My wife and pretty much everyone says I am obsessed over Dell servers. T110 T310 T410

hondablaster

hondablaster

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I cannot make up my mind I have consulted many qualified people and get different answers.

GOAL: To simulate an enterprise style server with vmware and XenServer. And my new full time toy.

Problem: Dell will not let me customize the perfect server with the right CPU, power, price, and scalability. I need some help or a psychologist.

T110 ii: Good start right of the bat, perfect for a home lab. Quiet seems to have the fastest single processor of most the available systems. At the right price point. No H700 No Hotplug chassis. Looks and feels like a really awesome workstation. Limited on scalability but by far the best processor from VMing. (go figure) Not a fan of H200 or lack of enterprise style features.

T310: Simulates a enterprise class server. Processors don't seem great for visualization. (low scores compared to other CPUs available) Price point slightly higher, lacks full scalability or processors I am interested in. Can't justify higher price/feature ratio it doesn't cut it. Need to spend a bit more. LOL

T410: 6 disk hot plug chassis, tons of ram scalability (192 GB), ability to have 2 physical CPUs. More expensive but the additional components seem less expensive. More CPUs I am actually interested in. Better price/feature ratio but a long ways away from the affordable T110. May be a tank setting in my living room. Will have to sell some stuff to buy it. Might be loud and still the T110 has a faster single CPU than most of the CPUs available.

In every scenario it seems has Dell cleverly left off a desirable feature. The prefect machine would be:

E3 1230 80watts (T110 ii)
True RAID 0 1 5 6 10 (LSI aftermarket instead of DELL H700 LSI rebrand) (T310, T410)
Scalable memory that surpasses 32GB (48GB and above) (T410 only)
4x Hot plug chassis (T310, T410)

I am fairly hardcore in my trade and really want the best of the best. But Dell doesn't offer the best of each. I could really live with a T310 if it surpassed the 32GB bottleneck. Anyone help!

I am on Dell website, outlet site, and ebay hourly. I feel its consuming my free time and new processors are coming out soon. HELP! BTW is processing power overrated now days? It sure seems like it.
 
Start with the 410.
IMO the 110 is just a glorified desktop...a Dimension, pretending it's a server. 1 year warranty is first clue to stay away from it. Fake Raid options is the second clue. The 310 isn't bad for some basic setups...I'm doing one this week for a 2 person accounting firm.
 
Why are you trying to simulate an enterprise style server in the first place? What do mean by enterprise style in this case exactly?
 
Mentioned he wants to play in the virtual world.

Enterprise...as used in describing servers, usually refers to hardware designed for mission critical services. Uptime, upgradability, scalability, hot swap components, redundant components, robust support, long warranty....among some of the traits.
 
The reason I'm asking is whether the enterprise h/w features are important because if they are it clearly rules out the T110 and one wonders why it's being considered at all.

But if it's to set up enterprise server operating system based networks for learning about them and the like then the base server h/w is of little importance.
 
For Dell parts or systems I like this place for its knowledgeable staff: http://www.aventissystems.com/www/Scripts/default.asp

they also sell on eBay: http://stores.ebay.com/Aventis-Systems?_rdc=1

As a collector of parts, I would probably build my own if it's for my own use.
I've been toying with the idea of building another server for us because I have a leftover Xeon x5550 processor but the idea of paying $600+ for a motherboard just don't cut it.

Been thinking about those newer 16, 12, 8 core AMD processors though....

Anyway, I suggest you go with the system the has the best motherboard and processor and maybe the ability to add another processor to the M/B and add additional ram as you grow in need.

We took this pedestal optimized dual processor server motherboard (Intel S5520HC Server Board) and stuck it in a server rack case with a Xeon x5650 processor and 24Gbs of ram. Nice preforming system, and we can add another processor and ram in the future.
 
MobileTechie said:
The reason I'm asking is whether the enterprise h/w features are important because if they are it clearly rules out the T110 and one wonders why it's being considered at all.

