Help with paint mixing system PC

[MobileTechie]

A client has a paint mixing system which consists of a console linked to a little PC unit by a serial cable in a steel box. The PC unit has a CD drive and when it worked he starts up the console and the PC unit with the disk in it and it finds the mix info off the CD, apparently.

I've got it back to the work shop and opened up the PC box and it's effectively a small, old PC with a little motherboard which shows a "VIA Embedded Platform" BIOS logo and then gives a "Missing operating system" error which would appear to be the root of the problem.

This pc has two IDE bus sockets. One is attached to the CD drive and the other has an IDE-to-Compact Flash converter in it and a flash card in the converter. It has a single 128MB DDR ram stick

BIOS shows this disk layout:

IDE Primary master: none
IDE Primary slave: CD drive
IDE Secondary master: compact flash drive
IDE Secondary slave: none

The directory listing of the flash card is:

Volume in drive H is CDUNIT
Volume Serial Number is 101F-1105

Directory of H:\

09/07/2001 09:54 107 CDQUICK.BAT
14/11/2005 19:51 39 ECOTEMP.$$$
14/11/2005 19:28 512 FREEDOS.BSS
27/05/2008 09:27 168 HBQUICK.INI
27/05/2008 09:27 118 HBQUICK.QUL
09/07/2001 09:52 53 HDCONF.SYS
30/05/2004 22:09 45,182 KERNEL.SYS
25/03/2014 06:25 919 QUALITY.XML
14/11/2005 19:50 268 START.BAT
27/03/1992 06:00 5,190 VDISK.SYS
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> FDOS
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> MILSTEDA
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> PERSDB
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> PERSDBHB
21/08/2004 18:38 64,735 COMMAND.COM
14/11/2005 20:06 570 AUTOEXEC.BAT
14/11/2005 19:42 857 CONFIG.SYS
08/12/1998 19:48 7,024 CDROMCOM.EXE
10/07/2014 08:36 0 directorylisting
15 File(s) 125,742 bytes
4 Dir(s) 81,827,840 bytes free"

The dir listing of the CD is:"

Volume in drive E is ECOMIX 1/2011
Volume Serial Number is B58C-A86C

Directory of E:\

09/11/2006 10:14 39,418 ECOMIX0.SYS
12/01/2011 14:01 <DIR> FIRMWARE
12/01/2011 14:01 <DIR> PROG
06/06/1995 12:07 32 REBOOT.COM
17/07/2001 15:03 4,208 SETUP.EXE
21/05/2002 11:22 270 START.BAT
12/01/2011 14:00 <DIR> SYS
22/06/2007 10:49 1,190 VERSION.INF
5 File(s) 45,118 bytes
3 Dir(s) 0 bytes free"

N.B. the drive letters have been assigned on my Windows PC in order to list the directories.

The PC is set to boot to the CD first and then the HDD0 which is the flash. Since the CD does not appear bootable it then goes onto the flash and then you get the "Missing operating system" error. That would appear to be the problem.

I've messed around with boot orders to no avail. I've replaced the IDE/Flash converter card just in case and that does not work (tried all 3 master/slave/cs) jumper settings on it.

The PC will boot to Hirens from its CD player but won't complete the boot into Knoppix or Parted Magic (low memory?)

I can read the flash card just fine from a usb card reader on my bench PC.

I've tried connecting my usb flash card reader and booting to that and this gets further in the process. I get a dos menu pop up giving 3 boot options. You don't get long to read them but they are along the lines of

1. load freedos with max memory
2. load freedos with himem
3. load freedos no drivers

When it defaults to 1 (I assume) you get the following errors:

"config.sys error in line 17
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE

config.sys error in line 18
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMMK386.EXE NOEME X=TEST

config.sys error in line 20
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\milstead\oakcdrom.sys /D:FDCD0001

Bad or missing command interpreter: c:\command.com c:\ /P=c:\autoexec.bat
Enter the full shell command line:"

If at that point I enter the command line command.com I get the dir listing of the card and the prompt A:\

So it occurs to me that the card is acting as A: whereas these errors imply it should be the C: and I cannot switch to the c: in dos

Using type to look bat files I can see it refers to the cd player as the H: but I cannot switch to h: in dos as, like every other letter than a: I get "invalid drive"

where to go from here?

 

[KompuKare]

Was the machine touched before you? As it seems a bit strange that the flash isn't primary master.

Anyway, I would back everything up first.

A assume any lines in config.sys and autoexec all refer to C:\ ?

So, your main problem seems to be that the flash card shouldn't be A:.

Wonder if enabling floppies in the BIOS (if it has an option for any) would work even without any actual floppies - just to use up A: and B:

EDIT: As for the CD, without config.sys loading up the driver, it won't appear.

Forgot to mention: is the battery flat and hence it's on CMOS defaults? Assuming nobody or nothing damaged the filesystem, that is the most likely thing to go with embedded controllers (if I was designing an embedded system I would want to make sure it worked with the CMOS defaults because during its life it is bound to outlast a fair few batteries...)

