Do you charge for stuff like this?

[thecomputerguy]

I'm usually pretty generous when it comes to billing clients, I try to be available for them, even if they aren't under contract for 5 minutes here or there. But sometimes I feel like I can make an entire day out of 5 minute here or there calls and they end result is I've spent 5 hours at my desk "working" but haven't billed for a single bit of it.

I need to re-evaluate some things because work is REALLY slow right now, which has given me time to catch up on administrative stuff but I'm wondering if I'm being used as various companies IT guy, the guy they can lean on, but I'm not properly compensating myself.

Below are a few examples, all of these are pretty decent clients who I've done servers, or larger installs for which is probably why I am so tentative to bill for things like this.

1.) Contact emails me telling me an employee is missing some emails from 2014. I try to login to his account, password incorrect. Email her, then she emails me back assuring me it is correct. It was correct but she gave me the wrong email address. I log into the account, find the emails, tell her to have the employee call me so I can walk him through to where the emails are. He calls me, then I walk him through how to find the emails he's looking for.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 15 minutes]

2.) Client emails me asking how to reset her hosted exchange password. I email her back explaining that if the password is reset it will have to be reset across all devices (computer, phone, etc). She says she still wants to do it. I email her back with detailed instructions on how to do it including screenshots of the steps. She says she cant do it and she gets an error. I tell her then the only way to reset it is via the admin panel. I ask her what she wants her password changed to, she tells me, I change it then log into each of her devices to change the password for her.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 15 minutes]

3.) Client contacts me and asks me to call their phone guy who will be setting up VoIP phones at the new office they are moving to. I call him, talk to him for some time to make sure the client is setup properly for the new office.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 20 minutes]

4.) Client contacts me telling me his backup system is emailing him at his home computer telling him it isn't backing up. I tell him to call me when he gets home, he calls me at 8PM and I answer for some reason (blocked caller). Log into his computer, find out his computer is just going to sleep too quickly to allow the backup to complete. Help him with a couple spotify issues and he's off.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 15 minutes]

5.) Client contacts me because his sound isn't playing through a LogMeIn connection. I login to his computer, get a little confused because he is logged with LMI and I'm logged in with TV. Eventually find out he turned his LMI volume down.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 10 minutes]

6.) Client contacts me because he wants the graphic in his signature altered. After a few back and forths I send him his updated signature which was a matter of moving stuff around in MSPaint.
[TOTAL TIME SPENT: 10 minutes]



ALL OF THIS IN ONE DAY

So you can see how it would be easy to make a day out of 10 minute phone calls when I'm "THEE" IT guy. Does everyone else just swallow this and chalk it up to next time? How are you handling things like this? It drives me crazy because I can show up and spend a day working and not make a dime, but I feel like I'm nickel and diming good clients if I bill for 10 minutes.

The problem isn't one particular client, it's when you get 7 to 10 of these in one day on top of normal work that leaves me wondering what the hell I'm doing.

 

[callthatgirl]

Yep, you need to listen to my podcast with Matt Rainey. He called it, "If I can't answer with yes or no, it's a ticket" (half hour minimum)

And stick by that. Then those 5-10 min calls turn into a new support block of time or a $49 fee, whatever. Not sure where in the show we discuss it, but it's words to live by

I sell support tickets in 4-8 hour blocks that takes that $89 to just $32. Sells good.

Matt has a ton of knowledge about helpdesk, invoicing, etc. Good podcast.

Found it, at the VERY end of the show.

 

[thecomputerguy]

Interesting ... I feel exactly like Matt does.

The problem I have now is whether or not I have conditioned my existing clients to expect free work, which I probably have, and how to reverse that.

 

[callthatgirl]

De-condition them slowly. Here is what I had to do. I get a ton of "Hey Lisa, can you bla bla bla" and I email them back saying that I only offer email support for free (more or less yes or no) to my support ticket clients. And then I send off this link to my website that shows them the "value of buying a prepay ticket" http://callthatgirl.biz/value-of-a-prepay-support-ticket

I love those 5 min calls now, billed at $32 each

And actually, the help me fill my day with small jobs in between big ones.