But if it's to set up enterprise server operating system based networks for learning about them and the like then the base server h/w is of little importance.
Click to expand...

If it's to just play with VMWare...true, your point is valid...and a cheap "disposable server" like the 110 would suffice.
If it's to actually host stuff that he needs...with performance and room to grow in mind..the 110 is a 1 year server that I don't call a server but a glorified workstation. Not much room to grow, poor performing, probably won't last long.
If it's to use as a base to really scale up the ESXi host..move to VCenter and attach fiber SANs and learn some fancier enterprise-ish server features like online RAID expansion and stuff only capable with true server features...the 110 is again a poor choice.
 
MobileTechie said:
Why are you trying to simulate an enterprise style server in the first place? What do mean by enterprise style in this case exactly?
Click to expand...

Stonecats response was what I would have said, only with better grammar and spelling LOL

To everyone else, yes, I want to simulate both software and hardware. If I am going to spend xxx amount I may as well spend xxx+x more to finish it off and achieve the goal entirely. The issue is am going nuts trying to draw a line for myself.

T110 ii would make a perfect virtualization platform. It has a fast CPU, its quiet. Does upgrade to 32GB ram. But in the end its still a workstation like system. The raid is lame, the case and chassis itself are not what you would see in other enterprise hardware. Some of the features that are out of my budget today, (as Stonecat listed), would not work in that machine down the road. It may still come to a T110 simply because I need to be reasonable, my initial plan was to get a perfect virtual machine but morphed after I really understood what I was getting into. (Even more of a reason to get the perfect server so I can have confidence/experience later on) Heck just researching the purchasing options really enlightened me.

My gut says get a T410 base model and build upon that. I am thinking on selling a laptop I have just to get me closer to that server and end this buyer anxiety.

As for the virtualization topic: that really is just the tip of the iceburg. I did have all sorts of stuff inside my junk XenServer. I had 2008R2, Asterisk SIP, several XP machines and a linux. I also use m0n0wall (a striped down pfsense) that I want to consolidate into my XenServer as well. I was attempting to get into Citrix apps before i needed a new nic, and abandoned my junker.

@Gikstar. Another website for me to fiend on. LOL

I am going to focus on the T410 for a moment longer. Is it really loud idle?
 
410

I have sold a lot of 410 for Small/Medium Enviroments. I usuallay can Convert 4 or 5 physical servers to a 410 and have no complaints about speed. I normally get the 4 Gig Port NIC or the 10GBaseT Nic in the single expansion slot that is available. I used to use mostly VMWare ESXi, but Have been doing CentOS with Xen more lately, and I have never used HyperV.

You can buy them with the cheapest drives to get the carrier and replace them with cheapie SATA Drives Later. Make shure you don't get the Software Raid Controller if you are going to do VMWare ESXi.

Personally, for a Lab I would use cheap equipment to play with. You can lern everty thing you need to know about virtualization with a compatible white box, or a Xen with any thing that will run CentOS. The other thing here is you can get some cheapy servers, or even cheaper used dell servers, and get a nice switch and router and practice Virtualization with VLAN's and Routing in the mix for the same money.

They are loud for about the first 15 seconds and then get very quiet. If the room heats up, or you put them under exreme load the fans pickup and get louder.
 
I am familiar with ESXi but not with XenServer, how do they compare? From what I read the free version of XenServer only allows the virtualization of one server, is that true? I am curious, what made you switch from ESXi to XenServer?

EDIT:
Did you mean Xen or XenServer? Sorry :)
 
Last edited:
@yeoldstonecat

I know I have beat this topic down, but this is a huge expense for me I will leave stone unturned. (no pun intended)

Around the 31st I was ready to buy a T610 simply because it was the only DELL that offered 30% off everything configured I realized that after I got it complete it was $500 less than every other model. When I received my confirmation from my wife to buy it I fell asleep and woke up the next day to the promo being gone. (I have been configuring and crunching numbers for weeks with the Dell figuration and missed the promo by one day)

After almost crying because of my hesitation and not heading my wife's warning. (She kept saying get it stop screwing around) I am back at it only this time my best deal is the T710 I am ready to buy around $2600.

