Help with a server please

[Kitten Kong]

Hi everyone, I have been contacted by a local construction company to do a quote for a replacement server.

This is the email they have sent me. (I think the specs etc, are from another pc repair company).

Hardware

Server Tower Chassis
Supermicro X8DLT-I X58 Intel Xeon Dual Processor Motherboard
2 x Intel Xeon Quad Core 2.4Ghz Processors
24GB DDR3 RAM, CDROM, LAN(1Ghz)
Integrated SCSI SATA Hardware Raid

Tandberg Quickstore 500GB USB 3 Backup
6 x 500GB cartidges

3 x Office 365, 5 users per product (15 users total)
(word/excel/powerpoint/outlook/access)

Software

Microsoft Small Business Server 2011 (20 users)
(includes Microsoft Exchange- 20 users)

Access database is currently using access 2000.
This system will require re-writing/upgrading to access 2013
(requires a programmer to investigate) estimated 1-2 days

Delivery & Installation:

Setup new server
Transfer data from old server to new server
Install various programs (Sophos/Symantec backup, etc..)
estimated 2 days

Symantec anti virus

All computers to be tested and linked to printers scanners access etc

Additonal cost

Microsoft project (may not be required)

Client has approx 12 work stations, and 6 laptops which would be connected to the server. Server would be used as a general server, ie file server, exchange etc.

I know practically zip about servers, so I don't even know, what im asking for here..

I suppose, is the specs of the proposed server ok, should anything be upgraded now, rather than later.

Any ideas as to the cost of a machine like this?. Chances are I would have to sub this out to another co, as mentioned I know zip. But would love to be alongside said co, to learn along the way .

Would it be best purchasing a server from the likes of Dell etc. If so, does anyone have any models in mind?

Finally, any techs close to me, who would be interested in doing this job?, should I get it obviously.

 

[Markverhyden]

1. I would get them over to hosted Exchange. It's cheap and reliable enough and you do not have to monkey around trying to support it.

2. Correct, buy a machine from someone else. There is no way you can compete on price with the likes of Dell or HP. I like the Dell R series, got a R710. But they are not cheap fully kitted. You could go with a cheaper model, such as T420, but the RAID and RAM options will be limited.

3. I noticed that they did not mention HD's themselves. You need to find out how much "stuff" they have in GB's. Personally I would get two smaller HD's, say 320 GB for the OS and mirror them. As far as data is concerned. Kind of depends on how much stuff they have. If they do not have much you could get a couple of 1T drives and mirror them. If they have a lot of stuff you could get some smaller drivers, say 750's and do a RAID 6. You would need 5 drives minimum for that. That gives you data security with up to two simultaneous drive failures. Of course that might be overkill but that is a proper business class type server setup. Or you could get 4 drives and do a RAID 10

The other end of the spectrum for storage might be a pair of mirrored drives, say 2T. Two partitions, one for OS and one for data.

3. I would bump up that RAM to 32gb.

4. Dell's backup systems now use a removable laptop HD rather than tape.

5. An onsite visit should be mandatory prior to putting together anything. You should probably run a utility on each machine to see what they have. Numerous 3rd part apps like Belarc will let you know what they have. And do not forget that MS has their own built in tool - msinfo32.exe

 

[4ycr]

I would agree with the above, get a brand server and not self built and more RAM.
Onside visit is a must and if you they have an exchange already and you are migrating then maybe add a day or 2 to your time.

I had one where the last IT guy had stopped all updates as the hard drive ran out of space, so following best practice I made the space and installed all the patches which took over a day before I started to migrate to the new server..

Are they disciplined enough to swap drives and take one off site? If not see about a NAS for local backup and a cloud backup for disaster (Datto is an all in one for this), come to think about it I don't think MS backup can backup to tape, so a 3rd party backup program would be needed. The last server I bought from dell has the OS and their data on separate drives and each were raided.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply.

I will look into the R710/T420's, and see how they compare.

I initially mentioned to the client, that a onsite visit would be required before doing anything, and they are fine with this.

I have sent a email to my client, asking for further details re backups, data size etc, and attempting to arrange a onsite appt for next week, to discuss further.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm curious why they were quoted both *SBS2011 (which includes local Exchange), and *O365 (hosted Exchange).

Usually it's one or the other, not both.

Could quote better server hardware for under 5 grand...with good SAS drives, with a good RAID controller, and not that fake-RAID with probably SATA disks...LOL ugh!
A T420 would be a decent start....I just priced 2 of them this week. Can configure that hardware around 2500-3000 bucks...with SAS drives. I'd do one with a pair of 300 15krpm SAS RAID 1 up front, pair of 300 or 450...RAID 1 or 5 or 10 (depending on needs) for the rear.

