Dell SSDs

[mattsnoddy]

Anyone else run into issues with Dell's SSDs being wonky? I had a client get about 15 new Dells a year ago, all same make and model, and 3 of the 15 had SSD failures within the first year.

 

[lcoughey]

What is the brand and model of SSD in the systems?

 

[britechguy]

What is the brand and model of SSD in the systems?

Just reinforcing this point. In all my decades in this business I've never seen a computer OEM also be the OEM for the HDD/SSD that's in their systems (except, perhaps, Toshiba at one point in time).

And the same computer makers often change which storage makes and models they use over time.

 

[Sky-Knight]

If they got all 15 machines at the same time, they're all likely to have the same mode of failure. Brand of SSD doesn't really matter, everyone has bad lots!

 

[britechguy]

If they got all 15 machines at the same time, they're all likely to have the same mode of failure.

Serious question: Why? What is the driving factor to create that same mode of failure? [Your implication is this would be across different brands. If that was not intended, it would still be interesting to me to learn why a "mass SSD failure, with the same mode," would occur for a fleet of the same machines sourced at the same time.]

 

[Markverhyden]

Serious question: Why? What is the driving factor to create that same mode of failure? [Your implication is this would be across different brands. If that was not intended, it would still be interesting to me to learn why a "mass SSD failure, with the same mode," would occur for a fleet of the same machines sourced at the same time.]

Not sure how you got different brands of drives. I'd expect a fleet ordered at the same time with the same specs would most likely all have the same make and model of drives.

 

[britechguy]

I'd expect a fleet ordered at the same time with the same specs would most likely all have the same make and model of drives.

As would I. I was thrown by the "brand of . . ." comment, unsure whether it was, or was not, linked to the preceding one.

The only times I've seen multiple machines ordered at the same time not have the same storage is when "batch one, that we had been using" ran out and "batch two, from the newly chosen supplier," started being used during the production run.

And, as a general statement, "Brand of SSD doesn't really matter, everyone has bad lots!," is pretty clearly demonstrated just by the comments on this very topic. After what I've read here in the past, added with my personal experience, and what's been offered now I have virtually no reason to have brand loyalty anymore. Even more so since my experience with "all things computer" is that it either fails very, very early in its service life, while under warranty, or so much later that warranty is irrelevant.

But all that aside, I'm still curious about the "all same mode of failure" observation.

 

[NJW]

Serious question: Why? What is the driving factor to create that same mode of failure?

(My presumption is all drives from the same drive OEM batch.)

Consider that it's normal to select RAID drives from different batches to try to avoid common (i.e., 'the same', not 'frequently seen') failures.

If a batch is manufactured under the same conditions, with raw materials from the same respective batches, any sub-optimal material or process, or change/development of process – or even, tolerances stacking the wrong way – could easily lead to an unforeseen common early failure mode.

Also consider that components now going into finished goods could easily have been sitting in poorly supervised storage for nigh on two years.

Then again, the SSDs could be using the first wafers out of a fab that's been standing for a year and now ramping back up to capacity – perhaps the acceptable limits have been stretched in the face of supply urgency.

 

[Markverhyden]

"brand of . . ." comment,

Are they all Fords? Chevys? Yugos? The manufacturer can matter in many circumstances. Bring in data recovery someone like @lcoughey has a better insight into which brands are more prone to which problems compared to to others. If there is such a thing. Some on here have commented about certain preferences brands they avoid. Or prefer. Personally I don't have one either way for SSD's. But will certainly use anything but a WD Green for a 3.5" application.

 

[mattsnoddy]

What is the brand and model of SSD in the systems?

I've been looking to see if I still have one; I know I do somewhere. They were all the short postage-stamp sized NVMe ones, 128 GB, possibly Crucial mfr. Didn't know if anyone else had seen trends like this -- I've seen other issues over the years with things like lines of PSUs dying. I didn't know if it was a manufacturing defect in a line or possibly just heat dissipation problems, as they're so small and seem to have such poor mitigation. If I find one I'll post up the details.

 

[Sky-Knight]

As would I. I was thrown by the "brand of . . ." comment, unsure whether it was, or was not, linked to the preceding one.

The only times I've seen multiple machines ordered at the same time not have the same storage is when "batch one, that we had been using" ran out and "batch two, from the newly chosen supplier," started being used during the production run.

And, as a general statement, "Brand of SSD doesn't really matter, everyone has bad lots!," is pretty clearly demonstrated just by the comments on this very topic. After what I've read here in the past, added with my personal experience, and what's been offered now I have virtually no reason to have brand loyalty anymore. Even more so since my experience with "all things computer" is that it either fails very, very early in its service life, while under warranty, or so much later that warranty is irrelevant.

But all that aside, I'm still curious about the "all same mode of failure" observation.

If you get on Dell.com and order 15 machines of the same configuration, when they show up you're going to see serial numbers on all components very close together.

If there is any sort of defect in electronics, they do not impact specific units typically but entire lots due to the bulk automation used in mass production. So if you buy 15 desktops, and 1 of them loses an SSD, you can be relatively certain you're going to have more. You won't have 15 die though... but 4-5 of them would be normal in my experience. This applies to power supplies, mainboards, no component is exempted.

@NJW is mentioning the exact same impulse in a different arena, as it is very much in your best interest to purchase drives for any given storage array at different times to ensure you get drives from different lots. If you're using RAID 10 for example, it substantially decreases your odds of catastrophic failure to ensure that each mirrored pair is made out of two different manufacturing runs.

As for your comments about brand loyalty, you're right there is little point to be loyal. All computer components come from the same handful of source factories, most of which are in China. All the brand functions as is a label. That being said, the customer service of some brands is superior to others, so I choose to work with Dell a lot because I'm familiar with and tolerant of their warranty and return process. Dell itself isn't really a manufacturer anymore, but instead a bank making more money off warranty sales than equipment. But, this is in my favor because I use those warranties to guarantee service levels.

Those warranties are also the driving force for the secondary market that gets us used Optiplexes on the cheap we know we can reuse for substantial length of time after some refurbishment. So the entire market cycle is fed, and many of us here benefit.

MOST of this is gone in 30 days I might add, as defects typically show up quickly. But there are times they don't...

 

[labtech]

Dell uses Hynix SSDs a lot, which are low quality.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Dell uses Hynix SSDs a lot, which are low quality.

Dell uses whatever they get their hands on... I've seen Hynix, Samsung, Crucial, and Intel drives in them.

Though you're right most of the time it's Hynix.

 

[britechguy]

Dell uses whatever they get their hands on...

Not just Dell, either.

 

[thatdude]

@labtech said:

Dell uses Hynix SSDs a lot

I can confirm this. One of my technicians picked up a laptop today with a 2.5" and it's dead. It's not a laptop we originally deployed because if it was....

...we only use Crucial or Samsung that's it. We typically order computers from Dell with HDDs and replace them with Crucial SSDs before they are deployed. We also only use the models that have S.M.A.R.T. We rarely see any issues out of them and if they are on their way out Windows will notify you to backup the hard drive...it's failing.

 

[sapphirescales]

I usually only see Dell branded SSDs in their old business class systems. They usually used Samsung from my experience. That being said, they didn't seem to have the typical Samsung reliability so I would hesitate to trust a Dell branded SSD with critical data. It wouldn't surprise me at all of Samsung made a cheap POS specifically to sell to OEMs.