Planning AP configuration for large space

[HCHTech]

I'm working on a quote to add wifi coverage to a large open steel building. 150' x 175' = 26,250 sq. ft. 23' ceilings throughout - no internal partitions, only steel support pillars.

The will be a line of pallet storage about 1/3 of way down the short side extending most of the way across the space, effectively dividing the space into two smaller spaces: 50' x 175' = 8,750 sq. ft and 100' x 175' = 17,500 sq. ft.

This space will be used for vehicle storage - 2 semi tractors w/trailers, several smaller vehicles, trailers and lots of equipment. All of the vehicles will have onboard software that uses internet to report various monitoring statistics, receive updates, etc. All equipment will be inventoried using a web-based system with QR codes read by a phone app. No desktop computers or offices, only the occasional laptop. Building will not be accessed continually, so lots of security cameras inside and out.

We're a Unifi shop, so I'm thinking either 4 or 6 U6 Enterprise units should be plenty, but I've never had to cover a space this large, so I'm second-guessing that estimate. UI isn't much help, the specs for both the U6 Pro and U6 Enterprise say coverage is 1500 sq. ft. That can't be right, can it? At that rate, I would need 18 APs to cover 26,250 sq. ft... Assuming coverage is a circle, 1500 sq. ft means that circle would have a radius of 40' - that seems way to small to me.

Also, I'm concerned about the home-runs from the far APs will exceed 300' or at least be very close to the limit. If I use four and place them equidistantly, then we're talking about 100' out and 140' across and 20' down to the patch panel = 260' for the farthest one, assuming we can run things in a straight line...

If I use 6 and place them equidistantly, then 116' out and 140' across and 20' down to the patch panel = 276' total for the farthest one, assuming we can run things in a straight line. That's getting a little close to the limit for me. What is the solution here - place a switch in the middle somewhere? Ethernet booster? Since these will be PoE lines, that complicates matters as well.

Hoping for some suggestions from those who have done something similar. TIA!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

We've done warehouses, large diesel truck garages, auction houses with lots of trucks and farm equipment, ...all sounding similar to your project.

I just did a walk through of a large warehouse being renovated for a large marijuana facility....packaging it, and also on the other half of the building, a factory for making gummies and chocolates. (and the owner is an ex senator from our state...lol).

Don't plan based on max range of APs. And..resist planning "just enough" when the place is empty.

Think about range of client devices....you're mentioning a phone app. laptops. Is this a maintenance garage? Will users of client devices be working inside the cabs?

Will there be rows of shelving? Filled with "stuff"?

Always better to over plan with more APs...more density of them, dialing down the TX power, even disabling the 2.4 radio on every other or every 3rd AP.

How high is the ceiling? Normally I go for 14' up or so....so with really high ceilings...use pipe to lower to say, 30' up. (I see you said 23' ceilings) While it's good to have height in warehouses where there are "rows" 'tween tall shelving.....so the signal beams "down" better...too high will weaken the signal, since much if it goes out at angles (not directly out the the dome center). Trucks...you want over 14' to be above them...since they're typically 13'6" in height...plus additional stuff on top of the cabs. So will trailers be parked in rows? That'll cut down on width of coverage...picture those rows again.

Really hard to say how far apart...without seeing it, and sorta getting a good description of how things will be when it's completed.

80' ain't too bad of a radius...again, depends on the environment. Example...marinas...I don't like going much more that 100' apart in a grade pattern. 75' more ideal. That's to allow most boats/slips to be within line of sight/range of 2 or 3 APs at any time...and considering taller boats in neighboring slips to lower boats...and being able to penetrate down into the cabins of boats.

Warehouses can be similar in....difficulty.

So...could be as far as 8 or so APs...or could be a good dozen or more area needed.

Selection of AP...figure it'll be a nasty environment..filthy. May want to be looking at the UAP-AC-M-PRO units. I like the "breadth" of coverage of those better for large areas. Yeah they're not wifi 6...but hey they're tough.

