Are Graphics Cards still "Made of Unobtainium" at this point in time?

[britechguy]

There has been much discussion over the last year, if not more, about graphics cards becoming virtually unavailable and those few that could be found were priced insanely high. I'm just wondering if this has possibly changed in recent months.

This ties in to the client I've got who as a machine shop who needs two machines with dedicated graphics cards for the BobCAD-CAM software they run. Most business class machines don't have these, and as a result I've been looking at some gaming boxes as possible alternatives. If graphics cards are back to being available and reasonably priced, then installing one would not be a problem, but this is not an arena in which I tread at all frequently.

 

[phaZed]

No, but they're still made of Gold.

 

[Diggs]

They're available and pricing has returned to normal (whatever that is these days...)

 

[Markverhyden]

Given what I've seen so far buying gaming equipment would be a waste of money. You haven't said anything specific about exactly what they do. But if it doesn't involve something like realtime 3d rendering you'd be fine with an entry level business machine as long as it's SSD, NVMe, etc and 16gb RAM. Pop in a low end graphics card, 2 or 4 gb, and Bob's yer Uncle.

 

[britechguy]

But if it doesn't involve something like realtime 3d rendering you'd be fine with an entry level business machine as long as it's SSD, NVMe, etc and 16gb RAM. Pop in a low end graphics card, 2 or 4 gb, and Bob's yer Uncle.

Hence the reason I asked about availability of graphics cards. This is my intent if the things are no longer essentially unavailable or commanding stratospheric prices. But I wasn't sure whether the supply had come back, and at reasonable prices, or not.

The company that makes the CAD-CAM software they use, BobCAD-CAM, specifies the following:

Recommended System Requirements​

• 16GB RAM or More
• 2GB Dedicated Graphics Card Or higher*
• Intel® or AMD® Quad Core Processors**
• 2GHz Processor or higher
• Windows 10 & 11

That's pretty basic.

I still have not heard back from the gentleman who was recommended by a number of folks as a refurb supplier two days later.

 

[Markverhyden]

Hence the reason I asked about availability of graphics cards. This is my intent if the things are no longer essentially unavailable or commanding stratospheric prices. But I wasn't sure whether the supply had come back, and at reasonable prices, or not.

The company that makes the CAD-CAM software they use, BobCAD-CAM, specifies the following:

Recommended System Requirements​

• 16GB RAM or More
• 2GB Dedicated Graphics Card Or higher*
• Intel® or AMD® Quad Core Processors**
• 2GHz Processor or higher
• Windows 10 & 11

That's pretty basic.

I still have not heard back from the gentleman who was recommended by a number of folks as a refurb supplier two days later.

Obviously you'll do what you see as best for the customer. As I've said before I don't have a problem buying refurb business equipment. But I would never by a "refurb" video card. There's large numbers available on Amazon in the $80 to just under $200 range. Even some that would fit a SFF chassis.

 

[britechguy]

As I've said before I don't have a problem buying refurb business equipment. But I would never by a "refurb" video card.

Unless, somehow, the refurb machine were to come with a graphics card, the graphics card would be new. I wasn't asking about refurb graphics cards, but just whether the supply of graphics cards (and their prices) was "back to normal, or pretty close."

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

This ties in to the client I've got who as a machine shop who needs two machines with dedicated graphics cards for the BobCAD-CAM software they run. Most business class machines don't have these, and as a result I've been looking at some gaming boxes as possible alternatives.

Just wanted to point out, the statement in bold..is not true.
Business class machines come in traditional flavors for regular "office" use. Such as Dell Optiplex for desktop, Dell Latitude for laptops, or Lenovo ThinkCentres for desktops and ThinkPads for laptops. However, Dell and Lenovo (and..ugh...HP)...also make "Workstations"...aka "Graphics Workstations", which are (and this is a key term here)..."ISV Certified". Dell has their "Precision" lineup..which includes both desktops and laptops. And Lenovo has their "P" series of ThinkCentre desktops and ThinkPad laptops (mobile workstations). Those special graphics cares, like nVidia Quadro, and AMD Fire, are similar yet different from gaming cards. Mostly in the drivers.

These laptops have the graphics cards specifically tweaked with special drivers specifically tweaked to be compatible with "CAD" style software like AutoCAD, Solidworks, as well as other components under the hood. These are tested and verified with leading design software, making them run like a champ, glitch free with that software. This is what gives them the "ISV Certification".

Workstation Computers | Computer Workstations

Shop ISV-certified Lenovo workstation computers like the ThinkPad P Series & ThinkStation Series for superior performance & reliability ✅Free Shipping ✅

www.lenovo.com

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/workstations-isv-certified/sc/workstations

They come in all...sizes/specs/budgets. Doesn't necessarily mean expensive, you can find some hovering close to 1K.
And...the Lenovo one with the AMD ThreadRipper CPU....fastest computer I've ever seen, I sold one to a client that runs Solidworks, and he's used to some pretty high end high spec workstations, and he was blown away!

 

[britechguy]

Just wanted to point out, the statement in bold..is not true.

And while I thank you, truly I do, for the information you've offered those are "the exception" in the world of business machines, not the rule. I stand by my statement about most business class hardware.

I am aware that such workstations are available, but this gentleman is looking to keep his costs *far* below what these units cost new. That was one of the reasons I had the Lenovo C530 on my short list (which is still not complete). At under $675, with the specs it has, that price is hard to beat.

If I can find workstations such as you have referenced off-lease refurbished and at a price point under $750, they'll be on my short list, too.