 

[TenYardFight]

Yes yes yes yes! Oh my gosh yes. Here's how I did it...I log the time, send them a bill at the end of the month for that month's work. They either pay or stop calling either way I win. I've had 2 out of 500 ever not pay... People will start to value your time.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Interesting ... I feel exactly like Matt does.

The problem I have now is whether or not I have conditioned my existing clients to expect free work, which I probably have, and how to reverse that.

This is the difficult part...you accurately worded it..."conditioned my existing clients to expect free work..."

Here's something I frequently say. And you use this to push them towards an MSP plan...and you use this wording up front with potential new clients to sell an MSP plan. Tell them "by going on a proactive (free remote, lowered billed onsite) or a full managed plan (AYCE)...it allows you to make those quick GUILT FREE PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS. Drill that point home in a way that makes them realize the value of an MSP plan, so that you can be there to quickly answer the slew of quick little e-mails or quick remote support sessions.

For existing clients that are "conditioned"....you need to be reminding them of minimal charges. Some clients you rarely get work from....start being firm in some form of minimal charge. Keep track of your quick phone calls and/or e-mails to them....with some ticketing system that tracks time. If you do a quick 5 minute one...perhaps you don't feel it's time to invoice it yet...but once you track an accumulation of a couple of them...at the least..send an invoice for the bunch of them. Recoop at least a half hour of your time. It's a way to start training them.

For some clients that already pay you a lot, for various other services...and occasionally you get big jobs from them...I tend to be a bit more lenient....I'll let some quick phone calls/e-mails slide by. But at the very least...keep track of them in some ticketing system. Then as months go by...you can get a birds eye view of how much time you've spent on freebie help.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Yep, you need to listen to my podcast with Matt Rainey. He called it, "If I can't answer with yes or no, it's a ticket" (half hour minimum)

THIS!!!!
You are giving away the store. Either get these freeloaders on a contract or start billing people for when you DO something. In my book you just gave away $360.00. Would you like fries with that?

 

[aschrades]

I have the same problem. What I do is take notes and once I get 3 or 4 of the 5-10 minute fixes I invoice them together as one item for 1 hour.

Sometimes I don't have time to take notes so on Fridays I'll go through my sent items, text messages, and voicemails for the week and invoice for what I can.

It's a great feeling finding an extra 8 - 10 hours at the end of a week.

I'm a one man show so this isn't difficult. If you have a staff i could see that being cumbersome.

I've never had any pushback from clients doing it this way. I do give some freebies here and there for good clients. I don't want them to think of me as a lawyer where I charge per email, per copy, etc.

I've also added items to an invoice but listed them as no charge. I don't do this often but I'll group a bunch of yes/no questions together as no charge sometimes. Creates a little bit of good will. I don't clients to ever be afraid of calling me for any reason.

 

[allstarit]

Good advice above
+1 fpr having a Ticketing System- if you haven't got one already - Get yourself one.
Then funnel all support requests to the ticketing system
Emails- Reply to your client that you will log a ticket for you or you can log it at http://... For me i pipe my emails for support@allstarit.com.au and it automatically creates ticket on my ticketing site.
Phone Calls - Advise caller you will log a ticket with the ticketing system or help desk
Onsite Questions- Tell the customer your currently working on XYZ problem but ill log a ticket and cant take a look

Now the important part log a time sheet entry against the ticket for your time- diagnosing problem, if you need to call up supplier, if you call customer and you leave a voicemail ect. This will give you an indication of how much time each client is taking.
My ticketing system has option to send billing at end of the month or at a later time. This give me time to review all the entries to ensure they look right before invoicing to client.

