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A Look at Regulating The Computer Repair Industry
Every now and then some Computer Repair rip-off story shows up in the media and finds its way onto YouTube (1, 2, 3, 4). After the Technicians on our forums pick up their jaws from the floor at how unbelievable some of the techs in these videos are, the discussion always turns to regulation of the computer repair industry.
There are Information Technology certifications which are used to regulate those who are being hired by someone else since are used to show that a technician has a basic understanding of certain skills. However, it doesn’t actually mean that the certified person can actually fix a computer. I have personally seen well qualified technicians who were absolutely useless while non-certified technicians were absolutely brilliant.
If you are self employed, you obviously don’t need certifications to get a job since you are your own boss. So who’s going to certify and regulate the self employed and how will it be done? Should we even regulate the computer repair industry at all?
One technician on the Technibble forums proposed a system similar to how plumbers, carpenters and electricians have to be licensed. This regulatory body would require technicians to pass a series of rigorous testing and have a minimum of 5 years industry experience that has to be on paper with the names and numbers of past employers. Similar to applying for a job, once you are all checked out and verified, you get an ID card which signifies that you are approved by your government to do business in the IT field. I’m sure you have all seen those “only used a licensed electrician” ads on TV and this setup would be the same.
To make more computer repair businesses adhere to the standards set by this computer regulatory body, the public will be made aware of this group by large scale news media, signs and public services announcements so regular consumers have the option to see the computer businesses ID card.
While this is probably the best regulatory idea I have heard so far, there is another experienced computer technician on our forums said that he has been running for 3.5 years, started up right out of university with no prior experience and this setup would make him unable to attain the license the other technician is suggesting.
Another great point that the second technician mentioned was the dodgy computer technician shown in these two videos (1, 2) could have more than 5 years experience and knew exactly how to fix the computers on the TV program. His skills may also be good enough to pass the mandatory exams which means he has met all the necessary requirements to become a fully fledged Computer Technician. Being “licensed” his clients will trust him more and he can continue to scam them to his hearts content.
A third technician recommended the idea of a reputation system rather than a regulation system. There could be a website where computer businesses are listed and their clients can leave feedback on the service they received from the technician/shop. Unfortunately I can foresee problems with this system as well. How does the website know if the person leaving feedback was even customer of that technician or store and not their competition trying to give them a bad name? Also, with feedback people tend to use it to complain rather than praise. There are many businesses that I deal with that I am very pleased about, but I don’t hop on the internet posting feedback about them because its a non issue for me. However, I would go online and make it known if I was ripped off so the feedback on this reputation site would be skewed.
All three of these technicians agreed that its very difficult to setup a system that’s infallible that wont affect legitimate technicians in some way.
Now, lets say that we do find a way to regulate the industry that is fair to all technicians; the problem is that it can become over-regulated. My father is a freelance draftsman and he occasionally does some work for companies that develop medical components and this group of companies are now massively over-regulated. When this client first started up about 20 years ago he had his own work processes in developing these components.
A few years later a medical regulatory institution was formed by a small section of the government to cover the development of such components. At this point, the medical regulatory institution had very little power over the businesses but over the years laws were passed, fat politicians shook some hands and this toothless tiger began to grow some teeth. Even more laws have passed since to the point of where it is hurting the businesses.
For his medical products business to remain certified under these new regulations, he has to pass inspections of his factory every now and then by evaluators sent by this regulatory institution. He works hard at making sure he complies to everything but it has reached a point where it has become almost tyrannical. Just recently, he lost a demerit point in an inspection because he had a steel ruler in the factory that was not certified by this group and therefor it was an unauthorized measuring device. A freaking steel ruler..
I can see the computer repair industries regulations getting tighter and tighter as various horror stories arise and politicians have knee-jerk reactions and put in even more rules. Eventually we’ll have to make a hard drive image of each computer before we touch it, even if we are doing something basic, we could even be required to keep a copy of that backup for a few years, pass police checks and get our custom computer builds tested against industry standards.
So, we can have regulation that weed out the computer technician cowboys but we run the risk of being unfairly or over-regulated. What do you guys think?
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This is why I run my shop alone. I would be afraid that anyone I hired would not do the work the way I do it and go the extra mile to fix something. I have a computer now with an error I never saw before. I could just reinstall the operating system and tell the customer there was no hope, which it may come to, but I prefer to get to the root of the problem not just do what is the easiest!
BIG ol’Can O Worms! I agree with Heriberto. Especially in the IT industry, we (tech and non-tech alike) have the ability to forge alot of stuff, documents, licenses etc and make it look real.
I however would like to see more of an industry ‘union’ or ‘association’ (whatever you want to call it) that you could join to protect the interests of IT personnel (employees) and help/promote owner/operator shops like us. I’m on both sides of that fence, an employee (netadmin) and Owner/operator.
Take a look at some major industry out there, some have “associations” that consumers, corporations and buyers can look at to find the “right guy/girl” for the job AND protect the interests of those in the industry.
I wouldn’t know where to start something like that, but I would definately want to be a part of it.
Just remember that the PC industry isn’t they only one that has some shady businesses. I’ve seen a lot of shady business with contractors, relaters and others.
I think that just like other industry’s, you get what you pay for. Most of the shady business is done on the cheap side where everyone wants a deal. Customers can always look up business reviews on the internet and see what people think of them.
