients who have Windows 10 on machines that use HDDs. Nothing that you've described can be considered "within normal limits" just because an HDD is in use rather than an SSD.

 

[mikeroq]

I've seen Windows 10 run like crap on hard drives, especially in laptops. That's one reason I stopped selling computers with hard drives. Every computer I quoted had an SSD. Only option was an additional hard drive for storage. Now that I'm just "consulting" same thing, never suggest any computer with only a hard drive.

You should also check and make sure the processor is running at full speed and doesn't say something funky in task manager like 800mhz.

Of course a drive can test "good" and still be bad. I've had a few where I cloned to a new drive and had good improvement, even when going from HDD to HDD. Of course I tried to only use 7200rpm drives too.

 

[britechguy]

I've seen Windows 10 run like crap on hard drives, especially in laptops.

You can knock out "on hard drives" and that statement is equally true. I'm sorry, but the general approach here to "blame the HDD" does not hold up to my own experience and observation, which is beyond anecdotal if not quite "statistically valid."

I am not trying to say that an HDD and an SSD will have comparable speeds. But most of the Windows 10 machines I deal with, including my own, started out life with HDDs and a great many (not my own daily drivers, but my backup machines) still have them.

You should not, under any circumstances, ever see, "1-2 min to load file explorer," on a Windows 10 machine with a non-defective HDD. That's well outside the range that is "within normal limits." Something else is wrong, whether it be the HDD actually going bad or something else. But if you can rule out the HDD going bad, it is something else, not the HDD itself that's causing this sort of behavior.

 

[SAFCasper]

If it only ran "a little better" in safe mode I'm also leaning towards a failing HDD. As others have said sometimes all SMART tests can pass yet performance drops off a cliff. Think when this happens it's an issue with the controller rather than the disks themselves as I've had something similar happen to a SSD once.

Would be interesting to see a benchmark from something like CrystalDiskMark or ATTO then compare to a known working HDD (or just google average HDD results).

 

[Sky-Knight]

^ I think I've spotted the problem

Yep, no such thing as a "Fast" platter!

But yeah... odd performance issues that weren't once there and an HDD? The disk is dying, they very commonly get slow before they get dead.

I don't support HDDs in Windows 10 machines because they take 45+ min to install a feature update, and this lead to far too many update failures and systems that needed reinstall. The time it takes to do anything on the systems is equally longer, and so I can sell an SSD + less labor to get the thing fixed, and have the total bill be LESS if I do an SSD upgrade rather than just fix whatever it is on the HDD.

 

[fincoder]

I use CrystalDiskInfo often but I've found it only catches about 50% of bad HDDs. A HDD going bad and re-reading sectors again and again does not always show up on CDI as bad.

It catches more failing drives than pretty much an SMART-based diagnostic tool. But these quick tests can't find issues that aren't showing up in the SMART stats.

HDD full surface scan diagnostics are much better but can take hours. I don't do them as much any more, usually just replace a slow HDD with SSD then afterwards the I/O errors when recovering the data confirm the drive was faulty!

With today's SSD prices and the massive speed benefit to the user, replacing HDD boot drive with an SSD is almost automatically done in my workshop.

 

[britechguy]

HDD full surface scan diagnostics are much better but can take hours.

Not to mention they can drive a drive in the process of failing over the edge.

If I have any substantial reason to suspect an HDD in the process of failing, the very first thing I will do is either to clone (less frequent) or create a system image backup from it (more frequent) to a known good drive. They're ticking time bombs that can "go off" at any moment, so if I'm going to stress them it won't be to determine whether something is wrong, as the symptoms give enough of a hint.

But I still love that HDDs tend to give you lots of warning, in most cases, that something's wrong long before they up and die and you can use that time to get what's on that drive off to another. SSDs, by contrast, have always been sudden, instantaneous, and complete death without warning in my personal experience. And the cost of getting anything back from them remains very steep indeed.

 

[Joep]

One should not rely in the simplistic value/threshold values which is what for example the BIOS may do as well as simplistic SMART tools. Example, a drive may have started quite drastically reallocating sectors but even then it may take a while before normalized value drops below threshold.

Treat SMART like this (IMO): Once it starts alerting you, assume the worst. If on the other hand it tells you 'everything okay' there's no reason to assume that's actually the case. If you want to use SMART to diagnose a hard drive, look at RAW values only. If you do that then you could spot it is actually reallocating sectors for example.

Anyway, did you try without Malware Bytes enabled?