Is the motherboard really not working?

[sieow13]

Hi guys, first I like to say this website is like a goldmine for techies & I've learnt much from the various postings and articles here.

Well the thing is, I was at a client's place who told me his Lenovo Q 3000 desktop wouldn't turn on; it will turn on but shut off itself after a few seconds.

I have changed to a new PSU with the same symptoms. My PSU tester also verified that his existing one still works. So next I pulled out the PCI-E graphics card, TV tuner, DVD drive & hard drive, leaving only the board, CPU, RAM. This time it powers on constantly but nothing appears on the LCD when the onboard VGA is connected.

Then it gets a little weird; I reseated the RAM & tried with just 1 slot occupied. Still on but no POST. In my frustration, I then took out the CMOS battery, waited for awhile and put it back. This time the system powers on for some seconds, then off, then on again in an endless loop!

I was frustrated because this Lenovo Q 3000 doesn't appear to have any built in PC speaker for me to hear the beep codes. Even after placing all the components back, the endless loop goes on when I press the power button.

By this stage, I concluded that the motherboard is faulty. Am I correct?

 

[NYJimbo]

I have a similiar problem with a Emachines system. I am waiting for an older 478 mobo to come today so I can determine if its not the cpu.

What you did when you pulled the CMOS battery is change the current config back to the default setup. So many things may have changed, especially what motherboard based devices may be on, speeds or timings on things, boot sequences, etc. So the way it responds now would likely be different.

However, yes it could be the mobo.

Pull the ram and see if the system beeps when you power up. That's usually the quickest way to tell if a speaker is in the machine at all, not all mobo speakers look like speakers, some look like chips.

 

[sieow13]

Hi NYJImbo, yup I even emptied both RAM slots and power on and still no sound. The casing's speaker connectors are built as a whole together with the HDD LED, Reset Switch, etc. Yes taking that CMOS battery is my last resort when I went through the last of my usual troubleshooting steps.

Guess Lenovo wants this machine to be really quiet (They even have an pressable quiet mode button). Though I think that has little to do with the board with no beeps!

 

[sieow13]

I am just going to throw this one out there, but have you considered a heat issue?

Yup I thought about it, hence I took a short break and powered the system (bare essential components only) up again. The CPU fan is spinning, and the heatsink is not really hot. It finally manages to initialise the keyboard (numlock, caps lock flash momentarily) but still no POST and display. In the meantime, the system hums along until i force it down.

It could but I don't think it has a heat issue from what I've experienced above..

 

[purple_minion]

If you know where the power on button and speaker pins are on the MB header, you could connect an extra speaker to the header, and simply touch a screwdriver across the power button pins to turn it on. You obviously have to be careful to not short anything with that screwdriver, but I used to do it all the time on a linux testbed I had. I simply had everything outside the case, much like a tech station. Obviously you need to have the pins marked, or some way of figuring it out from a manual or simple elimination.

You might also try a POST card to see if it says anything useful. I picked one up on ebay for $10 I think. I is a PCI card that also does laptops through parallel port (though those are getting rare aren't they?). For $10, if it works once it's paid itself.

 

[ProTech Support]

You might also try a POST card to see if it says anything useful. I picked one up on ebay for $10 I think. I is a PCI card that also does laptops through parallel port (though those are getting rare aren't they?). For $10, if it works once it's paid itself.

I heard those post cards were really unreliable, you find yourself using it much? Is it usually on point with its diagnosis?

 

[NYJimbo]

I heard those post cards were really unreliable, you find yourself using it much? Is it usually on point with its diagnosis?

I have found it correct a couple of times and other times I just used it to see if the mobo was actually alive and doing anything. The more advanced cards do more and are more up to date. Some of the cheap cards are old firmware dating back many years.

 

[purple_minion]

I heard those post cards were really unreliable, you find yourself using it much? Is it usually on point with its diagnosis?

Well I haven't had a chance to use it really, to be honest. It might give you an idea if the cpu is still kicking or what code it ends on. It was $10 and I said why not. What I need to do one day is dig my computer out and put it in there, the motherboard has led post codes right on it, so I can see if it matches what the board itself says the codes are.

 

[sieow13]

I have found it correct a couple of times and other times I just used it to see if the mobo was actually alive and doing anything. The more advanced cards do more and are more up to date. Some of the cheap cards are old firmware dating back many years.

Sounds like a worthy addition to my arsenal of troubleshooting gear for just $10. I keep that in mind, thanks! I recently dealt with a MSI motherboard that has POST LEDs and from the manual, found out that the memory slot itself was damaged, preventing the system from booting up. This sure saves alot of time with the guesswork and makes us techs look more professional in the eyes of customers with these equipments

For now, I've told my client that the mobo is probably dead and recommended him a new board and case while I reuse his existing components. But he isn't entirely convinced that his mobo is dead even explaining to him. In the end, he told me that he would only pay me if his system is up.

