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- The Issue is Not Always What It Seems: My Humbling Experience
The Issue is Not Always What It Seems: My Humbling Experience
Just recently on the Technibble forums we had a young soon-to-be technician who said he thought he was “pretty freakin good” at computers. Many of us told him that he was yet to encounter a job that makes him realize that there is a lot more to learn. Its quite a humbling experience when it happens and I would like to share with you one of my own “humbling experiences”.
A few months ago I was called out to an on-site repair job and I was told that the computer could not boot into Windows. Once I arrive on-site, I powered up the computer and sure enough, the computer would not boot up into Windows. The system would go through the BIOS processes without a problem, show the Windows XP boot logo and then the screen would switch off.
If the display works fine out in BIOS but then switches off when the computer gets into Windows, this is obviously going to driver problem of some sort. So, I reboot into Safe Mode so I can do something about this driver problem and the screen switched off again when it got past the Windows XP bootup logo.
I figure that if I boot the system into VGA mode it should work and sure enough, it does. At this point I am suspecting that the video card driver has become corrupt or something so I download the latest video card drivers from the manufacturers official site, remove the old drivers and install the new ones. I rebooted the computer and the screen still switches off once it gets past the XP logo.
I am beginning to think that the clients screen may be faulty because it cant handle the higher resolutions. I go out to my car and bring in my old 15 inch LCD screen that I use for testing. I rebooted the computer again and the problem still exists even on my screen.
At this point I am running out of ideas of what this problem could be. I was sure it was a driver issue because the video card obviously works because it would work fine in BIOS. When a video card fails it either displays artifacts on the screen, locks up or just fails completely which wasn’t the case here. I take off the side of the case and take look at the video card anyway even though I still believe this is a driver issue.
This is what I found. (click here for the picture)
It seems those two caps had something to do with controlling the resolutions 800×600 and above. When the video card was displaying 640×480 out in BIOS I believe these two caps weren’t being used and therefor the video card would work fine.
When Windows got past the XP boot screen, it would switch to 800×600 or above, the information would go through these two damaged capacitors and no video would be passed to the screen which makes it switch off.
I replaced the video card with an identical one, powered up computer and it worked instantly. I didn’t even need to do anything with the drivers. I just goes to show you that the problem isn’t always what it seems. I can fix 99% of the computers that come my way and I was so sure it was a driver problem but the good ol’ world of computer repair decided to throw a curve ball my way and keep my ego in check.
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That’s a great story! I’ve been in the field for more than 10 years now and I am constantly humbled. Not because I don’t know what I’m doing, but simply because there are so many things that could go wrong. And don’t forget about Karma, she’ll come back on you too ;)
I had to laugh a little at this story. I have been in the business more than 15 years and never ran across this problem. And then bam! two cases in just the last month. The first time I took the same approach as you, the second I knew exactly what to look for first.
Just goes to show you, just when you think you know it all here comes karma and Murphy’s law to prove you wrong.
OSI Model anyone?
Knowing it does help in the process of diagnosing issues because you must follow the path. Yes, it’s not a be all end all magic bullet, but all computers work the same way, so it’s a solid and consistent foundation from which to base your troubleshooting off of.
I got a similar problems once:
The computer would, most of the time, boot into Windows XP but sometimes it would just reset before boot and other times it would reboot while working perfectly.
The reason?
A badly seated CPU heatsink (it was rotated 180º so it was still possible to lock it onto the motherboard while barely touching the CPU top). For some reason no heat alarms were triggered but the thermal protection of the CPU was protecting the little thing.
Once corrected, the computer was been running fine ever since.
Blown capacitors can cause a lot of erratic behavior. I work in a large corporate environment where I’ve seen many computers that for no apparent reason would start doing something strange – like randomly reboot or freeze, hang on boot up, make loud fan noises, or just work extremely slowly. The cause would most often be blown capacitors on the motherboard. Sometimes it’s hard to see the problem because the capacitors are just slightly bulging. Other times you could tell right away because of the liquid leaking out of them.
The symptoms used to baffle me. Now I know to look for this problem any time I come across a computer behaving this way.
Its those hardware problems that can leave you scratching your head sometimes.
i had a problem like twice, once with a motherboard, the caps near the cpu “boiled off” and another with a flat panel monitor, monitor would work for about 5 minutes or so cheap monitor anyway. i’ve learned to open the case up and look at everything now :). my dad can so harsh on computers, smoke, dust, and keeping the house at about 80F all the time although i’ve found that putting a “dryer sheet” in the intake fan as an air filter helps (just lay it flat in between the fan and case).
