Empty secondary drive massively lengthens boot times...

MDD1963

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An empty, freshly formatted SATA drive, when connected, causes good computer that boots from NVME drive to be very slow to boot, causing it to sit at 'spinning dial icon' for an extra 2-3 minutes, even though it is booting from an NVME drive. Presumably , the SATA drive is faulty, and it is struggling to read the contents as an inventory operation during bootup, with repeated attempts to communicate with it, even though it is empty? (I noticed it took 4 minutes to even do a quick format compared to the normal 15 second quick-format affair typically associated with a good drive, which is ridiculous, so, clearly it is having issues, so....trash heap? It's an old 600 GB Western Digital 5400 rpm Blue)

The drive is in an Easy Dock 5.25" bay that works fine, if the drive is powered off, boot time is back to 10 seconds...power on the empty drive, boot time back to 2-3 minutes....

It's just weird to see an empty drive no-OS secondary drive tangle up a system so thoroughly during bootup!

Thoughts??
 
Have you looked at the bios? See the boot order and make sure the NVMe drive is top of the list. Depending on bios, you could also remove the extra drive from boot lineup &/or USB (easy dock) - and yes Windows will still see the drive once your in Windows.

Other than that, have you tried with a different HDD?
 
it is absolutely still booting from the NVME drive....(a 960 EVO) At first I thought it might be slow for a WIndows update, but, I made the connection with the small SATA drive's activity light, noticing once activity light changed from orange to green, boot finished in 3 seconds afterward...

The SATA2 drive , a little 5400 RPM 600 GB WD Blue, in question was quick formatted (which I noticed took MUCH longer than normal, several minutes)....; ergo, it would be rather hard to be accidentally booting from it.

I'd seen bad crashing drives lock up systems w/ very long reads, but had never seen an empty one not even involved in the boot process lock up a system merely being connected. As a $25 drive with CrystalDiskInfo reallocated sector errors and causing issues is quite worthless, I just found it quite odd for one to interfere with bootup merely be being connected... (Apparently, Windows queries/inventories the connected drives at least during the bootup process, and, if one of the drives sucks, even if empty...well, enjoy your extra few minutes of waiting....!)
 
Is the SATA2 drive a 3.5" or 2.5"? There is only so much power going through a USB2 port versus a USB3 port - still, if its 3.5" your going to use/need an external power source.

If you HAVE to have an external drive, spend the $50 or so and get a 500 Gb SSD, there is no reason to use a spinner these days unless you need massive storage and even then, using a "dock" is insufficient and should be using something like this. For $49, its a bargain.
 
(I noticed it took 4 minutes to even do a quick format compared to the normal 15 second quick-format affair typically associated with a good drive, which is ridiculous, so, clearly it is having issues, so....trash heap? It's an old 600 GB Western Digital 5400 rpm Blue)

I'd have pulled the plug at 20 seconds and tossed it into the recycle pile.
 
Is the SATA2 drive a 3.5" or 2.5"? There is only so much power going through a USB2 port versus a USB3 port - still, if its 3.5" your going to use/need an external power source.

If you HAVE to have an external drive, spend the $50 or so and get a 500 Gb SSD, there is no reason to use a spinner these days unless you need massive storage and even then, using a "dock" is insufficient and should be using something like this. For $49, its a bargain.

This was a laptop 2.5" SATA2 spec WD Blue with about 3000 operating hours; even attempting a short 2 min test in GsmartControl would error out with 'Read Error' after only 20 seconds...; CrystalDiskMark had it in Caution, with large handful of classic reallocated sectors (152 hex?) , etc...(customer got a Crucial MX500 1 TB, now further tinkering with the laptop's old drive more out of curiosity!)

After deleting partitions (the 14.7 GB Lenovo OEM-protected restore partition had to be deleted within DISKPART, of course), was just curious to see how it would do, but, noticed even the quick format (normally a 10 second process on a healthy drive?) took so long (3-4 minutes) that I thought I might have accidentally not selected 'quick format'...

This was a customer's drive that was giving issues anyway (slow boot, slow operation, etc) so, certainly the fact that it continued to have issues even when stuck into an IcyDock 5.25" bay adapter post-formatting was not a huge surprise....but I thought it odd that merely having it inserted in a freshly formatted state could so drastically affect a perfectly operating system's boot time....even when so clearly not being involved in bootup, beyond the equivalent of what must be some sort of minimal 'asset inventory' scan/function. (I could see the system was hanging at the 'spinning wheel stage for a full 90-120 seconds, and see the green/orange activity on the IcyDock front panel busy LED stuck in orange for 2 minutes (indicating writes/busy, odd for formatted drive!) but, the very instant it switched to green, bootup was then quickly done in the usual 4 seconds. It's like everything was suspended waiting for 'something' from that empty drive, whatever sorts of normally-quick asset inventory handshakes occur with connected assets on bootup, I'd guess...

Summary- any connected failing drive can massively hang/delay a system, ...even a formatted one.
 
Did you test this on a desktop or were you using a laptop? When ever I see a HD causing a boot issue it's because there's a problem with the drive itself, guessing controller based. Using a USB2 SATA bridge does not remove that problem as it's passing all of the hdparm data. It would be interesting to see, but I'd think that if you cabled it directly via SATA you'd have the same problem.
 
