Computer Upgrade Still in Progress

[NETWizz]

Yeah... I am still Upgrading my computer. I would much rather configure a network switch.

Today I migrated from a SATA III SSD to an m.2 NVMe. I won the Windows lottery because it didn't need to re-activate for that change!



I tried to image it with the built in Windows 10 tools, but it wouldn't restore. It's basically a half-ass Microsoft product that doesn't work well. I copied this stuff to another, random 2 TB HDD I had laying around. One would think if you could make an image, you could restore it, but I got errors trying to restore it to an NVMe



Next, I decided to try Macrium Reflect Free, and to my shock it worked awesome. Heck, I just closed everything for good measure and told it to Clone the Disk. It took care of everything and finished quite quick.

Next, I benchmarked the new NVMe. It's almost 4x faster than the SSD it is replacing, so I am quite satisfied.

I have 96 GB of RAM on order if it ever shows up... 32 for the Laptop and 64 GB for the Desktop



Bitlocker is in progress.. Of course, I have the TPM on and BIOS updated.

 

[britechguy]

A change in disk drive has never, to my knowledge, required any "new hardware" gyrations. I've done tons of system disk upgrades.

Microsoft deprecated it's own Backup & Restore utility ages ago, and it wasn't any great shakes to begin with:
Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7), V1709]

They recommend using the third-party imaging software of your choice, and so do I.

 

[frase]

Yeap a vote for Macrium, get a heatsink for the M.2 if you dont have one already
The RAM is a bit excessive - do you do video production?

 

[NETWizz]

Yeap a vote for Macrium, get a heatsink for the M.2 if you dont have one already
The RAM is a bit excessive - do you do video production?

If it needed a heatsink, wouldn't it come with one?

It's just a Sandisk 1 TB 3D not that I have any eartly idea what 3D means in relation to storage. Sounds like marketing hype

 

[Sky-Knight]

A change in disk drive has never, to my knowledge, required any "new hardware" gyrations. I've done tons of system disk upgrades.

Microsoft deprecated it's own Backup & Restore utility ages ago, and it wasn't any great shakes to begin with:
Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7), V1709]

They recommend using the third-party imaging software of your choice, and so do I.

It can, but not on its own usually.

 

[Porthos]

If it needed a heatsink, wouldn't it come with one?

I feel they all need one and I include the cost of one with the cost of the drive. Laptop, Desktop it does not matter.

 

[Metanis]

I feel they all need one and I include the cost of one with the cost of the drive. Laptop, Desktop it does not matter.

Same! Those NVMe chips run hot. And I don't want my data dependent on overheating silicon!

 

[Larry Sabo]

If it needed a heatsink, wouldn't it come with one?

Do a test. Feel the drive while you image to it. They get very hot!

 

[JoelM]

Do you mind sharing which heatsink you use?

 

[Sky-Knight]

Do a test. Feel the drive while you image to it. They get very hot!

Doing tech by feel isn't a terribly good way to do tech. I live in a hot environment, and haven't had a single NVME fault due to heat yet. I suspect these are like RAM heat spreaders, there for people that overclock, not day to day use.

 

[britechguy]

Doing tech by feel isn't a terribly good way to do tech.

Amen to that! Nor is judging "hot" by anything other than a given manufacturer's operational temperature specs.

The amount of hand-wringing about temperatures that are, undoubtedly, hot to the touch but nowhere near to Tmax for a given device is both huge and ridiculous.

For CPU/APU temperature spec quick-checks I send people to cpu-world.com.

For an NVMe drive, it's a matter of checking the tech specs for that specific drive. In a laptop, given how tightly packed everything is you're way more likely to need (or at least benefit from) a heatsink than in a "drafty desktop" with good air flow.

If you're not routinely getting a temperature anywhere near to Tmax for that device in regular use, and even if you get one that's briefly above the top end of the recommended range during extreme stress, you're likely to be just fine.