As mentioned above you can either bill them the hours and/or show them the benefits of going on a Maintenance Contact.
Also if you have multiple levels of Maintenance which have different amounts of support ect you can then say to the customer you have used up X amount of hours this month would you like to upgrade to the next level of support - show them benefits of the higher plan ect...

 

[HawkinsPC]

I try to do very little over the phone or via email. Like Lisa said, if it can't be answered yes or no, I'll set up a service call or bill the client. This also comes in handy with random calls of people wanting to know how to fix stuff themselves. I'll listen to the problem, then say, "Hmm. It could be a couple of things. I'll need to take a look at it." Either they schedule an appointment or blow me off.

 

[cypress]

Good advice above
+1 fpr having a Ticketing System- if you haven't got one already - Get yourself one.
Then funnel all support requests to the ticketing system
Emails- Reply to your client that you will log a ticket for you or you can log it at http://... For me i pipe my emails for support@allstarit.com.au and it automatically creates ticket on my ticketing site.
Phone Calls - Advise caller you will log a ticket with the ticketing system or help desk
Onsite Questions- Tell the customer your currently working on XYZ problem but ill log a ticket and cant take a look

Now the important part log a time sheet entry against the ticket for your time- diagnosing problem, if you need to call up supplier, if you call customer and you leave a voicemail ect. This will give you an indication of how much time each client is taking.
My ticketing system has option to send billing at end of the month or at a later time. This give me time to review all the entries to ensure they look right before invoicing to client.

As mentioned above you can either bill them the hours and/or show them the benefits of going on a Maintenance Contact.
Also if you have multiple levels of Maintenance which have different amounts of support ect you can then say to the customer you have used up X amount of hours this month would you like to upgrade to the next level of support - show them benefits of the higher plan ect...

Big reason why the past week I been looking into getting a ticketing system to keep track of everything.

 

[TechLady]

I have the same problem. I don't want them to feel like they shouldn't call me for the little things, and I don't want to be a lawyer charging by the second either. It's little things literally all day long and that makes it hard to get to the jobs actually on my bench. It's not their fault, but I've yet to find a solution I feel all that good about. I haven't had the time or the nerve to really push the block plans where you just subtract time (which I know I should be doing). And some stuff is just SO incredibly basic or (dare I say it) dumb that I honestly feel bad charging for it, which I know isn't my problem and I should really channel Jimbo in those situations but...

Best part is (as you know) if you don't deal with their "little thing" problems immediately they end up doing really bad things to either fix it or work around it and make a real mess. I imagine business clients are much the same.

...random calls of people wanting to know how to fix stuff themselves. I'll listen to the problem, then say, "Hmm. It could be a couple of things. I'll need to take a look at it." Either they schedule an appointment or blow me off.

I really hate those calls because you can't win. You give away expertise hoping they'll get a good vibe and come back later or refer you (who knows!), or you give them the generic 'I need to look at it' response (which is the truth) and never hear from them again. The former has happened occasionally, albeit not very often, but the latter is pretty much 99-100% they blow you off. Sometimes I think these queries are their way of trying to ferret out if we actually know our sh*t or not in addition to being kinda cheap.

@cypress Oh man I can't even imagine doing anything without a ticketing system now. My head would explode. Pure chaos.

 

[sapphirescales]

The ONLY time I give free help is when they JUST got their computer home and can't figure something out. This happens probably 1 out of 10 repairs. Otherwise when they call I try to get them into the store or via remote (in store is much preferred). I'll make an exception if they're a good past client and I know they live far away.

You absolutely CANNOT just give away your time. USE that time to get them into the shop. Once they're there you can look at their problem and try to upsell them on some things. Then if you want you can try to sell them some managed services.

But you don't want to just do a quick job in 10 minutes and send them on their way. When you get them into the shop, spend some time with them. Try to sell them services. Ask them about their current tech situation. Fix their problem and look for other problems on the computer that you can address. Ask them if they're having any more issues (it's very rare that a client has no other problems).