 

[Markverhyden]

Unless, somehow, the refurb machine were to come with a graphics card, the graphics card would be new. I wasn't asking about refurb graphics cards, but just whether the supply of graphics cards (and their prices) was "back to normal, or pretty close."

The current prices are comparable to low end cards that have been available for a number of years. Obviously the specs have improved over time. I went to the website, at least what seems to come up, and they seem to have a variety of solutions. If it was me I'd give them a call with the exact version to see what they say for specs.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

We'll have to agree to disagree with that. Computers for businesses is the only world I've lived in for 30 years, when I go shopping, as soon as I "enter the door" at Lenovo or Dell, I head in one of two directions, "office class" or "graphics class". From there, another split..desktop or laptop. But either way, graphics class is certainly not an exception. I'll agree of the ~2,000+ computers we have out there, it's not a 50/50 split office class/design class, it's probably 85/15%...however enough to certainly not be an exception.

A quick peek at Dell Smells factory outlet ...the Precision desktop room.....shows a Precision T3650 at $742.00, however just an I3 CPU. If there's 95 more bucks in the budget, there's a pretty sweet T3650 with an 11th gen 6x core i5, 16 gigs, 1TB M.2, and an nVidia Quadro T1000 w/4 gigs vram. 3 years onsite warranty on it.

Dell Precisions and Lenovo P series...those machines are like 350 class (if you like Ford) or 3500 class (for Chevy/GMC/RAM) pickup trucks...rugged, tough, meant to run hard all the time, in rough environments, for a long life. Dell has enough confidence in that refurb to still slap on 3 year warranty including onsite! That Lenovo you linked...as much as I love Lenovo, that's one of those kid gaming systems, I wouldn't bet a pint of Guinness it would last more than 2 years in an industrial environment. Nor does Lenovo...they'll only give it a 1 year warranty (and I bet it's the painful "depot" warranty). And the combo slug spindle hybrid with SSD, is that the problematic "optane"? Also it has Windows Homeless...not Pro, check with the LOB app, it's not uncommon for a lot of LOB app support to only support it in Windows pro environment.

 

[Sky-Knight]

They're available and pricing has returned to normal (whatever that is these days...)

Yeah, because a 3060 for $400 is "normal", when the same card used to be $250 just a few short years ago. The normal we have is set by the nVidia monopoly, thanks to AMD and thus far Intel not bothering to force prices down since they get to make more money using nVidia's set prices.

If the governments of the world were sane they'd have slapped the nVidia monopoly now. But as it stands, the US in particular has no will to rein in a Taiwanese tech firm.

The counter point I make to even myself is to remind myself that a 3060 is basically a whole other computer, so having it cost as much as the rest of the machine combined really isn't that bad.

But to the OP, GPUs are available at MSRP or less. The shortage is over.

 

[Diggs]

Yeah, because a 3060 for $400 is "normal", when the same card used to be $250 just a few short years ago.

...and in turn they usually have 12 GB of DDR6 memory which is double a typical 1060 card so some of the new increased prices are somewhat justified. I see the used GPU market has really come down on ebay. @Markverhyden mentioned he would never buy a used card. I haven't bought one in the past but I don't really have anything against it for family or friends, but wouldn't for business.

 

[Blues]

Assuming you don't need to powerful a GPU the Intel ARC 380 would probably do a lot for a business application is you are needing to squeeze a budget vs things like the nVidia Quadro and AMD Fire cards preciously mentioned.

 

[britechguy]

Assuming you don't need to powerful a GPU

And the CAD-CAM software does not. And only 2 of the 4 machines I'd like to acquire even require a GPU. The other two will be used for "general purpose office tasks" and even the most basic specs I'm looking at exceed what's currently in place by quite a bit.

Thanks for this info, as I may end up having to get 4 simple business machines and install the graphics cards into 2 of them myself.

 

[SAFCasper]

Yeah, because a 3060 for $400 is "normal", when the same card used to be $250 just a few short years ago.

This is what I came to say. Stock levels aren't an issue any more however Nvidia have realised people are willing to pay higher prices and they are milking it.

Traditionally, mid-range cards could be had for around £150. Cards like the 1650 super were great for budget 1080 gaming, light graphical design etc. We sold a ton of them. Now the cheapest card in the entire 3000 series (RTX 3050) is £250+ and I expect the RTX 4050 will be higher again.

 

[brandonkick]

The world just up and "got more expensive".

I'm having my roof replaced.... 30 year architectural shingles. 70ft of gutter replaced. Almost $13,000 when less than 5 years ago I'd have been looking at closer to $8,000. Prices of EVERYTHING have gone crazy.

They charge it because they know our choice... buy it or don't buy it.

It's like when I was doing arcade work for a family members arcade business. Our pool tables were 50 cents a game as late as 2006 or 2007. Moved it to 75 cents in 2008. Moved it to $1 a game in 2010. Most other places in our area were at $1 a game in the 06-07 time frame. Of the 10 ish locations we had at the time with pool tables, one was either going to put in their own pool table or drop us entirely. We picked up the table the same day. Revenue went down at that location maybe $100-$150 a month. Our top spots each made more than that in increased profit. One less table to maintain. And a much higher bottom line overall. Same idea. Some small number of customers will get ****** and stop buying.... at those huge inflated margins, they wont miss those customers for one second.

 

[frase]

I got my 2070 just before the covid and bitmining extravaganza for $AUS617.00. A normal testing card today for $AUS80.00.
Hardware is expensive nowadays and Nvidia are ripping off their own 3rd party manufacturers.