I think going forward, it’s going to be harder for shady operations to stay in business. Places like Angie’s List, Google Local, Yahoo Local, etc, all offer user reviews that can help expose the best companies and help shame the bad ones. No system is perfect, but trying to regulate a skill set like PC technician is going to be incredibly difficult. On top of that, who really wants to do the regulating? What do they get out of it?
I don’t think there’s EVER a balance that can be set that is fair to all involved, you just have to hope that the regulation in place isn’t so overbearing as to stiffle legitimate business practices.
I wouldn’t mind seeing some form of regulation put in place, in order to standardise a lower-end basis of ‘expertice’ for a professional (if you can’t tell RAM from a wi-fi card or explain how jumpers can do different things, you shouldn’t be a tech) as currently any person who people feel SHOULD be able to fix their computer is able to run around, doing sub-standard work…
However, how do you test for basic-compitency? Do all tech’s have to pass the A+, CCNA, MCP’s etc… It unfortunately isn’t like plumbing, where a lack of basic knowledge is instantly recognisable by water spraying all over your living room; I’ve met 12 year olds who know more than tech’s I used to work with, which makes a standardised test difficult to devise at best and impossible to rely on at worst…
It’s a issue nobody is touching for a reason, least of all lack of community interest.
I think going forward, it’s going to be harder for shady operations to stay in business. Places like Angie’s List, Google Local, Yahoo Local, etc, all offer user reviews that can help expose the best companies and help shame the bad ones.
If all clients were smart enough to use services like this, they’d be able to google their way out of 90% of their own issues… Which they can’t. Most clients use the flyer they got, the word of mouth from a friend, the local yellow pages, not internet review sites.
No system is perfect, but trying to regulate a skill set like PC technician is going to be incredibly difficult. On top of that, who really wants to do the regulating? What do they get out of it?
Amen to the first point, but who wants to do the regulating? Well, if enough people felt like they were being worked over by dodgy techs, over-charged for lacklustre work, enough of them would talk to their local members of parliament which would trickle down into larger political arenas etc ad nausium…
If it were a big enough issue for the general population, it would eventually make it onto a political agenda, the lack-thereof in our real world should be enough to make us question whether the issue actually exists or whether it’s just media sensationalism that fuels this firey debate.
My guess is if the business got regulated, then we would see more shady businesses-like a black market dedicated to just computer repairs.
If I’m licensed does that mean I can charge triple for everything just like plumbers and electrician?
Great insights Bryce. It’s easy to point to one solution as the easy answer, but when thought is put into it, there really is no easy answer.
I’m not opposed to licensing as long as it’s not required to do business. In other words, you can have both licensed and non-licensed techs working in the same town. It’s up to the consumer to choose which tech to hire.
More than that, and you run the risk of over-regulating. The great thing about the computer repair business is that it’s still a very grass-roots industry, making it easy for entrepreneurs to enter the field and be successful. Hopefully a few bad apples don’t spoil it for the rest of us.
I remember back in the sixties my dream when I grew up was to be a TV repair man. My uncle did this free lance and he got $35.00 minimum just to take the back off the TV. Then the parts and labor charges started. Well, how many TV repair men do you see around now? Not too many.
Does anyone think that the PC repairman is going to go the same way? PC prices are way down from what they were in the eighties and nineties and you get a lot more powerful PC as well. I know, there will always be people who are intimidated by computers and need someone else to do the work.
Think about the inkjet printers. For about $50.00 (give or take 20), you can get a multifunction printer, copier, scanner, and fax machine. Now I know the companies make their money on the ink, not the printer, but when it goes out of warranty, it is not worth it to get it repaired. It is a throwaway! Just get a new one for roughly the same price. Your new printer runs out of ink. Frequently the ink costs more than you paid for the printer. Again, get a new one. With the new one, you get another warranty period and guess what, you get ink!
What’s my point? The low end PCs and laptops may not be worth getting repaired anymore. A lot of people are discovering on-line data storage and apps. For those that have not, there may be a market for data recovery when the PC or laptop crashes.
The future of the business is changing and we had better be ready to adapt.
Perhaps the money is in software tutoring or data recovery.
Oh yes, the question was about certification. I like others have seen highly certified MCSEs or Novell CNEs not know how to change our a power supply on a PC and I have seen less than honest techs as well. I am in favor of a certification or some sort. Perhaps an add-on cert to the A+ cert. An A+ Gold?
Displaying with the A+ Gold cert would be a web site and/or phone number to report to COMPTIA or some other national policing organization. Both compliments and complaints could be sent here.
having been in the computer industry for about 12 years and worked in the provate the public sectors for employer and for myself I think my work speaks for itself. Like with anything else , mechanics ,carpenters,electricians. The consumer needs to be educated. and the service provider doesnt need or shouldnt be regulated. who will regulate it? what dues do we pay.. is there a rating system or is it all or nothing . I beleive that the parket takes care of itself. and we dont need “government” bloated in our business ..which generally works up to someone being able to forge certifications if they really want to get in on the business. Dishonest people will find a way around it. and the lord knows we dont need any more government bloat. or some board or over pretensious folks to pass judgement on us. if there is unfair business being done there are already avenues for recourse. and like you said in your article, certification doesnt = capability or fairness or honesty. it just means you passed a test.
Like dhrandy said,
As long a people want something for nothing this kind of thing is going to happen.
