Outlook for Windows (replacement for Mail, People, & Calendar Apps) Plays Better with Google

[britechguy]

I set up the Outlook for Windows Preview (as opposed to the Outlook Preview) on my new Windows 11 machine with one of my Gmail accounts, and to my shock, not only am I getting email synchronizing but also calendar and contacts.

That's a first, and heaven knows it's long overdue. Let's see if this behavior gets carried over to Outlook 365 in the future.

 

[fincoder]

Outlook for Windows Preview (as opposed to the Outlook Preview)

They're not the same thing?

The Outlook Preview that I have (have 365 Family sub, normally use Outlook) has supported Gmail since April, now also supports Yahoo and iCloud accounts.

 

[britechguy]

No, they are not the same thing.

They look quite similar, by intent, but Outlook Preview is a skin of the Outlook Desktop App (installed Outlook) while Outlook for Windows (which also shows as a preview) is a modern app akin to the Windows Mail App on steroids.

From your description in regard to accounts, it sounds like you're using the Outlook for Windows Preview, not the Outlook Preview. Recently the former started supporting IMAP access from any provider that supports it.

Here's a screenshot of Outlook for Windows Preview (which, if turned off, goes back to the Mail App):


Note the control for "Quick Steps" which is the not-very-equivalent-but-as-close-as-MS-is-giving alternative for message rules.

 

[britechguy]

@fincoder:

What's particularly interesting is that now the Outlook Preview skin looks precisely like the Outlook for Windows one! I just switched my Outlook 365, with classic ribbons, that looked like this:


Becomes visually indistinguishable from the Outlook for Windows preview that reverts to the Mail App down to and including Quick Steps.

You can't convince me that Outlook is getting rid of Rules as we've all known them, and the version of Quick Steps that's available in the "converted from Mail" instance has zero in common with real Outlook Rules as we've known and loved them for decades.

Microsoft is not doing itself any favors by continuing to muddy the waters by using the branding "Outlook" for things that are, in reality, not related to one another other than being email clients (with other features, too).

 

[britechguy]

And I just decided to switch the Outlook Desktop App to the new preview just to see if Outlook Rule functionality showed up under Quick Steps under that instance. Well, it doesn't. When I switched back to the classic UI, I gave feedback saying that lack of Rule functionality as we've always known it is unacceptable. Here's th dialog that came up just before the switch back (emphasis mine):

If Microsoft really believes that IMAP users are going to give up the ability to create rules in the way they have for decades they've got a rude awakening coming!

 

[fincoder]

I'm still a bit confused about the two different New Outlook versions. I did the switch to New Outlook from the Mail app, and again from the Outlook desktop app, the result was identical. I'm yet to try switching from the Mail app on a PC that didn't have Outlook used previously.

I had been waiting for IMAP support before further testing and your post made me realise IMAP is now supported! I was checking the Tips section every now and then, waiting for IMAP support to be mentioned but it still isn't. However I added my IMAP account now, which is cpanel hosted and it figured out the settings automatically which was good.

I did notice the disclaimer though, that email from my IMAP provider will go to Microsoft cloud before being delivered. I find that odd and unnecessary, but I'm sure Microsoft has their private reasons

 

[callthatgirl]

Outlook PRE is going to go away as fast as Customer Manager died

 

[Mike McCall]

I have been syncing Windows Calendar with my and my wife's Google Calendar for several years. A while back I tried the new Outlook briefly to see how things might function. While I was able to see my own Google Calendar I was not able to see my wifes'. That may be fixable by now but I'm not betting on it. At that time I could only add one email address. It didn't take long for me to switch back.

We have been happy Thunderbird users for as long as I can remember. I was a big Eudora fan and was sorry to see it go.

 

[sapphirescales]

I have 12x different email addresses for different things. Outlook has always sucked royally. It's an absolutely terrible program and has barely gotten any better in the last 20 years. The fact that you have to download some proprietary software from Google to even get Outlook to sync your Google calendar is fricking ridiculous.

New Outlook is much better than regular Outlook but it's nowhere near as good as the Mail and Calendar apps for people with simple needs. I found New Outlook to be unreliable when it comes to syncing email. I'll read an email and it will show up as read, then I'll go to another computer and it won't sync it's read status. Then when I go back to the computer with New Outlook, all my read emails are now saying they're unread.

New Outlook is also ugly and has a confusing UI. It's nowhere near as bad as regular Outlook but it still sucks. I've tried every email client under the sun and I'm sad to say there just aren't any decent ones for Windows other than EMclient. Unfortunately EMclient is like $500 for 10 licenses so I'm going to be forced to pay $500 because Microsoft wants to combine the Mail and Calendar apps with Outlook to create the abomination that is New Outlook. Why can't they just leave sh*t alone?! This is why I hate "apps." If The Mail and Calendar apps were just standard Win32 programs I could just keep a copy of the installer .exe and keep using them for a lot longer until the protocols became obsolete.