Is there ANYTHING I should know about T610, T710, T410. I have read many of your posts and believe you have an advanced skillset and value your experience and opinion. Also I value everyone else s opinion as well.

Once again its a serious expense and I am a serious tech trying to buy the perfect enterprise simulation. I am so scared every time I get ready I freak out and retreat from the checkout window but I am going to do it I need to get back into my I.T. projects again.

Big Deals:
  • Noise
  • Power Consumption
  • Size
  • Performance
  • Value
  • Reliability
  • Compatibility (XenServer, Linux, Windows, Vmware)
 
Heh...I know the feeling of missing a deal....wife 'n I are shopping around for a big vacation over XMas holidays end of this year, wanting to book now, just missed out on a deep discount at one resort we were leaning towards. Ouch!

Scroll across from left to right, look at the columns. Notice processors supported, max memory, amount of drive slots, and the 710 steps ahead with PCIe and storage slots for even more expansion.

If you come across a sweet deal on a 610...snag that. Dell talks about the 610 series being hypervisor ready...they don't sell the 410 with that, but I've installed ESXi on 410's before no problem.

http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/poweredge-tower-servers/product-compare

Keep your eye on the Dell factory Outlook...they have a decent stock of 410 and 610 servers right now....and it's a frequently changing stock of them.
http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/poweredge-tower-servers

When purchasing from Dell......shoot for a model with a higher end RAID controller, perhaps dual power supplies, certain dual sockets. You can usually purchase additional memory and additional hard drives from other places at bigger savings than if you purchased them with a server. Crucial for RAM and ServerSupply.com for drives. So do some comparing when eyeballing available servers.
 
The Dell outlet is the way to go. They are refurbished bit come with a 3 year warranty. You came save several hundred dollars buying there. O plan to do the same, pick up a server to practice SMB skills. Good luck
Don't forget to post and yell us what ya get.

Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express
 
Follow up.

I just purchase a Dell PowerEdge T710

32GB Ram 4x8
300GB SAS 2.5 drive
Intel E5645
PERC H700 RAID
16 x 2.5 Hot Plug Drive chassis.

Its going to be awesome.
 
Re:

I run a VMware environment at home on 2 desktops I built recently. I run simultaneously 10 VMs for right now.

@hondablaster - don't forget about the switching you might need setup also, with VLANs probably to separate the VM traffic from the iSCSI traffic.
 
hondablaster said:
Follow up.

I just purchase a Dell PowerEdge T710

32GB Ram 4x8
300GB SAS 2.5 drive
Intel E5645
PERC H700 RAID
16 x 2.5 Hot Plug Drive chassis.

Its going to be awesome.
Click to expand...

Sweet! Wow! Doing a 610 quote right now for a migration at a womens shelter....not quite as many drives as yours though..heh. Doing the h700 raid, 32 gigs.
 
onetech4all said:
@hondablaster - don't forget about the switching you might need setup also, with VLANs probably to separate the VM traffic from the iSCSI traffic.
Click to expand...

@onetech I am going to google this when I get my machine up and running, if I can't figure out what your talking about let me know what you mean LOL.

@yeoldstonecat I think you made the right call not getting the T110 II this will give hours if not weeks or months of screwing around experience both hardware and software wise. I can wait until the cost of disks goes back down I plan on having all sorts or RAID going on.
 
FWIW, for a lab/testing environment, the shared storage is much more important than server class hardware, IMHO anyway.

More and more the recommendation is to have very little if any direct attached storage, and VMware is even recommending that you look at a USB flashdrive to boot from and have your VM's attached through iSCSI, Fiberchannel, etc....

My lab/testing/home production is on minitowers, like a T110, and a NAS like freenas.

Pretty much I can do most of what I can do on the system where I used to work.

YMMV
 
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