HP Pavilion DV6-3225dx laptop problem

[brandonkick]

Hey all,


Let me start off by saying, yes.... I was dumb enough to take on one of these things.
Only because it was the laptop of a good friend, and they don't have much money.
My initial suggestion was dump it, and get a new one or even a different used machine.

The display died due to the notorious issues these machines have, it over heated and the gpu
died. So I had to replace the motherboard. I tear it down to get exact info off of the board
and in doing so I damage the wifi radio wire connectors... great so I order a set of those
for $5 and in taking the screen off one of the mounts for the laptops display break...even
better so I order one of those as well. I'm now eating $22 on this repair for the stuff I broke.
I'm not charging him anything for the repair either, again they are living dollar to dollar right now.

I cannot find an exact replacement for this motherboard. I find an hp motherboard that match the
633383-001 but not the 7F10A4 under it. This is on the (Replace with XXX) sticker. All of the other
numbers on both the replacement board and the original board matched and the motherboards look
100% identical. Same processor and everything. I got the replacement for $49 off of the Ascendtech website. The tear down wasn't bad, putting it back together wasn't as fun.

Getting the screen apart and installing the new wireless antenna was not a fun job. I get the whole thing
back together and power it up.... the display comes up and it appears to work just fine. I forget
to plug the motherboard fan in.... so i have to tear it down and plug that in and reassemble. I get that done and
now it boots.... however I notice the new keyboard I ordered isn't working. I replaced the old one because a few keys stopped working. So I swap back in the old keyboard and it won't work either. An external USB keyboard works just fine.

I'm baffled as to why neither keyboard works? Do I need a specific keyboard? Is there some trick to getting it to work? I've tried uninstalling it in the device manager... but that doesn't work.

These keyboards were both for the 3225dx, if these keyboards are wrong for this motherboard how on earth am I going to find the correct one for this motherboard?

I'm about to the point of where I part this machine out. Get them a nice used thinkpad, transfer everything over
and try to recoup as much as I can out of the part out. I will never work on another DV6 machine again, maybe even another HP machine again.

 

[sapphirescales]

In your defense, these machines are absolute garbage and are full or problems. On the other hand however, you mention a lot of mistakes you've made during disassembly and reassembly. You have to be extremely careful with all laptops (not just this one). I'd say you probably damaged something when you put the motherboard in.

I recommend scrapping this hunk of junk and getting them a used Dell Latitude or HP Probook. But it would seem that this computer isn't your only problem. I would definitely practice on a LOT more laptops before you take on a job like this again. Granted, you did what I consider to be one of the most horrible and difficult things to do with ANY laptop. But the mistakes you made are inexcusable for a seasoned technician. I mean no offense here. We're all at different levels and there's nothing wrong with making mistakes. I'm just saying, you need more practice. You shouldn't have taken the job if you couldn't disassemble and reassemble the laptop without issue.

Eat the $150 and get them a nice refurbished Dell Latitude or HP Probook with an i5 processor. Tell them that they can pay you back when they can, but don't hold them to it if you don't want to. I've done charity work before, and without fail, their issues are MUCH worse than anything you'd get normally. It figures since you're doing it for free or at cost. That's why I don't do any charity for friends or family unless I'm prepared to lose at least $150 by buying them a new business class laptop if theirs isn't fixable for a reasonable amount.

 

[Diggs]

The GPU doesn't actually fail in these. They get very hot and eventually d-solder from the motherboard. We re-flow the GPU quick and dirty and then copper shim to the heat-sink instead of that foamy crap they use. But - We first explain to the customer that the other alternative is a new motherboard so they may as well buy another laptop cause it isn't worth it. We also explain that we could toast their current GPU/motherboard and their computer is dead. In turn, I don't know how cost effective it is but it usually takes us less than an hour and no one else will even go there. We give no warranty on this job. We're 100% successful but only done 5 boards.

 

[OaksLabs]

As @Diggs said, you can re-flow the old board. Here's how I do it:

1. Get yourself a heat gun, the hair-dryer like device used for removing old paint. ~$20-$40
2. Remove everything from the old board: heat sinks, plastic sheets, the CMOS battery, cards, CPU, etc.
3. Hold the heat gun ~4-6 inches from the board, and turn it to it's high setting.
4. Slowly move the gun over the board...use slow even "strokes," as if you were painting. Make sure to move over the whole board.
5. Let the board cool, flip it over, and repeat.

Now, this is only a temporary fix. I've never tried doing a shim of the heatsink as @Diggs suggested, but if you just reassemble it in 6-9 months it will have the same issue again. Keep in mind that you could make things WORSE if you melt something accidently with the heat gun. In the shop I'm known for "crunchy" frankenstein repairs like this. As @sapphirescales said, it's best to have a fair bit of practice with repairs like this. If you can scrounge up some dead laptops to practice on I'd highly recommend it.