I have not looked at the video but in this current world of instant news it seems like something that is rare can turn into a frenzy. Back before Internet and satellite TV something small never really made it out of a local media market.
My point is even the greatest tech to ever live could make a mistake, and if someone gets enough people they know to make a complaint the person will get a bad reputation over a simple mistake that they were willing to correct but the end user refused to let them correct it.
Bottom line is every since man has existed one person has tried to rip off or take advantage of another. This will never change no matter how many regulations that exist.
Always remember regulations are like locks, they keep the honest people honest but do nothing to stop the dishonest.
You guys are crazy, certifications and regulations would mean the industry will have to pay people 10X more for their education and , licensing, and experience, $150.00-$200.00 an hour? You all are nuts……..
A used car sales person can lie, cheat, and otherwise pillage someone and it is accepted practice, unfortunately. A computer repair guy lies, cheats, and otherwise pillages someone and it makes the news. That in and of itself tells me that regulation is not needed when what is accepted practice-unfortunately- in one industry is seen as a big deal in the other one, I don’t think we need sweeping regulation. If the government can’t keep wall street swindlers from screwing everybody then how can we really believe they can protect people from a few scrupulous techs? Stop the big brother madness…. expose the bad ones, promote the good ones and keep Washington the h&%l out of another field to meddle in. Please.
Unfortunately you will never get rid of the shady side of things. Just like the auto repair business there are good honest techs and there are national chains that will steal you blind. Buyer beware.
JT,
not the author or guys commenting here are nuts, the system is.
Either way, if regulation happens I am out of a job, that’s sure. I take pride in my work, go the extra mile and then sometimes some but I am human. So I will never know everything.
Look at how much damage (some!) doctors and the pharmaceutical and the food industry can do; because they are regulated?
I’m not saying that there are not good techs out there, however, more regulation does mean higher prices and hat means costs will soar. If you think there are hacks out there now, wait until that passes. Then every tom, dick and harry will be trying to make a fast buck on the side for 75-100 an hour. At least now you can find someone decent by word of mouth.
i decided to write as i’am talking off of the mind. who’s going in my pocket.we talking about regulating, but regulating what.ethics,personal choice.how hungry a person is,what they choose do to answer that hunger. every industry have this same question and regulate it. there still people doing it with a big question mark???.lol madoff got away with billions under regulation.the cost of being a tech.people only know you when they want deal,adding to that cost will close more doors.we can’t regulate people and their personal ethics.most of us love what we do,which guide us in all that we do and touch.
It all comes down to integrity and character. You CANNOT regulate those things. History has proven that time and time again. It is similar to the saying “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns”.
The only thing this type of regulation will do is convince the honest technician trying to make a living, that it is time to try something else instead. It will cause those running a business to raise their prices so much that it will no longer be cost-effective to fix a PC – it will be cheaper to buy a new one. As mentioned earlier, it will also exclude some folks that should be included just by nature of their paths to that point. E.G., I have 20 years IT experience, but it has not been PC repair (for a living). I have always enjoyed it and been good at it, so when my company laid me off after 12 years, I decided it was time to take a new direction. Some attempt at regulation would be a boon for the manufacturers such as DELL, HP and IBM. You cannot legislate or regulate morality or integrity!
Plumbers and carpenters have the same problem; despite regulations, you can find some of them that will rip you off stating that they need to do a lot of work and will charge you a lot of money. As someone else said before, if we are regulated then we can charge a lot of money like plumbers, or even doctors or dentists (how do these “professionals” sleep at night? seriously).
Another guy said, and I totally agree, that we are humans, we all make mistakes, but that does not mean that we are bad or want to rip a client off. The medical industry makes a lot of mistakes, and these mistakes can cost lives, not data, LIVES !! And they are well regulated.
Finally, I believe this is a matter of education on the customer’s side: if they do not ask how much they have to pay, or they do and they do not care, they are allowing this kind of bad thecs to take advantage. They should ask for a second opinion before saying “ok, go ahead”, and they definitely are responsible for the data they have in the computer, not the tech.
Conlusion: regulate but let non-regulated to work so clients can have a choice. And educate customers.
LESS government, not more.
@GA: The only thing this type of regulation will do is convince the honest technician trying to make a living, that it is time to try something else instead. It will cause those running a business to raise their prices so much that it will no longer be cost-effective to fix a PC – it will be cheaper to buy a new one.
Exactly. We’d legislate ourselves right out of business. This is but only one of the reasons why this whole regulatory thing is a bad idea.
Hi everyone,
Why not to change the peoples opinion by showing them how to spot good technician, I don’t have the equipment but would like to see who ever could, try to make few shows and let the world see there are a lot of good technician out there that do the job right even if they don’t drive BMW
Hello,
I retrained to IT in 1999. I went to a technical school for the training and the first thing that we did before we graduated was test for the CompTia A+ exams. I have mine and since have tested and passed several others.
A+ is the core of PC knowledge and repair, software in one part and hardware in the other part of the test. Most companies won’t hire you if you don’t have A+ CERTIFICATION. They consider this to be the basic test.
Why not the same for the computer repair tech to get his business license?
Some CERTIFICATION! Just a thought.
I have earned mine and I love this career.
