ESD - latex gloves?

[Jeffk]

What do people think about wearing latex gloves instead of an anti-static wrist band to guard against ESD?

I know a professional tech who wears latex gloves & I've seen YouTube videos of people doing repairs wearing them, but other people say they can actually cause build up of static & mention sticking balloons to walls by rubbing them on wool clothing first.

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[Slaters Kustum Machines]

My thought would be it would be similar to the balloon, but have no facts to prove it.

 

[DCGPX]

What do people think about wearing latex gloves instead of an anti-static wrist band to guard against ESD?

I know a professional tech who wears latex gloves & I've seen YouTube videos of people doing repairs wearing them, but other people say they can actually cause build up of static & mention sticking balloons to walls by rubbing them on wool clothing first.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Its boll***s - Use an Antistatic band if you wish, but dont be confused by causes of static. Very Very rarely do I use one and I've worked on boards worth thousands!

Wearing latex gloves is simply a way to keep clean. It will NOT create static, if your in an environment that would create static, latex gloves will simply be an extension of you and not a source of the static

As for comparison to balloon- your deliberately creating static by rubbing, under normal use gloves fine. You want to vigorously rub your hair with a glove - try it! You'll find that it wont be statically charged, a balloon will as its air filled and not directly attached to the body.

Why do you thing surgeons use them - An operating theatre is static free by means of no earth ( bit more complex but point is there) so the gloves dont create a differential in voltage.

Use them if you want - I do when cleaning out cases

 

[TopLevelComp]

Here's a good thread on ESD
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=812518

 

[Jeffk]

many ‘latex’ gloves aren’t actually latex

Here's a good thread on ESD

Reading that thread TopLevelComp linked to was helpful but a bit boggling in the depth it went to. An interesting point that several posters there made was that ESD damage doesn’t necessarily fry components completely, but may cause partial damage which either reduces the life of a component or only shows up when certain parts of an IC are used (if I understood correctly) – both of which will probably be invisible at first.

One thing that hadn't occurred to me before was that many ‘latex’ gloves aren’t actually latex. I work p/t on a hospital ward & all our gloves are latex free, for people with an allergy to the stuff. I just put one on & rubbed a 100% woollen blanket for about 30sec then put my hand near my hair – I couldn’t feel any movement of my hair as I’d expect if any charge had built up on the glove, so maybe (non)latex gloves are actually ok…? Maybe it’d be different with actual latex…?

 

[cyde_ePhex]

I actually use Nitrile gloves, ya know the blue ones? My customers like them too. If nothing else, it gives the impression that I am taking great care in servicing their equipment. Now when I don't have any on hand at the time, the I use the wrist strap.

 

[phaZed]

Here's a good thread on ESD
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=812518

That is an OK thread on the subject, but the part about grounding to your homes electrical system is BS.

The question is "potential"!

You can safely work on a computer even if your body is charged to 20,000v of static electricity... but the computer needs to be charged to 20,000v too. This is why you touch the metal of the casing, or the sides of a motherboard (to equalize the potential via the ground plane). Once you have done that you are good to go. Static electricity was more of an issue in early computing and electronics. Nowadays with modern IC's there are protections in place to potentially withstand most electric shocks. Time and amperage are the other two factors which play roles in electric shocks. The amount of time and current that is applied is directly proportional to the damage. Static electricity is fast (good) and super low current (good)... this is why it doesn't kill you, and why your toaster oven in the bath tub can.

Get an anti-static wristband if it makes you feel safer, but you can be safe by equalizing your potential just as easy without one.

 

[NETWizz]

That is an OK thread on the subject, but the part about grounding to your homes electrical system is BS.

The question is "potential"!

You can safely work on a computer even if your body is charged to 20,000v of static electricity... but the computer needs to be charged to 20,000v too. This is why you touch the metal of the casing, or the sides of a motherboard (to equalize the potential via the ground plane). Once you have done that you are good to go. Static electricity was more of an issue in early computing and electronics. Nowadays with modern IC's there are protections in place to potentially withstand most electric shocks. Time and amperage are the other two factors which play roles in electric shocks. The amount of time and current that is applied is directly proportional to the damage. Static electricity is fast (good) and super low current (good)... this is why it doesn't kill you, and why your toaster oven in the bath tub can.