 

[seedubya]

In the end, he told me that he would only pay me if his system is up.

He what?!!!! What did you do/say?

 

[sieow13]

Well I can't turn nasty even if I want to, so I took a deep breath and told him I have faith in my skills and that a new mobo and case will very likely make his PC alive again, and that I will get it up in his best interests to my ability. He finally agreed.

You see, in Singapore people like the word 'guarantee' so they can hold you accountable for your promises. And this case is no different. The reason I got called is because this client is lazy to bring his desktop to the store where he purchased from despite having extended warranty. The onsite support from the extended warranty only covers normal operating hours (9am - 5pm) which he will not be home until 6.30pm.

 

[bagellad]

I think this customer is going to end up being a bad head ache.. I can just tell!

 

[theFakeGeek]

I had a machine like this in just today for the exact same issue. Opened up the case and found a lot of swollen capacitors and two starting to leak. Everything else seems to be working fine. Ordering a new motherboard as we speak...

 

[thor999]

I am just going to throw this one out there, but have you considered a heat issue?

This was my first thought as well; so we can assume that you did remove the CPU heatsink and reapply quality AS5? I would suggest a nice IR thermometer and check various points on the mobo, especially the Northbridge and RAM. Or, just follow step 1 and put a big ass fan on it when you boot.

 

[sieow13]

I removed the propietary heatsink and fan, the thermal grease still seems alright. Even letting it cool down and startup, the issue just stays the same. On.....then off. Yes I have a hunch this customer is going to be a headache for me so a few hours before our appointment time, I called him up to reaffirm whether if he still wants me to go ahead.

Same answer. He will only pay if his system works again. How would you guys respond to such people?

After some post responses, I shall also share what I've done.

 

[thor999]

I can see his reluctance to pay for a non-working pc. These are issues we face all the time, its a gamble on your part. Do you have free time? Do you want to "waste" it on a learning experience, or are you too busy w/ paying jobs? I say get a HSC tech bench and a spare PSU (preferably SLI capable) then you can just mount the mobo, use the enclosed buttons and speaker (they come with it) and rule out EVERYTHING at once. You need this experience anyways, and pretty soon you'll find that you can completely disassemble any PC in minutes. For these issues I actually just add felt washers to the standoffs upon reinstallation for peace of mind...

 

[Doctor Micro]

This is an old thread, and I'm assuming it has reached a conclusion of one sort or another. I'd be curious to know how it all turned out.

 

[Comtech Solutions]

How would you guys respond to such people?

QUOTE]


I'd suggest supporting Bryce by buying the business kit and having your clients sign a work order or something similar that explains (as do you verbally) that diagnosis comes with a price....

 

[Sevdog]

Well the thing is, I was at a client's place who told me his Lenovo Q 3000 desktop wouldn't turn on; it will turn on but shut off itself after a few seconds.

I had a similar thing today. Thing was that when you plugged in the PC it started up and then shut down. Best Buy diagnosed a bad power supply or motherboard and the clients IT department at work had no idea. I almost went with the bad motherboard idea having used another known good power supply but something was wrong. The PC was turning on when I plugged it in rather than when i pressed the power switch. Ended up that the power button was stuck and when plugged in it would automatically start. Since it was depressed it would automatically shut down after a few seconds. Needless to say, the client was really happy that he didnt have to buy a new motherboard and was happy that he called me and I gained a customer who will give me good word of mouth.

 

[sieow13]

Hi guys, sorry it took so long as it has been an exciting June till I almost forget about the thread I've started.

So yeah, guess what, this client needed the PC to be up urgently so he was willing to go ahead with what I recommended. It however didn't materialise as his schedule clashed with mine during the current week. I had an appointment fixed next week Monday with him.

Just 1 day before the appointment, he texted me saying the problem was fixed. Out of politeness I asked him how did he get around it or was it something I've missed out? That guy didnt respond after that.

I was glad that he got his problem solved but part of me is curious on the resolution. In the end I've to guess that he got another friend/techie who helped him out. Fortunately, I didnt buy the necessary parts prior to the appointment otherwise it's such a waste!

Quoting servdog: That is a possibility. I didnt unhook the power switch from the mobo. Previously one guy mentioned in this thread about using a screwdriver to conduct the pins and power the mobo up, but I wasnt confident I could do it. Just days later I got a new mobo for a customer and tried it out myself and was briefly amazed to see if powerup without a button. If I've known this earlier, I could have tried it out on this client.