There should be an online rating system, with extensive comments. Bryce, your complaint about rating systems is that people only post negative comments. Well, then the best techs are the ones with fewer comments. A tech should have several different rating points such as pricing, quality of work, professionalism, respect, etc. Through a formula, each of these ratings are averaged based on the number of complaints received over a certain amount of time, meaning that a tech that has been in business for 15 years who might get 15 negative comments is rated the same as one who has been in business for 3 years with 3 negative comments, and both would have a better score than the one who has been in business for 1 year with 2 negative comments. Thus, the negativity of the rating site is resolved. Also, to give a tech some time to adjust to the new environment, ratings are not displayed publicly until they have been in business for 1 year. Now the public can see all the techs’ scores and ratings in an unbiased way and decide for themselves who they want to hire.
The idea of “regulation” mandating a certain baseline of education or experience wholly misses the point. Enforcing requirements for minimum levels of education would only guarantee that at some past point in time a technician “KNEW” how to fix things. With ever advancing technology and lack of verified continuing use of that knowledge, it is meaningless. Unused knowledge fades from memory, so simply passing a certification exam is no guarantee that a tech didn’t cram for the exam and then forget 80+% of what was on the exam. The certification then, proves NOTHING about current abilities.
As for requiring experience as a metric for regulation…what standardized skill set demonstrates equally that a person is qualified for their particular job? If a tech working primarily on fixing copiers or printers has no experience with setting Master/slave HDD jumper settings…or can’t specify whether IRQ 1 or 12 corresponds to the keyboard…does that tell you anything at all about their ability to fix the equipment that they primarily work on? Of course not! The point is…there is no universal set of skills that mandated experience levels can be based upon. A “one size fits all” type of approach, at best, could only confirm that a technician knows the basics…not the specifics needed to perform well at their particular job.
I think the overall problem with regulation (aside from the cost that previous posters here have mentioned) is that there is an unspoken….and incorrect….assumption here. Namely, that these “rip off” cowboys are all suffering from a lack of knowledge. I’m sure that this may be true in some “Geeky” organizations that have virtually no prerequisites to hiring…but that is not the larger problem. The bigger problem here is an ethical one. Just because a tech knows what to do, is no guarantee that they will not be lazy and just sell a customer an assortment of the most likely components because replacement is easier than troubleshooting. Education does not prevent dishonesty either.
My opinion is that those expose videos are the best possible form of self regulation. They are a wonderful marketing tool for small repair businesses. If it wasn’t for the copyright issues involved, I’d burn a whole collection of those to a CD and give it to every customer who walked through the door. Let them be skeptical…let them seek second opinions! An attitude of “caveat emptor” benefits honest businesses. If fellow tech’s get caught doing wrong….then quite frankly…they deserve to get their noses rubbed in it and have their business suffer.
Having worked in the servicing industry ranging from lighters to central heating, electrics to electronics and currently computers!
I know its is a ever changing world out there,
My first computer was a Motorola 6800 scratch build (including hand made pcbs. Programs stored on cassette tape
When I started repairing TVs the colour set was worth more than the van that delivered it
Most people will go for the cheaper option buy new if it’s more economical than the repair. You can now buy a colour TV for less than the cost of the food you throw away!!
Now days as the cost of the pc falls, and many people only store their downloads which they can replace on a new machine.
But they do want their photos and emails back
As far as the videos showed one of the guys used the “replace, replace until the fault is found technique. And keep the old parts for resale.
Personally I hate using second hand parts, except to use as a known worker! For testing. Because if you replace everything you must fix it.
How ever I have found in my more than 40 years of experience:-
1) Man made faults are always the hardest to diagnose.
E.g. graphics cards now have additional clips to prevent a previously common fault of heat creep.
2) The skills needed for business and domestic customers vary wildly.
Yes a Microsoft engineer in a large organisation is going to see the same machines all day long. Where as a domestic engineer more often than not finds every thing different to that which was explained on the telephone, e.g. the computer is the monitor and the base unit is the modem!!
All this aside there are some nasty pieces of work out there and some chancers.
But persevere my lad and ladettes remember as my dad said “be honest, be genuine, and above all don’t be greedy.
Also don’t forget regulation only increases the cost for the honest
Seezya Les
I didn’t find anything for my state either. California has all sorts of different laws.
We already have government regulation in the USA!
Most small computer companies don’t know this and when they screw a customer is when most find it out. And you can tell they don’t know, by the comments listed here.
It’s called: Consumer Affairs.
It regulates electronic repairs, the selling of support services, and more with our industry.
If you are turned in by a consumer for anything, they investigate and fine the computer company. And if you are found to not have a license and a consumer files a complaint about you, they can fine you 2000.00 up front for not having a license.
And you have to pay for a license yearly between 165.00 to over 200.00. depending on if you offer service contracts.
We are licensed, and you should be to if you work with home computers.
My 2 cents
Mike
Mike,
That actually varies state by state. My state, for example, does not require any sort of license like that. There’s a long list of industries/jobs (plumbers, electricians, accountants, doctors, security guards, architects, etc….) but nothing pertaining to or related to computer repair.
Well… I’ll admit, in the computer repair business I am relatively new. Averaging about 7 months experience. On the other hand, I’ve worked on and repaired computers for fun, researched BSODs, Upper/Lower Filter problems, etc. for nearly my entire life. I’m only 18 and I’ve seen people with 2-3 times the experience in the business and even my age have less technical knowledge. So, the 5+ years of experience makes sense in some aspects, but how would someone just like me provide documentation of their knowledge being that they were either self-taught, or taught by there tech-savvy uncle just to fix their own computer after it’s innumerable crashes?