 

[red12049]

A client has a paint mixing system which consists of a console linked to a little PC unit by a serial cable in a steel box. The PC unit has a CD drive and when it worked he starts up the console and the PC unit with the disk in it and it finds the mix info off the CD, apparently.

I've got it back to the work shop and opened up the PC box and it's effectively a small, old PC with a little motherboard which shows a "VIA Embedded Platform" BIOS logo and then gives a "Missing operating system" error which would appear to be the root of the problem.

This pc has two IDE bus sockets. One is attached to the CD drive and the other has an IDE-to-Compact Flash converter in it and a flash card in the converter. It has a single 128MB DDR ram stick

BIOS shows this disk layout:

IDE Primary master: none
IDE Primary slave: CD drive
IDE Secondary master: compact flash drive
IDE Secondary slave: none

The directory listing of the flash card is:

Volume in drive H is CDUNIT
Volume Serial Number is 101F-1105

Directory of H:\

09/07/2001 09:54 107 CDQUICK.BAT
14/11/2005 19:51 39 ECOTEMP.$$$
14/11/2005 19:28 512 FREEDOS.BSS
27/05/2008 09:27 168 HBQUICK.INI
27/05/2008 09:27 118 HBQUICK.QUL
09/07/2001 09:52 53 HDCONF.SYS
30/05/2004 22:09 45,182 KERNEL.SYS
25/03/2014 06:25 919 QUALITY.XML
14/11/2005 19:50 268 START.BAT
27/03/1992 06:00 5,190 VDISK.SYS
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> FDOS
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> MILSTEDA
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> PERSDB
17/01/2006 10:08 <DIR> PERSDBHB
21/08/2004 18:38 64,735 COMMAND.COM
14/11/2005 20:06 570 AUTOEXEC.BAT
14/11/2005 19:42 857 CONFIG.SYS
08/12/1998 19:48 7,024 CDROMCOM.EXE
10/07/2014 08:36 0 directorylisting
15 File(s) 125,742 bytes
4 Dir(s) 81,827,840 bytes free"

The dir listing of the CD is:"

Volume in drive E is ECOMIX 1/2011
Volume Serial Number is B58C-A86C

Directory of E:\

09/11/2006 10:14 39,418 ECOMIX0.SYS
12/01/2011 14:01 <DIR> FIRMWARE
12/01/2011 14:01 <DIR> PROG
06/06/1995 12:07 32 REBOOT.COM
17/07/2001 15:03 4,208 SETUP.EXE
21/05/2002 11:22 270 START.BAT
12/01/2011 14:00 <DIR> SYS
22/06/2007 10:49 1,190 VERSION.INF
5 File(s) 45,118 bytes
3 Dir(s) 0 bytes free"

N.B. the drive letters have been assigned on my Windows PC in order to list the directories.

The PC is set to boot to the CD first and then the HDD0 which is the flash. Since the CD does not appear bootable it then goes onto the flash and then you get the "Missing operating system" error. That would appear to be the problem.

I've messed around with boot orders to no avail. I've replaced the IDE/Flash converter card just in case and that does not work (tried all 3 master/slave/cs) jumper settings on it.

The PC will boot to Hirens from its CD player but won't complete the boot into Knoppix or Parted Magic (low memory?)

I can read the flash card just fine from a usb card reader on my bench PC.

I've tried connecting my usb flash card reader and booting to that and this gets further in the process. I get a dos menu pop up giving 3 boot options. You don't get long to read them but they are along the lines of

1. load freedos with max memory
2. load freedos with himem
3. load freedos no drivers

When it defaults to 1 (I assume) you get the following errors:

"config.sys error in line 17
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE

config.sys error in line 18
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMMK386.EXE NOEME X=TEST

config.sys error in line 20
>>>12: DEVICE=C:\milstead\oakcdrom.sys /D:FDCD0001

Bad or missing command interpreter: c:\command.com c:\ /P=c:\autoexec.bat
Enter the full shell command line:"

If at that point I enter the command line command.com I get the dir listing of the card and the prompt A:\

So it occurs to me that the card is acting as A: whereas these errors imply it should be the C: and I cannot switch to the c: in dos

Using type to look bat files I can see it refers to the cd player as the H: but I cannot switch to h: in dos as, like every other letter than a: I get "invalid drive"

where to go from here?

If you are trying to boot on another machine, that would explain the drive letter errors... You can make a copy of flash drive for safekeeping, and then alter the batch files to suit the new drive arrangement, and see if it boots.

The command.com error is indicative of a missing/incorrect path statement, or a missing command interpreter.

After copying the flash drive, using an older machine, you can format the flash disk with the /SYS command. That should allow the machine to boot to a drive prompt.

Have you checked or replaced the ram?

Rick

 

[MobileTechie]

Was the machine touched before you? As it seems a bit strange that the flash isn't primary master.

Anyway, I would back everything up first.

A assume any lines in config.sys and autoexec all refer to C:\ ?