Ah, it’s so easy to forget about component troubleshooting in an age when everything is software based! Great story! I’ve had many encounters like that over the years. Perhaps the most difficult part about it is when you then get asked “So what was the problem?” I no longer offer a technical response anymore, just a simple answer such as “a hardware failure” or “a software configuration adjustment” or (most used) “Neither I nor the vendor know, but the fix worked.”
I have had many a humbling experience. I avoid ones like the one above by following my A+ instructors advice of ALWAYS doing a visual inspection of the hardware and to always start with the simplest things first. Might take longer in some cases but for the few times you save yourself the hassle of chasing a problem in one direction only to discover leaking capacitors or something only slightly unplugged being the real culprit it is well worth the additional effort.
I had a DUH moment today as well, it’s been awhile. I am always grounded and sometimes humbled by this field.
One of the things I love about computer repair is that there are a dozen different ways a single problem can present itself. The fun part, as far as I am concerned, is the diagnostic. To think the same repair will work for the same problem every single time is naive. To think you’ll never have to do research to find a solution to a problem is naive. Being a repair technician means constant learning. The similarities between what we do and what a doctor does are endless. No two systems are the same and yet, they are all very much alike.
I still make silly mistakes on occasion – like plugging the monitor cable into the onboard video because I’ve not see the the video card plugged into the PCI slot. As a technician its easy to become lazy (because a lot of the work we do is very much the same) and miss even simple things. I am thankful for those systems which afford me a new challenge and keep me on my toes. I am still waiting to get my hands on one of the new All-In-One PC’s from Dell or HP so I can learn how to perform hardware repairs on one of them!
Strange things do happen with computers. I was once trying to get a machine running that would get the the XP load screen. Everything seemed ok but as soon as the load screen would disappear them machine would just freeze and do nothing else. I checked everything I could think of to make the machine work.
I happen to work for a company that does not use all the machines everyday and I personally knew that this machine had not been messed with since the late time I turned it off, it was running well then.
After testing all hardware by removing one item at a time I decided to try something else.
Being located at a business I decided to remove the hard drive as I had several exact same computers available, I took the hard drive to another machine that was working well and the thing booted and Windows ran as expected which proved Windows was just fine. So to be sure I put the hard drive from the second machine into the the one that I was originally working on and it did the exact same thing in the exact same spot. This for sure proved there was some kind of issue with the mainboard or the processor as both memorys has been tested and all other components were disconnected.
I guess I will never know exactly what went wrong since there were not leaking or buldging caps on the board. In any case I had the machine up and running a few minutes later by going and picking up a spare machine and ploping the ready to run drive into it.
It’s always interesting how what we consider software issues in the end turn out to be hardware issues, as in this example as well as the one about the loose 4-pin P4 power
@Ron, Good Point :D
@Tasha
“I am still waiting to get my hands on one of the new All-In-One PC’s from Dell or HP so I can learn how to perform hardware repairs on one of them!”
All in ones has consisted of most of Apples line up for years now. The hardware issues can get much more hairy especially since clearances and cable routing become big factors similar to laptops. So if you have experience with laptops, all in ones will be about the same.
But I agree to always include the all mighty take apart. Sometimes we get in a hurry or too lazy, but if nothing else it gives peace of mind.
I’ve been working in IT for nearly 10 years both for a large public organisation and privately to a small client base. For me the beauty of the job is that each problem calls on diagnostic skills and has the potential to have a completely different solution from even those problems that appear identical.
There is a mantra that I recite to myself whenever I come across a problem that evades resolution: “Assumption is the mother of all screw-ups!” (Clean version). This reminds me to go back to the beginning and systematically check all the things that I’ve taken for granted are working correctly. This approach has saved me on more occasions than I can count.
It’s these sorts of problems that make the job so much fun though!
I am having a problem like this right now. I have a newer computer with Vista that keeps shutting down then giving 3 beeps. When I say shut down, the screen goes black and the computer continues to run. It seems as though it is just video. Replaced video card and still had same problem. Blamed it on current in house. Owner did a little rewiring and the computer worked great for 2 months now same problem. I am baffled. Going to try a new power supply next. Any ideaas??
Bryce, you shoudn’t try to guess what capacitors do…
The reason why the card doesn’t work at higher resolutions is because of the frequency of the signal going through the capacitors (higher pixel rate). The capacitors are always used in the circuit, they’re there to stabilize the signal, to remove noise. When damaged, they fail to do so at high frequencies first. They can also be used to stabilize the card’s power supply, and as the card draws more power at higher resolution, it fails as well.
That said, this problem with bad caps started back in 2001 or 2002, when CPU frequencies got higher. We see mostly power supplies and motherboards with bad caps (Pentium4 era, mostly), and occasionally a VGA or some other card. Nowadays the industry is switching to solid capacitors that don’t suffer from this issue.