@Mike B
“10+ years as a tech and I have seen and continue to see dodgy work done by so called pros who can’t be bothered to do a decent job.”
Agreed.
“Accreditation only works if you have some way of enforcing the rules that govern the accreditation in the first place. A uni degree/Cisco/Microsoft/A+/TAFE etc just proves your good at passing exams.”
Also agreed.
“Practical experience counts for more than any qualification will ever do.”
Also agreed as well.
@Everyone Else….
If WE know this, why then does HR @ a company you want to work for, look at certifications, and when they do look at them do they know and understand what they are looking at exactly?
I doubt that Marcy in HR understands what EXACTLY a CCNA is and does, or Linux+, etc. The system is broken and we need to interview with the Director of IT, not HR. THAT is part of the problem, but we must go through HR first. Now, even though we are mostly self-employed techs here, the above still affects our industry.
Adding onto this, I am curious regarding certifications…. of the people that passed the tests to get them, how many of those certified people have ACTIVE and VALID certifications? For example, a CCNA has an expiration date right on the piece of paper. MCSE must be constantly updated. A+ must not be renewed, but still, c’mon, that’s equal to 6 months benchwork. A+ is a nice “add-on”, but it’s not a main cert to get.
If the established system of certifications is broken as it appears to be, how then can the industry be regulated successfully?
It can’t be…because the current system isn’t regulated. There is no agency that I know of that checks to make sure all certs obtained are still valid.
One dirty little secret is that a a lot of the arguments for regulation in any industry are motivated by the desire to erect barriers to competition.
The suggestion the forum contributor put forth for rigorous testing plus five years of industry experience would serve little real purpose other than to protect long-established businesses from newcomers.
Five years experience? Oh c’mon! Yes, our work is technical, but it’s not like it’s rocket science. I know our job doesn’t require anywhere near that – and I’ve been in this business since 1989 and trained many technicians over the years.
Somebody who’s bright and motivated can pick up 90% of what he or she will need in under a year. Another year’s experience will teach them the remaining 10%.
But here’s the real rub – once they get all that experience, they’ll only wind up using about a third of what they’ve learned on a daily basis. The rest of what they know will probably only be needed once or twice a year if that.
Talk to any tech, and the biggest complaint you’ll get is how bored they usually are dealing with the same support issues over and over. I can’t speak for everyone, but I receive maybe one or two support requests per year that I find really challenging and interesting – and where I really get to use my experience and education.
The rest of the time it’s just the “same-old same old.”
One thing I’ve always found interesting is that when somebody pushes for a new law or regulation, it’s intended to apply to somebody else, rather than the person who wants it. Nobody ever seems to write a regulation that applies to themselves unless they already meet the requirements. I suspect that forum comment came from someone who has at least that much experience.
Some regulation may be needed in our industry, but not such that it does little more than bring back the old guild systems.
Just my tuppence.
Votre —
I am the one whom made the 5 year minimum suggestion. I have well over the proposed required experience. I also am not afraid to admit I learn new things all of the time. I don’t limit myself or my company to just the repair side of things. We do engineering as well, and network security + linux/UNIX. For you to make those accusations seems unfair. I’d love for the things others, and myself propose to directly be attributed to my business. I don’t expect anything less than 5 years work/school experience in any techs we hire. Though, I certainly couldn’t propose that everyone would have to have at least the same years experience as me, that would get rid of probably 75% of the industry. I’ve been doing it a long while now, so your assumption of the 5 year rule is wrong in that sense.
10+ years as a tech and I have seen and continue to see dodgy work done by so called pros who can’t be bothered to do a decent job.
Accreditation only works if you have some way of enforcing the rules that govern the accreditation in the first place. A uni degree/Cisco/Microsoft/A+/TAFE etc just proves your good at passing exams.
Practical experience counts for more than any qualification will ever do.
Kay-C — That’s exactly the point. If you can’t provide past work experience, how can you prove that you are capable of not doing dodgy work? You’re still young, you have little real world experience, yet you are out and about fixing real peoples computers, charging for it, because your uncle taught you or you taught your-self by reading? Yet, if you mess something up for your lack of experience, who gets stuck with the irate customer? People like me. Running a business is hard enough work, we don’t need irate customers screaming in our faces because they were not smart enough to hire a seasoned pro the first time. Now, if they knew that you weren’t a pro, and they still chose to deal with you, and you messed it up, I highly doubt they would be as angry, because they knew what they were getting themselves into in the first place.
ACG-
I’m sorry if I offended you. Perhaps I worded my comments a bit more strongly than required. The part of the original post I was responding to said (my emphasis added):
This regulatory body would require technicians to pass a series of rigorous testing and have a minimum of 5 years industry experience that has to be on paper with the names and numbers of past employers.
– whereas you are saying:
I don’t expect anything less than 5 years work/school experience in any techs we hire.
Introducing that work/school qualification makes it much more reasonable.
But I will still stand by my underlying contention that most of what I have heard proposed would do little other than to protect the interests of existing businesses.
Like you, we also don’t restrict our business to the repair side of things. Repair is actually the smallest part of our business. We primarily do network design; server planning, installation and support; technology progression planning – and technical support for Windows, Macintosh, and Linux environments.