One quick question....typical e-mail useage....I see "construction firm"...they may send/receive large e-mail files (attachments?). Orifice 365 has that limitation of 25 meg attachments. Some clients we have that deal with large e-mails...having a local Exchange server works best for them.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Thanks 4yr. Apologies, took so long to reply to Mark's, that I didn't see yours till just now.

To be honest, I don't know if they are disciplined enough. This is the first contact I have had with them. I was initially thinking of a NAS for local, but adding disaster does sound like an additional bonus.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Thanks Stoney. I presume the O365 is for the usual Word, Excel, Access etc. Hope to find out more next week.

Re the email usage. I'm not 100% au-feit with Exchange, or O365. Would you say that a local exchange server would be better than a hosted exchange server?. Would the local one, be ran in a VM at all?.

Sorry for the noob questions, but I want to get this set down pat for both me, and my client.

If I'm going to be more expensive than the other company, I want to give them some good reasons as to why. I.E. Hosted, or local exchange, Nas and disaster backup etc.

 

[seedubya]

Nige, I'm happy to consult on this if you need help. I'll PM my number. This stuff is our bread and butter!

FOC, I mean!!

 

[Kitten Kong]

Cheers CW.

I'm out of my league here, but don't want to turn the job away, as it's a nice earner.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Thanks Stoney. I presume the O365 is for the usual Word, Excel, Access etc. Hope to find out more next week.

Re the email usage. I'm not 100% au-feit with Exchange, or O365. Would you say that a local exchange server would be better than a hosted exchange server?. Would the local one, be ran in a VM at all?.

Sorry for the noob questions, but I want to get this set down pat for both me, and my client.

If I'm going to be more expensive than the other company, I want to give them some good reasons as to why. I.E. Hosted, or local exchange, Nas and disaster backup etc.

Well....Office 365 is a suite of services.
The most basic package is Hosted Exchange..and going up from there, you have online storage/OneDrive/Sharepoint, adding more..some packages include licensing for full local installations of MS Office Professional Plus (the highest Office package), and you can add MS Lync (it's like Skype combined with GoToMeeting).

Advantages? Don't need a beefy server to run Exchange...and don't need additional services for Exchange, no added overhead for backup, filtering, time spent patching, etc.

Local Exchange Server? You get more flexibility...MS Office 365 does come with some restrictions end users don't like. But local Exchange server you need a higher skill set....to admin it, run it, fix it, maintain it. Larger server...to run it. More complicated backup. Management and knowledge of DNS records. Filtering service. Added antivirus costs (or filtering).

 

[Markverhyden]

Just want to add some comments in reference to YeOldeStoneCat's comment about large attachments in emails.

All email servers have some kind of attachment size limit. One advantage of using the integrated O365 is the availability of online file sharing. What M$ used to call Skydrive Pro is now called One Drive for Business.

Using these types of services has many advantages. Minimize email store bloat. A bit more security since no one can accidentally forward an attachment. You can implement passwords for file access control. Shared files can be removed.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Mark are you finding people getting into using that method (and finding it practical) for sending and receiving e-mails outside of the organization?

We working on trying to get people to wrap their heads around the concept of O365's Sharepoint/OneDrive....and it's quite a hurtle. IMO I think MS is still trying to improve it..and the constant changes to it are making it difficult to get momentum here.

 

[Markverhyden]

Mark are you finding people getting into using that method (and finding it practical) for sending and receiving e-mails outside of the organization?

We working on trying to get people to wrap their heads around the concept of O365's Sharepoint/OneDrive....and it's quite a hurtle. IMO I think MS is still trying to improve it..and the constant changes to it are making it difficult to get momentum here.

Do you mean other email accounts or are you referring to large files?

I've been dealing with this whole file size issue for many years now. Not only personally, such as emailing tons of family pictures, but professionally as well.

I'm sure you have noticed, like all the rest, that EU's want something that falls in the KISS principle category. No problem. But when we need to address things like proprietary files, patient confidentiality, etc, etc it gets tricky.

As mentioned email has it's limits and has serious security breach possibilities.

To provide better security I started using/implementing FTP. As long as the address is not in the wild - such as a web site - and you have good usernames and passwords it can be very secure. Of course there are other things needed like chrooting all accounts, etc. The problem with that solution is it does not really fall into the KISS category in practice. Heck, I've even had IT people call me up because they could not retrieve a file.