Use the Switch-Flex to extend those ethernet runs, in the Flex enclosures to "weatherproof" 'em. Love that setup! Use a 24 Pro switch so you get the POE++ ports on the end..adopt the Flex switch...then flip it to the POE++ for that extra juice to 'em to power several M Pros.

 

[HCHTech]

Ok, thanks - that helps a lot. I'm going to do a grid layout today on paper so I can visualize it better, get real measurements on the runs, etc. I'm guessing you would place the Flex unit center in the space down one of he support pillars maybe so it was accessible without a scissor lift.

I hope it won't be necessary to drop the APs below ceiling height - that sounds like difficult construction, plus just waiting for something over-height to knock it out.

I did a walk-through yesterday, and I have a call today with the guy in charge of the trucks & equipment so I'll have more information on the actual use-case. They bought two new, specially outfitted Freightliners - and went to the factory in NC to see them being built (mostly by robots) - ha. At least I know they've got the budget for whatever I come up with.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yeah at 23'....probably 20' really....you will be fine.

Post pics up.

 

[HCHTech]

Assuming coverage is a circle, 1500 sq. ft means that circle would have a radius of 40' - that seems way to small to me.

That's what I get for posting in the evening. the RADIUS of a 1500 sq.ft. circle is 22'. The DIAMETER is 44'.

3.1416*22² = 1520 sq. ft. That seems way too small of a coverage area for planning purposes. I guess I'm used to deploying these things in an office space, not in a big open space like my current project.

@YeOldeStonecat your own example of 75' spacing means a 37.5 radius coverage circle, which equates to 4,400 sq. ft. That seems more reasonable to me, and what I might have guessed without guidance...

The UAP-AC-M-PRO units, you mean this one?


Those look like pole or wall mount, not suitable for ceiling mount - although they do have a 2000 sq. ft. coverage area - not sure how it propagates...

Anyway, assuming I use one of the saucer models and have circular propagation and place them equidistantly and assume a 75' diameter coverage area, I think I would need 9, as follows:



Does that make sense?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yup that model AP. Their pole mounts....depends what you have up in the ceiling for rafters/structure. I'd be hanging those poles upside down...so the APs would still be vertical.

Seeing more pics of what it looks like all loaded up....with just 1x row of pallets like that..I'm wondering if you can get by with 6...2x rows of 3....

 

[britechguy]

if you can get by with 6...2x rows of 3....

Which is likely. If you know that "the equipment" that needs access is consistently oriented in a certain way, and the part of "the equipment" that needs it is always pointed that way, you don't need coverage absolutely over every square inch.

Coverage where it's literally never going to be needed is a wasted asset.

 

[HCHTech]

Yup that model AP. Their pole mounts....depends what you have up in the ceiling for rafters/structure. I'd be hanging those poles upside down...so the APs would still be vertical.

How do they propagate a signal? I don't see that information in any of their specs documents. If they propagate outward from the face, then wouldn't it make sense to face them downward? Otherwise, you have to pick a direction to point them - yet another variable - haha. How would you do it?

 

[HCHTech]

Coverage where it's literally never going to be needed is a wasted asset.

Not disagreeing with you, but given the difficulty of revisiting the install to add more later if the initial guess isn't enough, combined with the relatively low cost per unit, I'd rather overbuild and guarantee it will never be a problem, than end up under-building and have to go back later to add more APs.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

They are quite 360 around the horizontal...with some degree of up/down at angles. So I'd keep them vertical.

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005212927-UniFi-Network-AP-Antenna-Radiation-Patterns

Understood about the possibility of "shooting down from the ceiling"...due to tight rows of 14' trailers. After pondering that for a minute...yeah I would probably lean towards typical ceiling mount domes. Since they have a bit more "straight down".

As for amount of APs...yeah still would have to envision what it the place will look like when it's done and in production...how those rows will be filled up, how high, how dense, etc.

 

[Metanis]

... so lots of security cameras inside and out.

Might be a factor in AP placements?