I have hired and worked with technicians whose backgrounds ranged from ‘self-taught’ up to ubergeeks with multiple vendor certifications and graduate level engineering degrees.
And one thing I have learned, is that certifications aren’t all that reliable an indicator of how well a person will be able to perform on a job. Nor do formal degrees.
And when it comes to experience, one old adage has proven itself true more often than not:
Some people have 20 years of experience. Most people have 2 years worth of experience repeated 10 times.
———–
But here’s an interesting question which may make all this moot:
Who exactly is suggesting industry certification and regulation? Is it the industry – or the clients?
The reason I ask is because I have never had a client that was all that interested in certifications or ‘years of experience.’ (More than one potential client bluntly told us they could care less about ours when we included that information as part of our sales presentation.)
However, all of them were extremely interested in our business references. Who else did we do work for? What did we do for them? Who could they call to discuss our performance with?
Many of them also ran a ‘D&B’ on us just to make sure we were a legitimate and solvent company. (Amazing what a credit report can tell you about a company’s overall integrity.)
So, from my business experience, customers don’t really seem to give a hoot or holler about regulations or certifications. They conduct their selection of an IT support provider the same way they do any other vendor – via references and background checks.
So to get back to my earlier question – do the clients want some sort of industry certification – or do we?
I think the answer is that some of us,/i>, rather than the customers, do.
And if that’s the case, then the next question becomes: why?/i>
@Nick
If politicians do forget and do compare us to plumbers, than I am going to route the sewage into their office. Of course that may not work since a lot of sewage already originates from there anyway.
If WE know this, why then does HR @ a company you want to work for, look at certifications, and when they do look at them do they know and understand what they are looking at exactly?
I doubt that Marcy in HR understands what EXACTLY a CCNA is and does, or Linux+, etc. The system is broken and we need to interview with the Director of IT, not HR. THAT is part of the problem, but we must go through HR first.
Marcy in HR does not understand – or want to understand – any of this.
What she is looking for is a simple label or a metric she can put on an application to show she asked the right questions and (this part is very important) wasn’t acting in a discriminatory manner towards the applicant.
Hopefully, there will even be checkboxes on her form for exactly what qualifications you do have. That’s ideal (to her mind) because having something with a checkbox must be important to somebody, so Marcy (and her ilk) don’t need to know any more than that.
And if they ask everyone the exact same yes/no question, they can’t be accused of discriminating against an applicant:
Discriminatory: “Let’s talk about your background. How well do you believe your education and previous work experience will allow you to perform your job here?”
Non-discriminatory: “Do you hold any of the following – CCIE? CCIP? CCSP? MCSE?…no? Hmmm…”
In a way, it almost works against us. It just provides a convenient label to hang on us by people that don’t know anything about what we do – but should.
I asked a client that was interested in certifications why they were so important. She told me they weren’t as far as her company was concerned. But they had a major customer who only wanted certified people working on their projects. When I asked why this customer wanted ‘certs’, she said “Because I think their major customer does…”
Vicious circle?
Certifications are time-consuming, and in many cases (i.e. Cisco) expensive to acquire. Usually the only people that have them are people who worked for large corporations who paid for them to get certified.
So unless you have deep pockets, or work for somebody that does, getting certified may not always be an economically viable option. Especially if you are working to support a family.
ACG-
Running a business is hard enough work, we don’t need irate customers screaming in our faces because they were not smart enough to hire a seasoned pro the first time.
———–
Disagree. We do need irate people who have been burned by somebody else. In this economy, probably more so than ever.
Irate prospects usually become a great customers once we show them what real professional service is all about.
It just takes a little more work on our part to turn them around.
I can thank people’s bad experiences with a major national chain for ‘giving’ my company many of our current ‘small business’ customers.
You could NEVER compare us to plumbers, electricians, etc. unless you are talking about working on government computer systems.
The deal with state certifications for plumbers, electricians, and such is ONLY to ensure a little thing called *building code* is understood and hopefully followed.
Keep up talk like this and some politicians somewhere WILL forget the above reasons and start actually comparing us to plumbers; then we WILL be up the proverbial feces creek without a paddle.
Any time the government gets involved, they inevitably broad brush and wipe the little guys under the table. I’ve seen it over and over again in other businesses and private schools.
Often, it’s not about protecting the consumer, it’s about another source of revenue and new levels of bureaucracy.
I have a growing business BECAUSE my customers are happy and send me referrals, not because I scam them. BTW, I know several “certified idiots” who look great on paper, but couldn’t keep a job more than 3 days in the real world.
I don’t have the answer to this problem, but generally speaking, government isn’t it.
Like the old saying… “We’re from the IRS. We’ve come to help you.” Uh-huh. Right.
I agree with Ron and Perry Less Government not more. Lets let the market (consumers) decide who stays in business and who doesn’t. If you do good work and are honest you get referrals and more business. It is as the saying goes “Caveat emptor” – “Let the buyer beware” just practice personal responsibility and some common sense and you shouldn’t get screwed in most circumstances. If you do get scammed tell everyone you know about the business that ripped you off and ask them to tell everyone they know and then learn from it and move on.
Just my 2 cents.
@Scott,
Thanks for the support.
One thing is for sure, we certainly “aren’t too big to fail” and getting billions upon billions of dollars in bailout money – and then issuing bonuses and going on vacation ala AIG.
