Making an image backup of a Windows 95 PC

[timeshifter]

Preface, client in industrial setting, Windows 95 PC connected to a piece of equipment that is functioning well. To replace it with something modern would cost upwards of $50,000. The PC is connected using some kind of board using a cable that I didn't immediately recognize (I didn't unplug the cable), maybe a 50 pin D connector. Not really important what it is, but mentioning as I think it's presence makes converting this to a VM non-doable.

They want a backup of the drive / system in case something goes wrong. My plan was to make an image backup of the whole system.

Before I removed the drive I shut the system down then started it back up again. It started up fine.

I removed the drive and connected it to another system using an IDE to USB 2.0 adapter. Was using a bootable Macrium Reflect. It wouldn't backup the drive because it would let me select it. It saw the 2GB drive but said the file system was "empty".

I became a little panicked and put the drive back in the PC. It booted but wanted to run Scandisk but it didn't and mentioned something about not enough memory and to set files and buffers or something. Was able to skip past that and the machine is running OK. Note that those errors weren't present on my first shutdown and restart before removing the drive.

My ultimate goal would be to get a good image backup and then clone it to a new drive, maybe an IDE SSD like this one
https://www.amazon.com/128GB-KingSpec-2-5-inch-SM2236-Controller/dp/B008RVN97A?th=1 Not that they need the speed but I'm thinking it would be safer than a spinner - although this spinner is 25 years old (eek).

Thoughts?

 

[britechguy]

Doesn't Windows 95 have the good, old-fashioned built-in Windows backup & restore in Control Panel? I honestly cannot remember.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd be far more inclined to use it to back up to an external drive from the Win95 machine, then restore that image to whatever other drive you wish, promptly, using the Backup & Restore (Windows 7) that still comes up to and including Windows 11.

Otherwise, some sort of bootable cloner of your choosing, like Clonezilla, might make sense in this case.

If speed is not of the essence (and clearly it isn't), my inclination would be to get several IDE HDDs and clone to those. I trust HDDs a lot more for long term storage (and use, for that matter) than SSDs if backups are not being taken on a regular, cyclic basis.

If they have the software still available to them for attempting to reinstall it, I would definitely be looking to see if it runs on a later version of Windows, even if Windows 7 were the cut-off point, and acquiring new(er) hardware. It would not surprise me if the board for the custom cable could still be transplanted to hardware much more recent. Not necessary to do so until the death of the current setup, which could still be years away, but worth figuring out.

 

[timeshifter]

but I'd be far more inclined to use it to back up to an external drive from the Win95 machine

There are no USB ports on this machine.

Otherwise, some sort of bootable cloner of your choosing, like Clonezilla, might make sense in this case.

Macrium Reflect is my cloner of choice, but trying a different one may be a remedy.

 

[Larry Sabo]

something modern would cost upwards of $50,000

Wow, I'd be apprehensive about working on that system without an iron-clad agreement that if anything goes wrong you won't be liable.

 

[backwoodsman]

The PC is connected using some kind of board using a cable that I didn't immediately recognize (I didn't unplug the cable), maybe a 50 pin D connector.

Probably SCSI.

My guess is, the drive is way too old for Macrium to recognize what it is. May have to fire up your favorite Linux distro and image the drive using dd. For something like this, long-term backup in case of failure, that's probably a better choice anyway.

 

[britechguy]

Wow, I'd be apprehensive about working on that system

Period. But, it's kinda amazing to me that people in the situation this company is in didn't ever think to actually acquire backup hardware (as in another Windows 95 computer, or three) many years ago.

I get why these sorts of situations occur and often cannot be avoided. But when you realize that you need to keep a certain configuration running long past the usual expiration date, creating a hardware stash that allows that, along with the software stash that allows you to keep reinstalling whatever antique control software you must have, should be a part of planning.

Right now if the setup they have goes, heaven only knows how they'd get up and running again even with a full system image backup.

If they want to keep the hardware that the computer is controlling over a much longer term, figuring out how to transplant the essential hardware and software to more recent computer hardware is the way to go.

 

[timeshifter]

My guess is, the drive is way too old for Macrium to recognize what it is.

You may be right. But if you look at the screenshot you can see that Macrium sees the drive, it's size and number of sectors, but it doesn't recognize the partition of file system apparently. I was thinking maybe there is some mild corruption on the drive making it unable to recognize it. Drive was probably FAT or FAT32.

May have to fire up your favorite Linux distro and image the drive using dd.

I like that idea but find it a little terrifying at the same time. I understand that dd could just as easily clone your empty drive to the good one if you get the parameters wrong.

 

[britechguy]

True about dd or any other *nix utility. But you have plenty of time to perfect your parameters on non-critical practice hardware before you ever attempt it on the critical piece.

Hence the reason I suggested Clonezilla earlier. But no matter what you use, do your trial runs first.

 

[nlinecomputers]

removed the drive and connected it to another system using an IDE to USB 2.0 adapter. Was using a bootable Macrium Reflect

WinPE would not have the drivers for a USB adapter. You’re gonna need a PCI IDE card and run the image from Windows or clonzilla

 

[britechguy]

It just struck me, why use bootable Macrium (or anything) if you're using a functioning Windows system as "the cloning intermediary?"

You can clone from external drive to external drive with ease using any cloning utility that runs under Windows of your choosing.

 

[nlinecomputers]

It just struck me, why use bootable Macrium (or anything) if you're using a functioning Windows system as "the cloning intermediary?"

You can clone from external drive to external drive with ease using any cloning utility that runs under Windows of your choosing.

