How do you handle customers when hardware works-doesn't work-then works, repeat

[tankman1989]

I have a customer who brought in a 10-11yr old server and a 7-8 year old workstation. Both had problems and were inoperable upon arrival but it seemed that the server just had a bad video card and the workstation was giving BIOS beeps indicating CPU problems.

The workstation had been shipped and was removed from a corporate enviornment so I figured that it might have been jostled around and maybe dropped or something. I removed the CPU an and replaced it and it worked fine. System tests seemed OK as well. I thought, great, that's fixed, I ran updates and software w/o problems.

The server did have a bad video card and I got it working fine if I wanted to run XP or 2000 on it. The hardware wasn't supported in Vista or Win 7 pro. It only has to allow a remote in one person at a time, so XP pro, Vista Bus, or Win 7 pro would have worked fine. The problem is only XP would run on it. This mean that when XP no longer gets support this thing won't be worth having so the customer decided not to use it.

I got a new server and got it working, restore partition, external backup drive, etc. I wanted to create a restore partition from the workstation I worked on and upon hooking it up I encountered the same problem. I'm not spending any more time working on it as it isn't worth it.

I emailed the customer the situation and gave him 3 options, buy a new computer, buy a used computer or build a new one. I told him buying a used one is a crap-shoot as it might seem to work like his workstation and then fail for no reason (actually any computer can do this). I gave him a low performance dell and a mid level $350 & $625 as well as a customer build of the same price points.

Now I told the customer that these were old machines and I might work on them only to find that they are failing later, as the status of them was "unuseable" at the time of pickup and the problems unknown. He wanted me to work on them because he didn't want to spend $$ on new equipment so now I have to bill him for the tie trouble shooting/updating/config plus new hardware. He could have saved a few hundred by just going with new equipment and I know that that is going to be a sore spot. So, what do I do? I really don't want to not charge him for the labor that only let us know this equipment was bad - but he knew that going in. So now he's got a higher bill.

What do others do in this situation? Do you adjust the bill? Did the customer take a gamble and loose and now he has to pay for it? What is your professional opinion?

Thanks for any thought or insight into this.

 

[Knightsman]

If the labor bill to fix the old machine is equal or higher than just getting new equipment, I would let him know. Say its worth it for you to just get new equipement instead of paying me to get the old one working. Not to mention a warranty etc.

your like me, you want to do everything you can to get the old one working because you know thats what the customer wants..but you also know that your time is valuable.

If you tell him that, and he wants new equipment, I would eat the labor, just for the sake of it. But I would charge for new equipment setup.

 

[Encrypted Existence]

I would try to make him as happy as you can without being completely unfair to yourself. Personally I am apprehensive about working on older machines because situations like this one are very likely to occur. Then you have to choose who takes the hit, you or the customer. Of course you want to make your customers happy but in this case I feel it would have been best advise the customer to purchase new equipment and then sell yourself on the setup of the new equipment.

 

[Parkwaytech]

This is why I usually won't work on equipment that old anymore. Six years is about my limit now. I just explain to the customer the cost of repair versus the value of the machine. Even if I get it working, they have sunk another $100-$200 into it, and that just isn't a good investment. The only way I make an exception is if it is for a business, and they need something special that only the old machine can run. Obviously, for them, $200+ isn't that big of a deal then.

When I've run into these situations in the past, I use it as an opportunity to sell. I'll offer to take some or all of the repair bill off (depends on how much they owe and what I actually did), but they have to buy the new system(s) from me. That way, at least I get reimbursed for my time. In over 2000 clients, I've never had one turn me down on that. Most are ecstatic about the offer. It builds goodwill and makes the client think they are getting a deal.

 

[tankman1989]

I would try to make him as happy as you can without being completely unfair to yourself. Personally I am apprehensive about working on older machines because situations like this one are very likely to occur. Then you have to choose who takes the hit, you or the customer. Of course you want to make your customers happy but in this case I feel it would have been best advise the customer to purchase new equipment and then sell yourself on the setup of the new equipment.

This equipment is for a business BTW.

I agree with you largely but here is my main reason for thinkning it should be billed at least partially if not in full. He knew that the equipment was old and not working. He has known this is coming for a long time and instead of saying "I'll buy inexpensive new equipment" that he knows will work for at least a few years if not 5-8 he tries to use what he has to limp by on slow, and known to be way out dated equipment. How much longer will this stuff run anyway, lol? The main point is that this stuff basically came out of the broken pile and trying to make it work was always a gamble.

I wonder what would happen if I took a 15 yr old VW golf to a mechanic for a timing belt to be fixed - he fixes it and a day later the fuel pump and radiator go out. I can bring it back to him to fix it or cut my losses and buy something else. Do I expect him to refund the money for the timing belt? Do I get a credit for the timing belt towards my new purchase?

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm trying to put it in perspective and relate it to other industries. It seems like people have a more difficult time accepting that computer hardware eventually wears out or goes bad and because they can't really see the problem, they have to take the techs word for it. This is where a good relationship and trust with the customer is so essential.