100 years ago 90% of the people owned their own businesses and now 90% work for someone else who does. I don’t know about anyone else on this board, but I see a real problem with that.
To extend my train of though even further – and beyond the scope of just business and into personal life, I don’t see as many people taking personal responsibility for themselves. They expect someone to bail them out.
We legislate away our freedoms on a daily basis, and now with the government buying up debt and gaining more control over financial entities such as banks, we are on a slippery slope to Socialism. Anyway, I will end my off-topic (sort of off-topic) rant.
NOW is the time for us to excel and propser because we can survive and at least START to thrive when all of the big businesses like G**k S*uad are struggling. B*st B*y’s retail has dropped off 74%. I have been liad off 2x in the last 7 months and am now ramping up my part-time business into full-on frontal assault mode.
Who is with me?
Basically this is a divide between the haves and the have nots. No one is suggesting that certification and regulation will eliminate bad technicians. The goal is to reduce the amount of bad technicians. The reason why we do not wish to be regulated is very simple. Many of us don’t feel that the IT profession is a serious one. Accountants, Plumbers, Electricians, Hairstylist all have regulating bodies. These bodies exist to protect the public and have the secondary effect of elevanting the profession. Nobody takes IT seriously. Do accountants do more than us, is their profession better than ours. A friend of mine had gotten into this discussion with me and he said that IT isn’t that important to be regulated.
Gentleman the system is broken. Why not take that some idea to the doctor or clinic you go to. Let the buyer beware. What a horrible idea. This doesn’t mean that bad doctors or nurses don’t get into practice but I know that it definitely makes it difficult for bad ones to enter.
Microsoft had done studies that they show that certified professions make less calls to the company for support related issues. They are able to support the network better. Certification raises the bar for everyone. Without it anybody can, and will, call themselves a technician.
@Edward,
Ed, I’ve been using PCs before Windows existed, and I’ve never needed to call Microsoft for anything — ever.
I just found out from my daughter who graduated recently that (at least here) they (the colleges) are including (for free) IT certifications right along with the 4 year degree. Soon enough the MCSE and many other certs will be even more worthless because everyone who graduates college will have one.
…but there is only one way to get experience.
@Edward
Basically this is a divide between the haves and the have nots. No one is suggesting that certification and regulation will eliminate bad technicians. The goal is to reduce the amount of bad technicians. The reason why we do not wish to be regulated is very simple. Many of us don’t feel that the IT profession is a serious one. Accountants, Plumbers, Electricians, Hairstylist all have regulating bodies. These bodies exist to protect the public and have the secondary effect of elevanting the profession. Nobody takes IT seriously.
————-
You’re making an awful lot of claims with very little to back it here.
It’s not a question of haves and have nots. I bounced this off of our local IT consultants group, and they were in agreement with me that certifications and regulation of the industry (by clueless legislative bodies) would create more negative unintended consequences than any benefit to be gained. (BTW: All of us in this group have certifications and degrees in spades. So here’s one bunch of “haves” that don’t agree with you.)
Furthermore, I don’t see where you get off saying we don’t see our profession as a ‘serious’ one. We’re quite serious about our profession where I’m from. Maybe we just don’t get as pompous and self-righteous about it as some do.
I also don’t think you will find widespread agreement among people ‘in the profession,’ nor among their clients that “the system is broken.” Broken how? Just because “a friend” views the IT industry negatively, he only conclusion that can be made is that everybody is in agreement with him?
If anything is broken in this country, it’s the regulation mechanisms themselves. Banks, investment companies, mortgage providers,mutual and hedge funds are all heavily regulated. So are realtors and real estate brokers. As are doctors, And teachers. And a host of other professions.
Pick up the paper each day and take a look at who’s being hauled into court for unprecedented violations of laws and regulations. How many IT consultants do you see listed among all those attorneys, brokers, fund managers, doctors, teachers, clergy and other so-called professionals?
To your statement:Gentleman the system is broken. I can only reply: Sir, it is the regulatory system that is broken. And your arguments are flawed.
@Edward
Look at banks. They are regulated to all heck, and well, we know how well THEY are doing right now, don’t we?
Who regulates the regulators?
What is needed to properly regulate the IT industry in my opinion comes down to a couple key items.
1. Company/Individual must be tested/certified to be knowledgeable in the IT field of choice.
2. Company/Individual must be ethical and honest. Willing to fix issues on the cases were the tech just had a bad day.
3. A visual way for customers to recognize a guaranteed company over a non-guaranteed company
4. A fallback system were companies can specify who gets their customer if they were unable to resolve the issue or are away from business, say on holidays or something.
5. Additional business benefits to companies to be in the guarantee group instead of non-guaranteed.
6. Repercussions to a company for being un-ethical, or continually going against the good business practice guidelines that are the reason for having a service guaranteed group.
I believe, like most I have read, that Government regulation would be nothing more then a strangle hold on the industry and would end up causing the loss of businesses in practice and a raise in rates to the point of making computers cheaper to replace then to get serviced for repair. I also believe that having some form of certification system that is based mainly on a companies time in the industry or level of professional certifications would make it almost impossible for new companies to be formed or new IT professionals to enter into the industry. And lets admit it, the young guys are the ones with the energy to keep this industry running 10-20 years down the road, if they have to needlessly struggle too much at the beginning they might just decide to use their muscles in the labour force instead of put that brain power to use where it could be used better.
