Understanding Windows PE

[Jimmyb]

Do I understand correctly?

When I boot to a Windows PE disc (or UBCD4WIN) I by pass any and all OS on hard drives .. correct?

So if I pull the hard drives, NIC cards and any other non-essential devices, I should be able to boot to the disc. But in fact this PC only gets to about 20% and then sits there. I have tried swiping out RAM still no fix. Tried different Windows PEs and no fix.

It will boot to Windows OS with hard drive in, but then if I try to access USB drives it is so slow it is impossible. Was going to check the drive using the disc but now I cannot boot the Windows PE disc.

Do I assume I have a bad CPU? Any thoughts/ input?

 

[14049752]

Do I assume I have a bad CPU? Any thoughts/ input?

You shouldn't, because you probably don't. There are numerous other hardware diagnostics that you can run, most of them better than what is included with BartPE.

 

[Jimmyb]

How would I do that if I cannot run anything? My point was, why can I not even load / run a Windows PE disk?

 

[14049752]

You shouldn't, because you probably don't. There are numerous other hardware diagnostics that you can run, most of them better than what is included with BartPE.

I'll quote myself again, so that you re-read it.

 

[iisjman07]

How would I do that if I cannot run anything? My point was, why can I not even load / run a Windows PE disk?

Linux? DOS based diagnostic tools? Manually swapping components? Knowing from experience?

why can I not even load / run a Windows PE disk?

Some machines don't like PE boot disks; occasionally I see one that'll BSOD as soon as I look at a winpe disk. More likely however is a faulty component; you say you've swapped the RAM and removed the hard drive. CPU's rarely fail, and when they do the whole machine usually turns into a doorstop.

 

[Jimmyb]

First off 14049752: No need to get snotty. If you read my post you would see a simple question. So let me re-phrase the question.

If a Windows PE disc is in fact its own operating system, what would stop a PC from loading it?

iisjman07: Thank you for your advice. Did not think to try Linux, which it did load up fine. Hiren's Boot disk loaded but did not run any of the apps. Again all this without harddrive or second CD drive and only graphics card and built in motherboard devices. Hmmmm ..video card maybe?


Experience .. 25 plus years

 

[Jimmyb]

Well it is not the video card. I have no more components to swap out

So it is not the Hard Drive. A new DVD drive running the disks.

My thought was if Windows PE loads to RAM and cannot, then bad RAM or CPU, but Linux CD loaded fine.

I am stumped.

 

[Martyn]

Even though you say you swapped memory that would be my guess.

 

[Jimmyb]

Well I re-ran Hiren and now I am doing a RAM check, so it seems DOS and Linux will run, just not Windows environment. Will see what I can uncover now.

 

[14049752]

Ok, before you read this...don't read a snotty tone into it. Read it as if I'm just explaining myself to you. Then be offended, get upset, be angry if you must.

First off 14049752: No need to get snotty. If you read my post you would see a simple question. So let me re-phrase the question.

If a Windows PE disc is in fact its own operating system, what would stop a PC from loading it?

The reason I'm so quick to get "snotty" (or appear that way) is because people ask questions, expecting an answer without doing any of their homework. That's almost exactly what it sounded like you did, in my opinion. You only asked two questions. (well, ok..three...)

Do I assume I have a bad CPU? Any thoughts/ input?

And I answered both in a very simple manner. No, you probably don't have a bad CPU because odds are against that and it doesn't even fit with the symptoms you described. And...two. My thoughts/input was that there are other hardware tests you can run other than in WinPE.

As for the rephrased question, sure there are a few reasons why Win PE wouldn't load. Could be drivers installed on the build, but it could be hardware problems. Since you're having problems with hardware in windows, I'd assume hardware....and I'd expect someone with experience to check that stuff. Especially 25 years experience you should know about things like memtest, drive fitness test, checking for bad caps, and several other things that would have been checked before asking why WinPE of all things won't boot.

 

[parker.casey]

I'm not sure if I even understand the issue ... you can't run a BartPE disk on the thing. That's true of about 20% of the computers I see. Want to rule out generic hardware issues, you boot an entirely different OS (linux) just to see if it works or if it has the same problem. Same problem is hardware, and with any experience you should know which part by then. No problem at all points to software, but not 100% accurate.

 

[Jimmyb]

Okay for sake of discussion, why cannot a Windows PE, be it Bart or any other type, boot on any computer just like a Linux Live CD?

If it is a stand alone CD / OS why should it not be able to boot?