Check out badcaps.net to learn something about this. There’s even a theory (proven?) about a stolen capacitor chemical formula that started all this.
I’ve been formally in the business for 1 year, but I’ve worked on and learned about computers for 7 years(I’m 21, started at 14). Many of my humbling experiences were self-inflicted with my personal systems. I would do things wrong on my own systems, and I would have to find out what obvious mistakes I made. After years of trial and error and learning from mistakes, I’m at the point where I can avoid any humbling experiences. But I know that I have many years ahead of me and that the time will come sooner or later. But for now, I just look at situations with a cool head, take my time, and usually things go well.
My worst one until now is a computer with a broken PSU, I changed it but the computer would not boot or run good and stable.
Took me a long time to figure out that -5v on the new PSU was out.
Those are power supply capacitors. They are also right next to the power regulators on that board. They’re electrolytic capacitors which are always used in power supplies and audio applications. Most likely the higher resolution mode required a purer DC signal and since the caps were faulty the gpu couldn’t operate due to ac ripple on the dc line.
Yes K.I.S.S is cliche’ but needed most in PC repair. Thanks for sharing. I have had many experiences, that humbled me, but my favorite is when a friend has one. My friend, we’ll call him Simon, had a PC he could not figure out why it wouldn’t boot. He took each component out and tested it several ways, even the PSU. By the way guys a PSU tester is a must! All components checked out, at least he said “ALL” components had been tested. I took a look inside the box and noticed a old 56K modem card and that it was very hot. I was joking but didn’t let on and said take out that 56K modem card and it will start right up. He did and it did. He was amazed that I had the technical prowess to know that. He kept asking how did you know. I finally broke down and told him it was a guess and if I was right he would think me a genius, but if I was wrong he would forget about it in a couple of days.
Thank you Bryce, very informative experience you’ve got there. I have come across a similar experience whereby a cmos battery simply wouldn’t work, keeps on bugging me to change my date and time settings whenever the machine boots. Although I’m 100% sure its the battery, but replacing it doesn’t solve the problem. I did some component level checking and realize that the capacitor close to the battery its not supplying the required voltage to the battery. I change the capacitor and its working well.
My humbling experiences usually come from my own machine than anyone elses. A while ago I got a new pair of mid-high end GPUs for my system, and, shortly after starting a high spec game, it would just lose power. I tried everything except replacing the PSU, or so I thought. After doing this I got ultra sick of trying and quit playing games to cut down the waste of time.
So, then Microsoft release Windows 7 x64 Beta. I start using it instead of Vista x64, not long after I tried gaming on it. And, well, I can suddenly play games again. I had tried reformatting Vista several times, I even changed Vista version. I still don’t know why it was doing that. And, I’m not satisfied with it either. I didn’t think that the OS could cut power like that, and I still don’t. Oh well.
To add to the above, leaky capacitors are often seen in older hardware. This was especially prevalent in the early to mid 2000s — there’s even a Wikipedia article about it — it was called the Capacitor Plague!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
I had a similar problem about a month ago too. the caps on the video card were opened on the top which caused the same issue when booting into XP. It took me a while to figure out it would be a hardwae issue.
When I started with the Geek Squad a few years back I found that being good with computers does not mean that you will be good a fixing them (at first) Odd are if you are really good with computers…yours is never really broken. I was always the guy family and friends would call out to fix their issues. I would usually do a backup and format and reinstall. This does not qualify one as a tech. It was quite daunting when I stepped out in the field and found that an OS reinstall is not always the solution and in some cases for some clients not even an option.
But if you have a decent knowledge of how things work, enjoy a challenge, and have access to google (lol) you will learn quickly. What I love about this job is I learn something new everyday. I am not ashamed to say sometimes I even learn a little something from my clients or something they say sets off an idea.
I still find myself over complicating the issue. Much like this story I dig right into the nitty gritty without looking at the basics first. Always a humbling experience.
Its ok as long as you have learned something.
I live by this quote. I guess I will take credit for it as I have never heard anyone else use it.
“You don’t want the guy who answers you with “I know everything, sure I can fix it!” you want the guy who answers “Sure, I can figure that out for you!” One thinks he knows everything and the latter is confident but not cocky. The latter also knows he/she can do anything they set their mind to. The first guy is more than likely to spend hours making your computer worse and then admit to not being as good as first claimed.
Please excuse the long rant and bad grammar and spelling I am in a rush this morning. Hope this helps someone out.
Great Story, i am also an computer tech but never got that type of problems.
Yuhuu, You done a great job. All technicians shold be like you.