There is a fourth suggestion for a form of regulation that is neither Government involved nor overly taxing on new start ups however. Has anyone seen the recent ads for trusted SuperGuarantee (http://superguarantee.com/) businesses mentioned by yellow pages group? Basically what the guarantee is that all businesses that are under the consumer guarantee have been checked over and are legitimate in business practice, abilities, honesty and legitimacy. Now this does not prevent any other company from starting up that is not a part of the Consumer Guarantee group but it does provide that little bit of assurance to a consumer that if the business you are dealing with is part of the Consumer Guarantee group, you are promised that they have been checked out and will treat you right.
Now apply that to the IT industry. What if there was an association of guaranteed computer service providers world wide (lets call them CSP Companies to make this easier) that the only difference between them and the average company was the simple fact they had been checked over and certified to be honest and knowledgeable in the sector of IT they are focused on. Not only would they do all that was possible to fix an issue correctly but they would do so with as little headache as possible to a customer because if they did not they would be booted out of the guaranteed group.
Now you ask what benefit would there be to be a CSP since they can still do business as usual on their own? Well if there was an incentive from a business standpoint in gaining customers that is one thing but think of it this way as well. Say for instance there are 500 CSP companies in North America and every one of them has their own overhead for printing invoices, business cards, flyers etc… along with purchasing of parts for repairs or purchasing of computers from Dell, HP, Acer etc. Now say they all joined up together and went to a printing company and said we all need 250 business cards a month each, if we all do business with you what benefit would you give us? I would imagine the cost of printing those business cards would work our alot less then if only one of those 500 companies went to the same printing studio and had the same request. The benefit may not be substantial to the company if it was just one product like business cards but put in parts, insurance, invoices etc, it all adds up.
As for certifying a company or individual to say they are trustworthy and can troubleshoot their way out of a bag, well that is something that would have to be worked out, however speaking as a business owner with 10 years of IT experience but no certifications other then by College Diploma, I can say that restricting criteria down to a point that it is based on your certifications only is very “paperbound”. I may not be certified but it does not mean I do not know my stuff. As mentioned by others there are many out there that are certified up the yin yang but cannot remember how to so something as simple as look up a files permissions in DOS.
So now that I have rambled on for ages and managed to type more then I should I will end my tirade and wait for the hate mail and arguments to poor in about my opinions. Fire away, but I hope there are some that what I have said makes some sense with.
I’d like to say that the computer business is most popular rip off business nowadays since every house has one or two of them….
why should we pay you to repair our pcs since most of us can do it ourselves with a lot of sites and guides for free on the internet like this site…
i have been doing it pretty good myself and never had to spend a single cent to get my pc repaired.
I’m sure if i do send mine to a tech im sure thet he will try to rip me off with a lot of non sense crap and technical jargons and stuff to put in my pc.So yeah go look for another job….people are getting tech-savy and getting educated about fixing their own pcs..
oh and i have to mention that some may be better than you with them than do…
If Bryce Whitty is reading and doesn’t like my post well make a post about it.ive got plenty of comments for you.
how come sOme computer repair companies charge for installing free software on your computer and you have to pay for that?? this is ridiculious..
i wouldnt pay fpr one that would click next>next?next etc…configure it because most of us can do that themselves.. this is the greatest joke i ever heard
and the biggest rip off in i.t,so yeah like i said get another job…or wait till your business’s close down soon
Errin, I agree with you that there are a lot of cowboys out there in the Computer Repair industry. This is pretty much what the whole article was about; preventing the cowboys from operating yet not being overkill on the legitimate businesses.
“why should we pay you to repair our pcs since most of us can do it ourselves with a lot of sites and guides for free on the internet like this site…”
If you can and are you confident enough in your own skills, great, do it. However, most people aren’t. Its like taking your car to a mechanic. I’m sure I could do a fair bit of research and eventually figure it out myself, but I’d rather take it to a mechanic. Most people are like this.
Also keep in mind that the point and click applications that remove viruses and whatnot will miss things most of the time. Check out this video to see how its done properly: https://www.technibble.com/video-podcast-how-to-remove-a-virus-without-an-antivirus-scanner/
Its kind of like painting your house. Don’t you just grab a brush and some paint? I could do it and it would look OK. However, professional painters have certain techniques to make it look perfect.
“how come sOme computer repair companies charge for installing free software on your computer and you have to pay for that?? this is ridiculious..”
If they are charging for the software itself they are breaking the license agreements of that software. If they are charging for the work of installing it, thats different and quite legitimate. I often install free software for my clients and get paid for my time. It is never the reason why I was called onsite, but they often mention towards the end that they need Microsoft Office. I tell them that it costs $300ish but they say they will barely use it and cant justify the cost. So I’ll tell them about something free like Open Office and install that. Im charging for my knowledge and time.
Electricians have to have a license.
Plumbers have to have a license.
Computer repair guy… nope.
Consider this: if you put everyone in a room that said they do computer repair, only 1/3 of them would actually be competent in computer repair.
Unlicensed means that anybody can say “i’m a computer repair technician” and not actually have any skill sets. I don’t have certifications on the basis that they generally don’t mean anything.
Although a license would not really mean much either, i think it would at least filter out the majority of phoney computer repair technicians.
I’d be more than glad to get licensed by the state to do computer repair, but i’m not interested in certifications.