"Mark, I'm trying to get your survey and estimate but it's not working"
"How are you doing this?"
"I'm typing in ftp.xxxxxxxxxx.com in my browser and nothing happens"

Multiple face palms and banging my head against the wall. One would think that anyone that has been in IT project management for several years would understand what ftp is.

The online storage, web based access, does meet the KISS standard. But, for me, it needs to be secure. So I'm no fan of dropbox, etc. as there is really no way to know what is under the hood. I have been using ownCloud for sometime and am very happy with it. Mine is self hosted but there are third party providers out there.

M$ is going to have a robust product but, as you mentioned, they do need to stabilize it to increase adoption rates. But it makes complete sense within the O365 scheme of things.

And I want to throw out another option I've run across. Tested it and looks pretty good. Pertino - third party VPN service. Basically setup their client on each computer and it creates a networking device for their VPN service.

 

[AndyM]

I don't know if anyone else has thought about this the way I am, but the specs that they sent over to you. Are they the specs from the 'other' IT company?

I would go back to the construction company, and ask what they currently have, what they need now, and what they will need in 2 years time - are they going to be employing more staff etc?

I agree with Mark and Stoney in that an off the shelf server would be more appropriate. In addition you could then sell a server support package from the likes of Dell or HP, and have 4 hour response times, 24x7x365 or if they don't need that level of support, then 8 hour, 8x5 support. The advantage of these options, is that as you are not familiar with servers, then you just act as the point of contact. You still get everything done, but you get Dell or HP to do the work under their warranty package. (and you don't have to wait around waiting for parts if anything goes wrong).

In regards to other things... Symantec Anti Virus and Sophos have both been mentioned? You really don't want Symantec Business Anti Virus (or Symantec Backup) on one of these things! Anti Virus, my favourite is ESET, but Kaspersky and BitDefender both do business packages.

In terms of backup, StorageCraft Shadow Protect. I have an option for doing offsite with Shadow Protect that works! Should the server fail, then the offsite image can be up and running within 30 minutes (the SLA is 4 hours, but reality is 30 minutes). It's a new service I'm offering my customers, for £110 per month for 100GB of storage. As said, if the server fails, then I can have the server up and running in under 4 hours, with a dedicated IP address (or range if required), and access to it from anywhere in the world.

Office 365 is scalable. From 1 to 250,00 users (I think). Easy to setup, and you don't have to know about Exchange in order to do it. Price per user for the Business version which comes with Office that you install on local machines, is £10.65 per month, or £100.20 per year, per user. If they have staff that just require Exchange, then it's £2.65 per user per month. You also get Microsoft support with Office 365, so you can call them up if you have any questions.

Everyone that I've converted to Office 365 has been more than happy with it.

Andy

 

[Kitten Kong]

Thanks for the comments and replies everyone.

I have emailed the client yesterday in an attempt for a visit one day next week, in order to get more information off them, ie what they have now, plans for additional users etc.

I agree on the comments re Symantec. Will be looking elsewhere for their av solution etc.

When I hear back off the client re the visit, I'll be able to have some more input on some of the questions and concerns raised here.

Thanks again everyone

 

[Mokester]

O365

In my experience, construction, law, and engineering companies are notorious for sending large attachments...and getting the first two to switch to some type of file share is...painful.

On a side note, I see that there is an Access *cringe* database program that needs to be updated to a newer version of Access? If they are going to go through the trouble of hiring a programmer to do that I suggest asking the programmer to make the backend in SQL...the front can still be Access but backend it into a proper database.

 

[Kitten Kong]

I have a onsite meeting with my client (MD, and CFO/FD) on Thurs at 3pm.

If I write a series of questions here, to put to the client, would you guys be willing to check them over for me, and see if theres anything which needs to be added, included etc?

 

[Markverhyden]

Of course. A case or three of Newcastle should be fine!!!!!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You bring the Beamish or Guinness..and I'll be there! Heck I love Newcastle bomber bottles too!

 

[MotzTech]

Some great advice in this thread, though something caught my eye and got me wondering.

3 x Office 365, 5 users per product (15 users total)
(word/excel/powerpoint/outlook/access)

I'm pretty sure this would be in violation of the software terms. Don't have time to find a source to confirm, but I'm pretty sure if they have 15 active users of the software, they need 15 licenses. The 5 installs per user is designed for situations where an employee might have a desktop, a laptop, and a tablet or something like that. Not for 5 employees to use on 5 desktops as the same time.

I could be wrong here though.