 

[Krynn72]

@ OP, I would have billed for every single one of those jobs. Like, I'd get it if it was "Customer called about wifi not working, told them to flick the wifi switch on their laptop" and not charging for that. But the fact that you wrote out a guide for some people to follow, logged in to their computers, etc, baffles me that you didn't charge for that lol.

Sometimes I think these queries are their way of trying to ferret out if we actually know our sh*t or not in addition to being kinda cheap.

I very, very much doubt that. Its just cheapos looking for free help. A couple of years ago I thought the same, and would go to some length to help people like this (who I could quickly tell were not capable of following my directions, let alone understand what I was having them do) and I could count on one had the number of times it actually paid off for us. The amount of time wasted will certainly not be made up by what few sales you might get out of it.

 

[callthatgirl]

I very, very much doubt that. Its just cheapos looking for free help

Usually these calls for me, come from past clients who don't know and just want to talk, ask questions. I think it's our job to decide to say no and bill them or not. It's never easy to get over the guilt "it's just a 5 min question...."

 

[altrenda]

I think if you looked at a call timer you would be surprised how long that "5 minute' call actually was.

It's fine if you want to give away some of your time as Marketing or Customer Goodwill, but I would make sure the customer understood what you were giving them and that it has value. No matter how much something costs, it's hard for them to know that if they get it for free, you have to remind them.

I'm good at the "Well, I'm in the middle of something, but if it's real quick" line, and I won't hesitate to cut it off and make an appointment for a remote or visit at a later time if it looks like it will take too long.

 

[gadgetfixup]

Get a gatekeeper. My wife is mine. Nobody contacts me unless they get through her which is very rare. When a client needs to talk to me, a call back or sends an email she immediately tickets them. I don't work on anything without a ticket. That's my rule. So instead of writing my messages in a call book, she pops open RepairShopr, gets their information and creates a ticket for me. When I get time to call back, I open the ticket and start the clock. With that said, I do courtesy calls where I might feel they shouldn't be billed but they still get a ticket, billed and credited to zero out the balance.

I know that's tough if you're a one man shop, catching the phone, emails and doing repairs but I'd try to get some sort of a gatekeeper if you're keeping busy with work. Maybe even an answering service or VA that can answer basic questions and input tickets that need your expertise.

Also this keeps us invoicing promptly. We used to let business clients have more rope and bill them quarterly but some would suck up a week's worth of time and when the bill came, they totally forgot about it or didn't think we put that much time in it. We don't run balances any longer. We just bill, bill, bill. At the end of the month if we don't see a check we start sending the statements. One by email the other by snail mail. Customers get the message pretty quick.

 

[gikstar]

We use Connectwise for ticketing and invoicing. We have a VOIP phone system with multiple phones, the initial call is answered by our employee who currently lives about 150 miles from us (he also handles two clients in that area). When you call in to us the first thing you hear is "call is recorded". Our employee has had years of experience handling business calls... and knows what calls get forwarded to the owner and what calls are sent to the owner's voicemail etc. He also initiates the tickets, some items he handles himself as he's qualified to do so, and creates the ticket for his time. You might say that his job is also to make sure that the funds come in to cover his own salary as he's in charge of the accounting also.
On a regular basis these two go through all of the invoices and make sure the bills are sent out (via email) and decisions are also made whether small amounts of time are given away free or not, but the value of that time is always shown so that the client is aware of what they are receiving for free.
Our first Managed Business Client was provided with an 'all you can eat' scenario and it has worked out OK for us but we've haven't offered it to any other client. This client is not an abuser, the owner is probably the biggest user of our time since he's seems to purchase laptops quite often.
We have trained our clients to go to our website and create a ticket themselves which works out great. In case of emergencies they can call out main phone line in the off-hours but they get notified that this entails additional charges.
I think Connectwise may be one of the most expensive software (we use the online version) available but it's our bread and butter. The owner (my son) made the decision when he first went out on his own that he would use the best software and would just get by financial while he built up his company and grew his business (software before clients). He did a lot of residential until the business clients grew and made him profitable.