Get an anti-static wristband if it makes you feel safer, but you can be safe by equalizing your potential just as easy without one.

Who hear hasn't dropped a hair dryer in the bathtub full of water while bathing? Seems common. I myself have done this about three times now.

 

[Jeffk]

grounding via the mains

@phsZed - I'll have to take your word for the rest of your post, as I'm new to this field, but I can't see why you say

......the part about grounding to your homes electrical system is BS.

I've come across the idea of grounding via the mains (UK term...diff in US/elsewhere?) elec quite a lot & it seems fairly logical to me:

The mains electric wiring & the mains to a PC's PSU power cables have hot, neutral & ground wires so connecting to the ground line should be the perfect way of allowing static charge to disperse without damaging any sensitive components.

 

[phaZed]

The mains electric wiring & the mains to a PC's PSU power cables have hot, neutral & ground wires so connecting to the ground line should be the perfect way of allowing static charge to disperse without damaging any sensitive components.

No, your right, the ground WILL and is a great path for electricity to flow to. It will equalize your computer's potential to EARTH. However, if you are not grounded to the SAME EARTH ground then your potential is still there. You will STILL need to touch the case before touching something, which is why I call BS.
If you were to touch a electrically grounded computer's MOBO microchip or memory, the electricity doesn't magically find ground, it goes through the component, and then to ground... just as it would when ungrounded. Grounding is more important for proper operation of the computer by lessening or preventing electrical noise and harmonics rather than protection from static electricity from external sources. Grounding also drains static electricity that the computer may generate.

In fact, it could be very loosely argued that a grounded computer could suffer from more damage if grounded! The reason?

If you had a a static charge of 20,000v, and the computer had a potential of 2000v, you would have an 18,000v difference in potential (the shock).

If the computer is grounded, you essentially have a 0v potential computer, but you still have 20,000v difference of potential.

So the ungrounded system in this hypothetical situation gets "shocked less".


It should also be noted that the Neutral wire IS grounded, but is not THE ground. Your panel or breaker box at the point of service will have the neutral tied to the ground.

 

[Jeffk]

Yeh, I see your point

............. if you are not grounded to the SAME EARTH ground then your potential is still there. You will STILL need to touch the case before touching something, which is why I call BS.

Yeh, I see your point, any elec travelling from me to ground would have to go thru the computer 1st. I was thinking that I'd need to either wear a strap or be in contact with the case, I just forgot to mention it in my last post.

...........should also be noted that the Neutral wire IS grounded, but is not THE ground. Your panel or breaker box at the point of service will have the neutral tied to the ground.

I know that the ground is NOT the same as the neutral...... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you or maybe US & UK wiring is done differently, but in the UK there's earth, neutral & live (ground, neutral & hot) wires in the whole system so if a PC is connected to the household wiring circuit via the PC's power cable & a tech is connected to the PC's casing via a strap then any static built up as the tech moves around (e.g. on nylon carpet) is just gonna go straight to ground....isn't it?

 

[phaZed]

I know that the ground is NOT the same as the neutral...... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you or maybe US & UK wiring is done differently, but in the UK there's earth, neutral & live (ground, neutral & hot) wires in the whole system...

You are correct. The Ground is not the same as the neutral, but the neutral is tied to ground at your main disconnect!

The difference is that the Neutral carries the load (Amperage/current) of your home appliances, and the ground does not. The ground wire is there
only for safety. The idea is that any stray currents will follow your homes ground path, instead of you standing on the floor.

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/mains_connectors.html

That is for a three phase system, for you home, simply delete one of the phases.

...so if a PC is connected to the household wiring circuit via the PC's power cable & a tech is connected to the PC's casing via a strap then any static built up as the tech moves around (e.g. on nylon carpet) is just gonna go straight to ground....isn't it?

Again, correct. If your computer were plugged in and connected to ground, then the electrical potential will become essentially 0v. By connecting yourself to the computer's case you will have a potential of 0v as well. You will equalize your potential to 0v.

The thing to understand is this... if you only strap yourself to the case (not plugged in), you still reach a 0v potential, so in theory it is just as safe.
That is why I called BS