This. But you have to be careful as Windows wants to alter with permissions any files it touches. Connect the drive but don’t open windows explorer.

 

[Philippe]

I've done this using that: http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm.
It will even run under XP.

 

[seashore]

To replace it with something modern would cost upwards of $50,000.

So I'd guess they're willing to pay a very nice sum for this backup.

 

[putz]

Preface, client in industrial setting, Windows 95 PC connected to a piece of equipment that is functioning well. To replace it with something modern would cost upwards of $50,000. The PC is connected using some kind of board using a cable that I didn't immediately recognize (I didn't unplug the cable), maybe a 50 pin D connector. Not really important what it is, but mentioning as I think it's presence makes converting this to a VM non-doable.

They want a backup of the drive / system in case something goes wrong. My plan was to make an image backup of the whole system.

Before I removed the drive I shut the system down then started it back up again. It started up fine.

I removed the drive and connected it to another system using an IDE to USB 2.0 adapter. Was using a bootable Macrium Reflect. It wouldn't backup the drive because it would let me select it. It saw the 2GB drive but said the file system was "empty".

I became a little panicked and put the drive back in the PC. It booted but wanted to run Scandisk but it didn't and mentioned something about not enough memory and to set files and buffers or something. Was able to skip past that and the machine is running OK. Note that those errors weren't present on my first shutdown and restart before removing the drive.

My ultimate goal would be to get a good image backup and then clone it to a new drive, maybe an IDE SSD like this one
https://www.amazon.com/128GB-KingSpec-2-5-inch-SM2236-Controller/dp/B008RVN97A?th=1 Not that they need the speed but I'm thinking it would be safer than a spinner - although this spinner is 25 years old (eek).

Thoughts?

Could it be your adapter?
Have you tried to use an actual IDE controller either onboard or addon card and connect and backup that way?
When the system is properly booted did you check and confirm the formatting is compatible with your program? I suspect either FAT16 or FAT32.
You could try the XCOPY method: https://community.spiceworks.com/to...e-msdos-6-2-working-enviroment-to-a-2nd-drive

Copy a Windows 95 Hard Drive

This is a step-by-step how-to on how to copy a Windows 95 hard drive. This was very useful for me when backing up some of out older machines that are running WIN95. Step 1: Make sure you have a Windows 95 boot disk with the following files: o MSDOS.SYS (hidden file) o IO.SYS (hidden file) o...

community.spiceworks.com

Another idea:

how to clone a FAT16 partitioned HDD with WIN95 ? SOLVED

goodmorning I have 4 industrial machines that runs WIN95 on some obsolete IDE HDD max 8 GB in some partitions. Win95 start a dedicated software for the machine. The upgrade to a newer OS is not an option. I have to clone the full disk to a newer one cause HDDs are almost 20 years old and are...

community.spiceworks.com

Definitely getting a little dicey with how old the drive is an limited options to recover from if something gets messed up.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I’m just amazed that a company that probably is the 8 maybe even 9 figure value can’t spend $50k to keep a critical function running.

 

[Porthos]

I’m just amazed that a company that probably is the 8 maybe even 9 figure value can’t spend $50k to keep a critical function running.

Some companies and users are so cheap their butts squeak when they walk.

 

[timeshifter]

WinPE would not have the drivers for a USB adapter. You’re gonna need a PCI IDE card and run the image from Windows or clonzilla

Not sure I follow you? I set up a desktop machine for this purpose yesterday. An old Dell with no hard drive. I used my bootable iODD image of Macrium. I backed up a newer system just before, pulled a 320Gb WD Blue drive out of a different PC. I did plug it in to the on board SATA controller. But, the backup target was an SSD connected to a USB / SATA adapter on the USB 3.0 port. I'm 99% sure I've used that USB / SATA adapter for source drives.

There might be something funky about my adapter or drive, but I don't think that it's lack of USB drivers on WinPE.

Could it be your adapter?
Have you tried to use an actual IDE controller either onboard or addon card and connect and backup that way?

It might be the adapter. Don't think I have an actual IDE controller I could use. Might also be the drive. I've got a system in my pile o crap that is an old IBM desktop running DOS 6.22. I think I might try yanking that drive and putting it on the same setup I was using and see how it behaves.

 

[Markverhyden]

I'm pretty certain there are no SATA drivers for W95 so you'll have to stay with an IDE interface. Most likely which is why your image didn't work. Remember when they started coming out with SATA drives and we had to slipstream in SATA drivers during the OS install process.

If it was me I'd boot the W95 machine to parted magik and grab a drive image from that just in case. You do need to know what the cable is.

 

[NviGate Systems]

First, I am NOT advocating piracy, but what you need is old Ghost bootable Floppy or CD that has support for systems of that era, typically they boot into DOS.

That combined with @britechguy idea of another IDE drive would probably get you further. Just make sure the second drive is empty so Ghost doesn't decide to clone it.

Also didn't Windows 95 use FAT16? I doubt many modern cloning suites fully support that.

 

[Computer Bloke]

Also didn't Windows 95 use FAT16? I doubt many modern cloning suites fully support that.

FAT32 came in with Windows 95 Service Release 2, so it could be either. If you're really unlucky it could even be using DriveSpace.

If this were mine I'd take a couple of bit-by-bit forensic copies before even thinking about messing with the file system.

Just for giggles, how likely is it that the software on this beast would run under XP, perhaps in compatibility mode? If it can do that then you'd have a much wider range of antique hardware available, and a much less obsolete OS to support.