As for my problem, yes it turned out to be a driver / hardware problem. I had installed a SATA DVD drive to replace what I had thought was a bad IDE. While trying to run some of the DOS based testing software, it would fail loading CD drivers. This got me to think that maybe it does not treat SATA the same since SATA is newer then the DOS testing programs. Linux did load.

I have since replaced the SATA with another IDE CD ROM and the Windows PE disks do boot. So even though Windows PE should be a stand alone OS, it seems to be rooted in conventional driver issues.

I am now investigating drivers as the possible reason for some of the issues I am having with this PC. Trying to find the original MOBO drivers since I had loaded drivers from Driver Pack when I re did this PC awhile back.

It just goes to show you, that no matter how much we / I think we know, there is always room to learn more. This is why I come here and hang out here. Thanks for your input.

 

[parker.casey]

Okay for sake of discussion, why cannot a Windows PE, be it Bart or any other type, boot on any computer just like a Linux Live CD?

If it is a stand alone CD / OS why should it not be able to boot?

As for my problem, yes it turned out to be a driver / hardware problem. I had installed a SATA DVD drive to replace what I had thought was a bad IDE. While trying to run some of the DOS based testing software, it would fail loading CD drivers. This got me to think that maybe it does not treat SATA the same since SATA is newer then the DOS testing programs. Linux did load.

I have since replaced the SATA with another IDE CD ROM and the Windows PE disks do boot. So even though Windows PE should be a stand alone OS, it seems to be rooted in conventional driver issues.

I am now investigating drivers as the possible reason for some of the issues I am having with this PC. Trying to find the original MOBO drivers since I had loaded drivers from Driver Pack when I re did this PC awhile back.

It just goes to show you, that no matter how much we / I think we know, there is always room to learn more. This is why I come here and hang out here. Thanks for your input.

More for the sake of understanding than just conversation (thought I certainly enjoy that part), it's not so much that PE isn't its own thing, it's more a matter of WHAT it is. It's a form of Windows, meaning it's got Windows drivers ... using something unrelated to Windows rules out driver issues from the getgo, or confirms them. It's nice to have at least three live OS's that you can boot into. Linux, OpenBSD, and Windows. I say OpenBSD rather than FreeBSD because OBSD will run on a number of toasters ... so you know the driver situation is at least different. That, and each uses a different bootloader, which makes a difference depending on hardware sometimes.

And yes ... always more to learn. The minute you decide you know it all is the minute you cease learning, which is the moment you may as well just push up the daisies.

 

[andcorptech]

Linux? DOS based diagnostic tools? Manually swapping components? Knowing from experience?



Some machines don't like PE boot disks; occasionally I see one that'll BSOD as soon as I look at a winpe disk. More likely however is a faulty component; you say you've swapped the RAM and removed the hard drive. CPU's rarely fail, and when they do the whole machine usually turns into a doorstop.

Though you are correct that they rarely fail, you are dead wrong about symptoms. I have had 2 so far this year , one which would not load into windows in normal mode but would in safe mode. The other was random BSODs. In both cases replacing the CPU fixed the problem (after painful elimination). Both machines were about 3-4 years old so im lucky i keep alot of second hand parts. I would have seen no more than 10 dead CPUs in the last 15 years of repair but most of them were not "dead" completley

 

[Laimbo]

I am also curious about his. Although winPE type disks will run with no HDD attached, it will access the HDD if it is there. For instance a win XP compiled PE disk has been known to corrupt restore points if the installed OS on the attached drive is Vista or Win7. Also if the attached drive is faulty the WinPE OS can take a long time to load while attempting to read the drive. Lastly if the computer uses AHCI mode instead of IDE or SATA Emulation mode then it will bluescreen unless you change to IDE mode in the bios. Why the drive is accessed is on my long "to research" list but hasnt been important enough to find out yet. If anyone has any insight into this it would be appreciated.

Liam.

 

[parker.casey]

I am also curious about his. Although winPE type disks will run with no HDD attached, it will access the HDD if it is there. For instance a win XP compiled PE disk has been known to corrupt restore points if the installed OS on the attached drive is Vista or Win7. Also if the attached drive is faulty the WinPE OS can take a long time to load while attempting to read the drive. Lastly if the computer uses AHCI mode instead of IDE or SATA Emulation mode then it will bluescreen unless you change to IDE mode in the bios. Why the drive is accessed is on my long "to research" list but hasnt been important enough to find out yet. If anyone has any insight into this it would be appreciated.

Liam.

The drive is mounted, as are all drives, upon boot. If you were to connect the drive after booting and mount it then, likely the same things wouldn't occur. PE is based on an environment used for installing Windows, to begin with. So when it does see hardware, it tries to configure it.