 

[frase]

If it needed a heatsink, wouldn't it come with one?

It's just a Sandisk 1 TB 3D not that I have any eartly idea what 3D means in relation to storage. Sounds like marketing hype

They do get hot, I had to get one for mine

Doing tech by feel isn't a terribly good way to do tech. I live in a hot environment, and haven't had a single NVME fault due to heat yet. I suspect these are like RAM heat spreaders, there for people that overclock, not day to day use.

I had one that was overheating - temps very high, measured using HWMonitor. The system was running slow turned out to be the M.2 card.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@frase Brand? Model?

I've installed hundreds of M.2 devices in portable systems that are out in the Arizona heat. All WD Blue or Samsung, none have been an issue. So I submit if the device is overheating, it's defective and should be replaced. Because if these things are happy being in laptops outside in AZ Summer sun, they're fine everywhere.

 

[Porthos]

M.2 will throttle when getting hot. Most do not do constant reading writing of large files. Transfer a 20 gig or so file and watch temps and transfer rate.

 

[Sky-Knight]

M.2 will throttle when getting hot. Most do not do constant reading writing of large files. Transfer a 20 gig or so file and watch temps and transfer rate.

And? So you're saying they need a heat sink when installed in a server. This sort of thing is well beyond normal use.

 

[britechguy]

This sort of thing is well beyond normal use.

Which seems to get lost, entirely, far too often. "Normal use" and "within normal limits" does not include stress test conditions.

Almost every article claiming that these drives "need" heat sinks use stress testing conditions to get them to go to or above their designed operating temperatures. That's just not typical use in a very wide variety of applications, and I'd say that often includes servers.

Hammering any computer component relentlessly just isn't even close to what happens in the vast majority of real world situations.

 

[Larry Sabo]

Doing tech by feel isn't a terribly good way to do tech.

Okay, use a thermocouple and meter. When I felt the NMVe while imaging a drive and it almost burned my finger, that was enough for me to put a heat sink on it. Every USB-NVMe adapter I have purchased came with a heat sink.

 

[Porthos]

When I transfer SDIO to my external M.2 SSD or make an image to it it gets quite hot.
Better safe than sorry for a few extra dollars.

 

[britechguy]

When I felt the NMVe while imaging a drive and it almost burned my finger

Larry, believe it or not, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but touch the CPU when doing that and I guarantee that it will burn your finger.

I will come back, again, to the only way to know what is, in actuality, "too hot" is to look at the operation temperature specs for the device from its manufacturer.

These components were never meant to be touched by human fingers when in any even "kinda sorta busy for a while mode."

I'll end with the fact that I have no objections to heat sinks, and use 'em if you like. I do have objections to the false beliefs that predominate that many computer components will be, or should be, comfortable to human touch when doing anything other than sitting idle (and sometimes even then they'll be very warm).

 

[frase]

@frase Brand? Model?

I've installed hundreds of M.2 devices in portable systems that are out in the Arizona heat. All WD Blue or Samsung, none have been an issue. So I submit if the device is overheating, it's defective and should be replaced. Because if these things are happy being in laptops outside in AZ Summer sun, they're fine everywhere.

Sammy 970, in the end it depends what the user is doing and airflow of the system. As this one was a video/3D render system, things where rather cramped so the M.2 was overloaded. So overheating means it throttles the read/write cycle and would pause for a split second. Was enough to be annoying and noticeable, so now as @Porthos mentioned I make a habit of supplying the heatsink with the M.2.

@britechguy certain chips with a known touch temp can be diagnosed with touch, if one is aware of the normal range of heat dissipation. This is more relative to older MOS type chips though in my experience. With say a Chip from a C=64, which I had and still do have a lot of experience with. One of the chips known to overheat was the VIC chip. A touch when on load, one could tell the difference between the chip running as normal, or abnormal as in overheated by Jedi touch experience.

It would only be used as a preliminary test, though then one can concentrate on that chip and rule that out by observation & touch.