I presume Windows is querying the drive in some way - perhaps firmware, mft etc. and that some fault in one or more of those areas is causing the drive to be extremely slow in responding just as it was slow in doing a quick format, thus causing Windows to grind to a halt while it waits for a response. What exact process is being delayed, though, I have no actual idea.
 
It appears the disk is ready to be binned so what do you want with it then? Indeed 'bad' disks can hang up Windows. Maybe disabling automount helps a bit. But I don't see the purpose.
 
To be fair we all like to experiment on occasion even if it doesn't make business sense. Recently I had a drive go belly up on me. Didn't care about the data. But I had several others that were the same model or similar model. So I spent several hours over a couple of weeks swapping PCB's to see if I could resurrect it. I did have handful of times that worked years ago with IDE drives. But no luck with this one, which was SATA. So I came to the conclusion it's not worth wasting any time on those other than to send it up the food chain to those who are qualified to do this type work if it's warranted.
 
To be fair we all like to experiment on occasion even if it doesn't make business sense. Recently I had a drive go belly up on me. Didn't care about the data. But I had several others that were the same model or similar model. So I spent several hours over a couple of weeks swapping PCB's to see if I could resurrect it. I did have handful of times that worked years ago with IDE drives. But no luck with this one, which was SATA. So I came to the conclusion it's not worth wasting any time on those other than to send it up the food chain to those who are qualified to do this type work if it's warranted.
Did you swap the chip over from the original PCB to the donor PCB that holds the drive firmware ?
 
Did you test this on a desktop or were you using a laptop? When ever I see a HD causing a boot issue it's because there's a problem with the drive itself, guessing controller based. Using a USB2 SATA bridge does not remove that problem as it's passing all of the hdparm data. It would be interesting to see, but I'd think that if you cabled it directly via SATA you'd have the same problem.

I connected it to (in, sort of) my desktop, via a 5.25" Icy Dock front bay with perfectly functioning dual 2.5" and 3.5" SATA slots, w/ separate power/eject switches for each drive slot...

This was not any sort of external USB drive removed from a shell, etc. nor was any USB anything used anywhere; this was an old SATA2 spec 2.5"/5400 RPM WD Blue drive, which, per the customer, would eventually boot if you waited...45 minutes!

I replaced the laptop's drive (BTW, thank you, Dell, for making me pull ~15 screws, a DVD player, a few more screws, pry out a keyboard, and a few more screws just to pull the top access plate just to finally access the drive!) not bothering with attempting any sort of clone attempts on it, as the customer said there was nothing from it he needed anyway. So, installed the Crucial SSD, freshly installed WIn10, and now a VERY quick snappy laptop for being only an i3-21xx dual core at 2.1 GHz....no issues there.

Once inserting the failing drive into my own desktop, I saw that it was indeed caution status, with hundreds of reallocated sectors, etc, but, out of curiosity I deleted the partitions, recreated one/quick formatted, noting that the format was taking several minutes vice the normal 10-15 second affair it normally is/always was with many other 5400 rpm laptop drives... (GSmart Control 2 minute Self Test would error out with Red Read Error TImeout after 10% of the test at 20-25 seconds into the test, so, clearly the drive has/had issues, as suspected all along anyway)

Paying attention now to the docking bay's individual front panel drive LED indicator showed orange, that drive's 'busy' indicator, was lit for 3 minutes (odd in light of it being quick formatted and it not being an OS drive, nor selected in BIOS, etc..), all the while seemingly now hanging my 960 EVO system solidly, stuck at the spinning wheel stage for 3 agonizing minutes or so vice it's normal 5-8 seconds... The precise second the 'busy' LED turns from orange to green, the system quickly boots afterward, as if the still painfully slow read activity/status handshake was finally done. How long could it take just to pass drive's make, size, smart status, etc., if freshly formatted? Answer: sometimes at least 3 minutes) :)

Reboot, same thing, so, not a 'one-off' random glitch.

Shutdown, power off the drive's pwr switch to the laptop drive, boot time sequence restored to VERY fast, i.e, 3-5 seconds in BIOS/POST, 3 seconds WIndows Busy icon, 8 seconds or so total to desktop. (No, my system at was at no time ever attempting to boot from the empty laptop drive.)

Near as I can tell, as WIndows certainly inventories attached hardware during every bootup, this particular failing drive, even though effectively empty via a quick format , will lengthen that process if/when the drive is experiencing agonizingly slow reads, in this case, needing 3 minutes just to pass basic status info, effectively, "WD, empty drive, 500 GB, 5400 RPM, etc.."

With a good drive inserted, say, a functioning 1 TB Toshiba, with only a a few backup files stored on it, bootup times unaffected, as it should be. Reinsert this


I'm sure everyone has seen failing drives take a long time to boot (when the boot drive) ,or, be slow to read/populate file explorer, etc...

It's just my first time one has dragged down/massively slowed bootup when merely connected , despite not even being involved in the boot process....(beyond just 'being there'/inventory , showing status, populating File Explorer...)

I should have resisted the temptation to even look at it further beyond it's Caution status and 152 hex reallocated sectors...! Customer wanted it back, i explained what it was going to cause, and happily returned it, and wished him well.....! :)
 
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We see this all the time...a failing drive, even if empty, still has to be mounted by the OS, indexing, etc. If it's starting to step off the cliff, even if the OS drive is fast, the slow drive will still cripple explorer.

With the cost of drives being so cheap, and the cost of labor/time being so expensive....quickly replace any drive at the first suspicion of it beginning to fail.
 
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