I guess I am just hesitant about charging what I should really charge because my advice and warning were not heeded and what I said might happen did. It would be nice if we didn't have to warn people about 50/50 chances like this but if we don't then for some reason we are on the hook. I think it is the customers job to do some research and have a general understanding about what they need and want and if they don't that is what advisers are for.

Here's an analogy, if my customer told his clients that the grass they were choosing or plants they were planting might not do well in a specific area (lighting perhaps) would he refund them if it didn't grow? I don't think so. Buyer beware and all.

Also the thing is about just charging for new equipment is that he will probably stick to lower end stuff which has very little markup potential. It's not like the old days when a good workstation/desktop would cost $1,500-$3,000 and building one yourself could bring in $500 profit. A $600 mid range dell desktop would cost me about $560 to build myself, plus time/labor for full setup. The margins are getting smaller it seems.

 

[Encrypted Existence]

This equipment is for a business BTW.

I agree with you largely but here is my main reason for thinkning it should be billed at least partially if not in full. He knew that the equipment was old and not working. He has known this is coming for a long time and instead of saying "I'll buy inexpensive new equipment" that he knows will work for at least a few years if not 5-8 he tries to use what he has to limp by on slow, and known to be way out dated equipment. How much longer will this stuff run anyway, lol? The main point is that this stuff basically came out of the broken pile and trying to make it work was always a gamble.

I wonder what would happen if I took a 15 yr old VW golf to a mechanic for a timing belt to be fixed - he fixes it and a day later the fuel pump and radiator go out. I can bring it back to him to fix it or cut my losses and buy something else. Do I expect him to refund the money for the timing belt? Do I get a credit for the timing belt towards my new purchase?

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm trying to put it in perspective and relate it to other industries. It seems like people have a more difficult time accepting that computer hardware eventually wears out or goes bad and because they can't really see the problem, they have to take the techs word for it. This is where a good relationship and trust with the customer is so essential.

I guess I am just hesitant about charging what I should really charge because my advice and warning were not heeded and what I said might happen did. It would be nice if we didn't have to warn people about 50/50 chances like this but if we don't then for some reason we are on the hook. I think it is the customers job to do some research and have a general understanding about what they need and want and if they don't that is what advisers are for.

Here's an analogy, if my customer told his clients that the grass they were choosing or plants they were planting might not do well in a specific area (lighting perhaps) would he refund them if it didn't grow? I don't think so. Buyer beware and all.

Also the thing is about just charging for new equipment is that he will probably stick to lower end stuff which has very little markup potential. It's not like the old days when a good workstation/desktop would cost $1,500-$3,000 and building one yourself could bring in $500 profit. A $600 mid range dell desktop would cost me about $560 to build myself, plus time/labor for full setup. The margins are getting smaller it seems.

I am not suggesting that you should not charge him. I was merely suggesting that someone is getting shafted here (you or the customer). I understand that you warned him that this could happen. Do you think he will be happy when he gets the invoice and the machines are not fixed as he expected (he absolutely expects you to fix them if he is going to pay you)? No, he won't. Now you have an unhappy customer because you took a job that had no foreseeable good outcome. I feel that it is part of my job as a tech to manage my customer's expectations. I am sure that this guy expects the machines to be in good working order (despite your warning) if he is going to pay you his hard earned money for working on them. In closing, I agree that when you work on a machine you should be getting paid for it. With that said, you are also a consultant whose job is to inform customers when they are beating a dead horse.

 

[indy-pc]

I try to be open and honest with my customers. I also try to give options and let them decide what is best. I might recommend one option over another, but I leave the decision up to them since they're the one paying the bill.

You told him what to expect, so I wouldn't have any problem with charging him for the time. However, like Trusted said, he's going to expect a working system if you charge him your full rate.

If I were you, I would have a couple of full quotes together including price for hardware and setup. Talk to him and be very clear about the prices and expectations. If you can't fix it, then you can't fix it. Definitely don't even remotely promise that you can fix it.

One way or another, this customer would be getting charged something. Even if he gets the system back in non-working order, I would charge a consultation or diagnostic fee or something.


On a side note:
If this guy is such a cheapskate and won't listen to you, then don't waste your time and energy trying to make $5 off of him. Remember the saying: You can't squeeze water from a stone.

 

[tankman1989]

I try to be open and honest with my customers. I also try to give options and let them decide what is best. I might recommend one option over another, but I leave the decision up to them since they're the one paying the bill.

You told him what to expect, so I wouldn't have any problem with charging him for the time. However, like Trusted said, he's going to expect a working system if you charge him your full rate.

If I were you, I would have a couple of full quotes together including price for hardware and setup. Talk to him and be very clear about the prices and expectations. If you can't fix it, then you can't fix it. Definitely don't even remotely promise that you can fix it.

One way or another, this customer would be getting charged something. Even if he gets the system back in non-working order, I would charge a consultation or diagnostic fee or something.


On a side note:
If this guy is such a cheapskate and won't listen to you, then don't waste your time and energy trying to make $5 off of him. Remember the saying: You can't squeeze water from a stone.