So, your main problem seems to be that the flash card shouldn't be A:.

Wonder if enabling floppies in the BIOS (if it has an option for any) would work even without any actual floppies - just to use up A: and B:

EDIT: As for the CD, without config.sys loading up the driver, it won't appear.

Forgot to mention: is the battery flat and hence it's on CMOS defaults? Assuming nobody or nothing damaged the filesystem, that is the most likely thing to go with embedded controllers (if I was designing an embedded system I would want to make sure it worked with the CMOS defaults because during its life it is bound to outlast a fair few batteries...)

There was a cmos error when I first booted it up with a screen attached and I replaced the cmos battery (forgot to mention this info!) so I suspect it's running off failsafe defaults and not necessarily how it should be set up.

Re: a: and b: - just noticed that I can change to b: but it shows up the same files as a: - i.e. those on the flash card.

 

[MobileTechie]

If you are trying to boot on another machine, that would explain the drive letter errors... You can make a copy of flash drive for safekeeping, and then alter the batch files to suit the new drive arrangement, and see if it boots.

The command.com error is indicative of a missing/incorrect path statement, or a missing command interpreter.

After copying the flash drive, using an older machine, you can format the flash disk with the /SYS command. That should allow the machine to boot to a drive prompt.

Have you checked or replaced the ram?

Rick

I'm not trying to boot on another machine - only on the original.

I've tested the RAM but not replaced it.

re: "After copying the flash drive, using an older machine, you can format the flash disk with the /SYS command. That should allow the machine to boot to a drive prompt."

are you suggesting copying off the files from the flash card, formatting / sys and copying them back over?

 

[KompuKare]

There was a cmos error when I first booted it up with a screen attached and I replaced the cmos battery (forgot to mention this info!) so I suspect it's running off failsafe defaults and not necessarily how it should be set up.

Re: a: and b: - just noticed that I can change to b: but it shows up the same files as a: - i.e. those on the flash card.

Ah, as suspected then. Now is there a possibility that someone swapped the drives around (primary master for the flash makes more sense)?

Yes you might be able to get it to work by changing all C:\ to A:\ (after backup) but you shouldn't have to.

My DOS knowledge is getting a bit rusty but I can't see how the flash is getting A: though. But a CMOS reset means that a setting in the BIOS somewhere should sort it. Make a backup by all means (and a filecopy backup should do, it just means you'd have to SYS the drive if starting from scratch), but unless someone swapped something around, the only changes you need to make should be in the BIOS.

 

[MobileTechie]

I kind of agree except it's worth remembering that I don't even get the A: access unless it's via my USB card reader. When the card is in the IDE slot via its converter I simply get the missing operating system error.

So I suspect the A: might be coming from the USB card reader

 

[KompuKare]

I kind of agree except it's worth remembering that I don't even get the A: access unless it's via my USB card reader. When the card is in the IDE slot via its converter I simply get the missing operating system error.

So I suspect the A: might be coming from the USB card reader

Ah, didn't catch that bit. So what happens if you boot from a CD (freedos.iso for instance).

If that can see the drive (AFAIK it should be C: then), then SYS'ing the drive should work. If it can't see the drive, then something is wrong somewhere. But your card reader can see so it might be the converter or even the IDE slots. Does the CD work in all four PATA slots?

If it wasn't so hard to get IDE drives these days I'd just get a new drive for it and copy it over. Although since this setup presumably barely does any writing, a flash card should outlast a mechanical drive.

 

[red12049]

I'm not trying to boot on another machine - only on the original.

I've tested the RAM but not replaced it.

re: "After copying the flash drive, using an older machine, you can format the flash disk with the /SYS command. That should allow the machine to boot to a drive prompt."

are you suggesting copying off the files from the flash card, formatting / sys and copying them back over?

Nope. Format /SYS and see what happens. If it boots to a correct drive prompt, and you can run dos commands, one of the original boot files is at fault. If not, need to look further.

If it boots, then you can examine config.sys and autoexec.bat, and put them on, and see what happens. There will most likely be some errors, but at least you'll know hardware is ok, and can work from there.


Rick

 

[MobileTechie]

A little update - I think I've got some way with this. I found a chkdsk fragment on the flash card which indicates a file error on there, a drive assignment letter problem and a problem with the CDROM player which although seems to work initially has errors - the combination of which is pretty confusing.

I managed to make the card bootable with dos so I'm going to rebuild it with the freedos version it's using, copy over the files and correct any drive letter problems in the batch files and replace the old IDE CDROM.

It's certainly been a fair bit of work so far and some ahead but I'm reasonably confident I can at least get DOS running the batch files and starting the exe on CD. What happens from there is anyone's guess as it's some DOS app talking to another unity via the RS232 port.

UPDATE:

It worked. Used Rufus to put freedos on it, copied over all the additional files from the original card and swapped the optical drive which was then detected as the correct drive letter. Boots up and starts the DOS app. Went over yesterday to plug it into the paint system and it works fine.