So, bottom line, one needs an ticketing system to keep track of everything, and from there you can determine if you need to charge them or not.

One more thing I want to mention about our phone system and 'calls are recorded'. This has saved us a few times where a client claims they said one thing but didn't or that we agreed to do this or that, or that we didn't notify them of ZZZ... since all incoming and outgoing calls are recorded, we can go back and review the call and also send a copy of the call in an email to the client or their boss as the need determines.

 

[cypress]

Get a gatekeeper. My wife is mine. Nobody contacts me unless they get through her which is very rare. When a client needs to talk to me, a call back or sends an email she immediately tickets them. I don't work on anything without a ticket. That's my rule. So instead of writing my messages in a call book, she pops open RepairShopr, gets their information and creates a ticket for me. When I get time to call back, I open the ticket and start the clock. With that said, I do courtesy calls where I might feel they shouldn't be billed but they still get a ticket, billed and credited to zero out the balance.

I know that's tough if you're a one man shop, catching the phone, emails and doing repairs but I'd try to get some sort of a gatekeeper if you're keeping busy with work. Maybe even an answering service or VA that can answer basic questions and input tickets that need your expertise.

Also this keeps us invoicing promptly. We used to let business clients have more rope and bill them quarterly but some would suck up a week's worth of time and when the bill came, they totally forgot about it or didn't think we put that much time in it. We don't run balances any longer. We just bill, bill, bill. At the end of the month if we don't see a check we start sending the statements. One by email the other by snail mail. Customers get the message pretty quick.

Love this post because it is a real eye opener. I used Repairshopr for ticketing those repairs but my struggle in the past was the support calls. I am turning to Zen Desk to capture those emails or calls in tickets. I already alerted some of my MSP clients about it today. They were on board with that.

 

[TenYardFight]

We use Connectwise for ticketing and invoicing. We have a VOIP phone system with multiple phones, the initial call is answered by our employee who currently lives about 150 miles from us (he also handles two clients in that area). When you call in to us the first thing you hear is "call is recorded". Our employee has had years of experience handling business calls... and knows what calls get forwarded to the owner and what calls are sent to the owner's voicemail etc. He also initiates the tickets, some items he handles himself as he's qualified to do so, and creates the ticket for his time. You might say that his job is also to make sure that the funds come in to cover his own salary as he's in charge of the accounting also.
On a regular basis these two go through all of the invoices and make sure the bills are sent out (via email) and decisions are also made whether small amounts of time are given away free or not, but the value of that time is always shown so that the client is aware of what they are receiving for free.
Our first Managed Business Client was provided with an 'all you can eat' scenario and it has worked out OK for us but we've haven't offered it to any other client. This client is not an abuser, the owner is probably the biggest user of our time since he's seems to purchase laptops quite often.
We have trained our clients to go to our website and create a ticket themselves which works out great. In case of emergencies they can call out main phone line in the off-hours but they get notified that this entails additional charges.
I think Connectwise may be one of the most expensive software (we use the online version) available but it's our bread and butter. The owner (my son) made the decision when he first went out on his own that he would use the best software and would just get by financial while he built up his company and grew his business (software before clients). He did a lot of residential until the business clients grew and made him profitable.

So, bottom line, one needs an ticketing system to keep track of everything, and from there you can determine if you need to charge them or not.

One more thing I want to mention about our phone system and 'calls are recorded'. This has saved us a few times where a client claims they said one thing but didn't or that we agreed to do this or that, or that we didn't notify them of ZZZ... since all incoming and outgoing calls are recorded, we can go back and review the call and also send a copy of the call in an email to the client or their boss as the need determines.

Do you live in a two party notification state for call recording? In about 40 states you can record calls if you just inform one party (your draff).