I think this is where the biggest issues is here. He knows his stuff is old and really outdated. He HATES spending time on the computer so I've always suggested faster machines which would give him the performance that may decrease his time in front of the machine by 10-25%. But he wants to save $$ and deosn't realize that the 50+ hours saved over a year will more than pay for the whole system.

I have to figure out how to make his system work for 2 people with only one Quickbook license and one MS Office license. It's businesses like this that are not really worth working for or with and just make tension even greater because of high expectation because "a friend of a friend" had this done for less.

 

[FoolishTech]

I have to figure out how to make his system work for 2 people with only one Quickbook license and one MS Office license.

LOL there's my limit. I wouldn't touch this situation with a 10' pole. That squeezing water from a stone thing is definitely the deal here.

 

[Mr.Mike]

This is why I usually won't work on equipment that old anymore. Six years is about my limit now. I just explain to the customer the cost of repair versus the value of the machine. Even if I get it working, they have sunk another $100-$200 into it, and that just isn't a good investment. The only way I make an exception is if it is for a business, and they need something special that only the old machine can run. Obviously, for them, $200+ isn't that big of a deal then.

When I've run into these situations in the past, I use it as an opportunity to sell. I'll offer to take some or all of the repair bill off (depends on how much they owe and what I actually did), but they have to buy the new system(s) from me. That way, at least I get reimbursed for my time. In over 2000 clients, I've never had one turn me down on that. Most are ecstatic about the offer. It builds goodwill and makes the client think they are getting a deal.

+1 to this. It's win-win-win. I like your thinking!

 

[Mr.Mike]

I feel that it is part of my job as a tech to manage my customer's expectations.

No truer words were ever spoken.

On a side note, be thankful that only 2 others need to use Quickbooks and MS Office. BTW, if there are only 2-3 needing to use those programs I get them to spring the $149.00 for Office Home & Student (three machines) if they don't need MS Access.

 

[trendless]

BTW, if there are only 2-3 needing to use those programs I get them to spring the $149.00 for Office Home & Student (three machines) if they don't need MS Access.

Yeah...cuz THAT's allowed.

 

[tankman1989]

Yeah...cuz THAT's allowed.

Well IDK if your picturing it the same as it is going to be setup. I won't do anything that isn't allowed by the software manufacturer. The only way that I told him this could work was to have one person access it at a time. Basically there is a computer which acts as their software server and only one person ever needs to use it at a time. So there is a computer with running Windows Pro to allow RDP and Quickbooks and Office are installed on this. They RDP into the machine when they need to use QB or Office. This machine also acts as the backup machine for the office. Both of the other machines ATM are extremely old and underpowered so the "server" is fast for running the software and the client machines are basically thin clients that just need browsing software and AV/Firewall running.

 

[trendless]

Sorry for the confusion, tankman... I meant the Office home & student in any kind of commercial (or non-profit) environment.

 

[seedubya]

There are two problems with this entire situation
1) Him - he's a cheapskate. Forget about him he's not worth your time.
2) You - you're acting like a pizza tech. Maybe you are a pizza tech. This might just be inexperience or lack of confidence, I don't know.

I didn't respond to this thread to help YOU btw. I don't think you deserve any help. You make your own stupid problems and then come on here for the rest of us to fix them, then ignore the advice you're given and do the same **** again. However, there are others reading your threads who might benefit from something I've said and if you do too, well that's the price I have to pay.

 

[anglian]

I would outsource the job to someone in India for $15/hour

 

[tankman1989]

There are two problems with this entire situation
1) Him - he's a cheapskate. Forget about him he's not worth your time.
2) You - you're acting like a pizza tech. Maybe you are a pizza tech. This might just be inexperience or lack of confidence, I don't know.

I didn't respond to this thread to help YOU btw. I don't think you deserve any help. You make your own stupid problems and then come on here for the rest of us to fix them, then ignore the advice you're given and do the same **** again. However, there are others reading your threads who might benefit from something I've said and if you do too, well that's the price I have to pay.

Wow, your magnanimous response is so brimming with helpful information that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread, I'll bet you are just kicking yourself for endowing me with such enlightening information - I feel a record year coming on thanks to this information. And as far as helping others, well that's just the price we pay sometimes for being a noble gentleman and helping those who we don't care for.

 

[techpitt]

There are two problems with this entire situation
1) Him - he's a cheapskate. Forget about him he's not worth your time.
2) You - you're acting like a pizza tech. Maybe you are a pizza tech. This might just be inexperience or lack of confidence, I don't know.

I didn't respond to this thread to help YOU btw. I don't think you deserve any help. You make your own stupid problems and then come on here for the rest of us to fix them, then ignore the advice you're given and do the same **** again. However, there are others reading your threads who might benefit from something I've said and if you do too, well that's the price I have to pay.

I'm new here. I joined because for the most part it seems like a friendly community that fosters the mutual sharing of experience and information. By nature it can be frustrating to do that at times, but expressing that frustration by being rude is counterproductive and only serves to keep new people from contributing for fear of being on the receiving end of the flame.

I haven't gone through the archives to validate your opinion of tank, but if your opinion is correct then I think the best course of action would be to ignore his posts.