All I can do is hope Microsoft actually improves New Outlook before inflicting it on everyone like a deadly plague. I'm not optimistic. It's the same piece of crap it was when I tried it 6 months ago. EMclient isn't even that great. I can't imagine spending $500 on a mediocre piece of software. If I'm forced to use EMclient I'm going to have to make my own skin/theme because it's ugly AF. Maybe I'll just use Slack or Webcatalog or something though then I'll be at the mercy of whatever ugly UI Google decides to inflict on its users. I want control over my own UI and experience. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[mmerry]

I use EMClient. The paid version allows unlimited email accounts so you should only need to pay for one. Or are you paying for several different computers? If that is the case, look at Business Pro for $248 for 10 seats.

 

[britechguy]

What I find most perplexing is that Microsoft is apparently going for a 100% unified look and feel in the UI for Outlook for Windows and in the preview for what we now know as the Outlook desktop app.

These are two different products, with two very, very different market segments. As far as I'm concerned, Outlook for Windows, which replaces the pure junk that is the Mail App (along with People and Calendar) is a simply huge improvement over what it's replacing. But the Outlook Preview that gives the same look and feel for Outlook desktop strips away tons of really important functionality that has been in use for decades. The user base for Outlook desktop will not stand for that, and Microsoft has to know that.

Why Microsoft releases certain previews (in this case the Outlook Preview for desktop) long before it is anything like it's going to have to be in the end I'll never know. It doesn't get people excited; it pisses them off. Outlook Pre remains an unmitigated disaster if you're a classic Outlook desktop app user, whether that's Outlook 365 or any of the even relatively recent predecessors to it.

 

[sapphirescales]

look at Business Pro for $248 for 10 seats.

Yeah and then have to buy it again next year? No thanks. The licenses only come with 1 year of software updates, so it's basically a subscription. My $500 estimate was for 10x lifetime licenses.

the pure junk that is the Mail App (along with People and Calendar)

The Mail and Calendar apps are excellent for people with basic needs. I personally use them myself. I don't need all the overhead and features of Outlook. The Mail and Calendar apps support Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, etc. without having to manually enter SMTP servers and crap. I have two gripes about the Mail and Calendar apps. First, if you're using multiple email addresses you can't change the sender name (it uses the same sender name for every email account). Second, when manually configuring the email settings it doesn't allow you to set a custom port, so it isn't well suited for people with weird ass email addresses like @earthlink.net or @hotpotmail.com or whatever. These apps are definitely not suited for business use but for personal email addresses using modern email services like Google or Microsoft they're excellent.

 

[Mike McCall]

(it uses the same sender name for every email account)

I had forgotten about that. I have a mix of personal and business email addresses totaling 16 in all. Outlook has never been useful to me, nor has the mail app. The only thing that has been useful is the calendar app and that's mostly because it's large enough for me to see easily.

That said, once the switch is forced I'll just continue to use Mozilla Lightning in Thunderbird as my calendar app. I can see no reason to use any of the MS products as they don't meet my needs.

 

[britechguy]

The Mail and Calendar apps are excellent for people with basic needs.

That's your opinion, and is direct opposition to my personal and professional experience, particularly with regard to the Mail App. It's never been a real email client. It's feature-poor and doesn't even rise to the level of most Android or iPhone apps for handling email.

I love eM Client, but they've not been great about improving accessibility for screen reader users nor have they made their free version useful for those with even just a couple of email accounts.

You should look at Vivaldi's email client that's part of the browser (but is it's own thing, and it's not webmail).

 

[fincoder]

when manually configuring the email settings it doesn't allow you to set a custom port

Yes it does actually.

How do I enter IMAP port numbers? - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

You're the first I've heard that doesn't hate the fact that contacts (People) is a separate app from Mail.

 

[britechguy]

You're the first I've heard that doesn't hate the fact that contacts (People) is a separate app from Mail.

He's the only person I've heard express any affection for Mail or People, and particularly the fact that these are not integrated as they had been for decades prior to the mess that is Mail, People, and Calendar came into being.

 

[sapphirescales]

It's never been a real email client.

It can do every basic thing that an email client should do. What exactly is missing?

Yes it does actually.

How do I enter IMAP port numbers? - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

Huh, must be new. I must admit I haven't tried it in years so it's possible they added the feature without me knowing. I only recommend the Mail app to people who have basic email needs and have a modern email service like Google or Microsoft.

particularly the fact that these are not integrated

You're the first I've heard that doesn't hate the fact that contacts (People) is a separate app from Mail.

But they are integrated. When you want to send an email all you have to do is start typing the person or email address you want to send to and suggestions will pop up. If you have no idea what their name or email address is there's a person icon next to the "to" field and clicking that will bring up a list of contacts. You can open the "People" app if you really want to but it's rarely necessary.

 

[britechguy]

It can do every basic thing that an email client should do. What exactly is missing?

Anything that can't filter messages into folders is not a "real" email client. And that's true even in the age of much filtering being server side.

If memory serves, and I'm not going to check, you can't arrange the order for threads to be oldest first or newest first, either, but I might be wrong about that.

We're never going to agree, and that's fine. I will not mourn the passing of these three apps for an integrated email client that's more powerful than these three are, including having direct access to the web versions of the Office apps when you need or want them. I want, at a minimum, mail, contacts, and calendar functionality in a modern email client. Tasks is optional, but really nice to have as well.

 

[sapphirescales]

Anything that can't filter messages into folders is not a "real" email client.

It's been able to do that since day 1.

you can't arrange the order for threads to be oldest first or newest first, either

Huh, I just checked and you can sort by either name or date, but you can't sort by reverse order (starting with the oldest email or by name starting with Z). I must admit I've never in my life felt the need to sort by oldest email before. The search feature is robust and powerful.

What I really like about the Mail app is that everything is instantaneous. Out of curiosity I set up Thunderbird today to check out the new UI and it took 17 hours to download all my emails and sync my calendar. That's completely unacceptable. My mailbox is approximately 5GB. When you set up the Mail app, it only syncs the newest stuff and your calendar so you can start using it in less than 30 seconds. It doesn't download anything older unless you search for it or try to bring it up. It's all in the cloud.

Thunderbird is still hideous but after spending a few hours customizing the look and feel it looks better than EMclient. Anyone know how to put a custom picture behind the reading pane so when you don't have a message open you can at least have a nice picture to look at? All this black/white (light or dark mode) hurts my eyes and all the themes do is customize the top bar. I'm on version 115 (the new redesigned UI they just came out with).

I have my inboxes set as favorites. Does anyone know how to get rid of the "inbox" in "inbox - emailaddress@gmail.com"? I don't need to know that it's an inbox. I just need to know which email address I'm switching between.

I'm still really not happy with Thunderbird though. Why should I have to have all my emails downloaded onto my computer? Isn't the purpose of IMAP so that you don't have to deal with that garbage? What is this, 1995? With all my email addresses combined I probably have 50GB worth of email. That's going to take forever to download on each of my computers. I guess I can manually transfer the profile but what a pain! I see there's a box you can uncheck so it doesn't download all your emails locally. Why is this not the default option?! Why wasn't I given a choice during the initial setup?

Email clients have always sucked but with Mail it felt like we were finally out of the dark ages. I think New Outlook is Microsoft's attempt at shedding the old legacy garbage from Outlook and having the better/more modern technology that the Mail app has under the hood, but in trying to please the Outlook crowd (who, let's be real, will never be pleased unless they get to stay in 1995), they've made the app worse than the Mail app.

You can't deny that Outlook utterly sucks when it can't even synchronize a Google calendar without going through a bunch of BS but at the same time it has 100x more features than your average computer user needs. The Mail app (and New Outlook) has no problem syncing Google calendars or any other calendar that uses modern protocols. And it's super fast, almost to the point of being instantaneous.

From a technical/under the hood standpoint, Microsoft is moving in the right direction with New Outlook but it should be available as part of Office and the Mail/Calendar apps should be the free option included with Windows. Trying to combine them will be a disaster, just like with Windows 8 when they tried to combine a phone and desktop operating system. It made a terrible phone OS and a terrible desktop OS. The same thing is happening here. Outlook needs to have the more modern stuff that the Mail and Calendar app had under the hood so email and calendar work out of the box with all email addresses, but it should retain it's more advanced UI and features for the users who need them. The Mail and Calendar app should be updated but just to match the new design language of Windows 11. I can't believe Microsoft is going to inflict New Outlook not only on Mail users but regular Outlook users too.

There's something seriously wrong with that company and has been since 2012 when Windows 8 came out. They still haven't fixed decade old bugs like when you open a folder in detailed view and every file has to disappear as it goes down the list before all the files flash and come back. Like WTF Microsoft?! I will say that "apps" seem to be more stable in Windows 11 but they're still not great and crash 10x more often than Win32 programs. And how about when windows show up blank in Task View if you haven't switched to them during that login session? Apple doesn't seem to have this problem so why does Windows?

 

[callthatgirl]

Outlook is a luxury product now. It works best with Microsoft services. Everyone else has to suffer, pay for the extras. Make the money folks, not your fault.