 

[brandonkick]

@sapphirescales

I appreciate the advice. I could have just left out the parts about me breaking the hinge studs in the
case bottom and the wifi radio connector coming off.... I left them in more for completeness of what
has transpired and to vent a bit. I've probably done around 8 or 10 complete laptop teardowns and
this one has been by far the worst in terms of how things went. The tear down wasn't hard... and I
didn't rush. I'd say I probably had 30 min in tear down and 30 min in reassembly as I was going slow
on purpose. It seems like the hinge mount was weak and it just snapped, I'm sure we've all done it.
As far as the wifi radio wire connector coming off, I just used my standard jeweler screw driver to pop
it off and when it let go the wire came out of the connector. Forgetting to plug the motherboard fan back
in was a blunder, but just a missed step.... again it has happened to the best of us. I really doubt I did
anything to damage the motherboard.

I don't do many laptops, and I won't do many more in my life. I don't even do much break fix stuff any more
aside from my own personal machines. I do software development for a living, the break/fix is just a hobby
and this was one of those "one in a million" chances. I won't touch another HP Pavilion machine that's for sure.

One thing I forgot to mention is that the keyboard will work, only when first booting the machine, to press ESC
key to get to the system settings. After that it quits working, even inside the system settings menu. No other keys
ever work. This is the same on the original and the old keyboard.

I just might try to get (borrow) a heat gun and "reflow" the old board. Nothing lost if it doesn't work.

Another thing to note: This old board didn't have any "pads" on it. There was thermal grease, and quite a lot of it.
I cleaned it all off and put some new MX-2 thermal paste on it.

 

[Mainstay]

@brandonkick : no good deed goes unpunished, eh?

The "on a shoe string, woe is me" customers (whether they be non-profit, friends, family, etc.) can be a bottomless pit into which there is no escape.

Navigating these waters while still maintaining the relationship is a tough game.

YES, we've all made this mistake.

Now, I listen to their tale of woe and then shake my head and say, "damn, that really sucks. I think Staples/LondonDrugs/Dell/whatever, has some really good deals going on right now. You can EASILY replace it for less than you would spend on repairs for this HP/Acer/Asus/whatever. After-all, you wouldn't want to throw good money after bad."

And if that doesn't work, I usually pull from my boneyard. A 5 year old Dell Inspiron with a fresh install of W7 will likely be much better than what they had before.

And yes, if the sticker says HP, run.

 

[garyorner]

i have found reflowing to be a bad idea. why? They always come back. IMO it is the chip that goes bad. I have tested this also. I watched a video from a guy that brought this up also.

I will have to dig to find the video but anyways. break down and do your reflow but set your hot air station to about 160 to 180 C and do your reflow. You will find it works just as if you melted the solder. But solder melting point is higher then this. The chip is messed up and this heat causes it to "fix" itself.

The true way to fix it is to reball with a new chip.

I have done hundreds of reflows before i learned this. I did not see all come back. Probably because i lost a customer. I no longer do reflows even if requested. I will do reballs with new chips if I can find them.... (hard hard hard to find) but most of the time sell a new or refurbed laptop now. But most reflows i did would come back within 6 months. Some lasted longer and some lasted much shorter time.

I bought a reball machine... templates and jigs. Worst investment i have done. I rarely use it. Because it just is not worth it to the customer with 400 dollar laptops out there. and the issue of finding the chips.

As to your issue. Tear down laptops to practice. But i know your issue. no two laptops are the same. Screws sometimes everywhere. DV series are paper weights IMO.

 

[altrenda]

This must not be for a really good friend because after all is said and done, even if you get it to work, you will have spent a lot of time and effort to give them back a steaming pile that might break down at any time.

If they paid you to fix it, then when it breaks again, they will blame you no matter what you tell them. And if you are doing it for free, you are losing money and spending a lot of time, and you'll wind up resenting your friend and hating them almost as much as you hate the laptop.

Speaking from experience. Something like this.cost me a friendship.

 

[Diggs]

There seems to be some contradicting info above. A couple of points to those that may be curious.

• Temps top out at 250 C. Google "reflow curve" for time/temp heat curve to follow.
• Mask the entire board off in double layers of heavy aluminum foil. Cut a window for the GPU chip for heating. Heat only the chip.
  
• We use both infrared and thermocouple temperature monitors. (Extremely cheap to buy.)
  
• Use flux to aid the flow.

If you don't re-shim the GPU to the heat sink with something better it will fail again. (Cleaning out the wad of cat hair on the cooler is just a temporary solution.) Although I haven't kept track of all five we have done, I know three are still in daily use.

And again, our conversation with the customer basically starts off with "Your computer is junk, this is a Hail Mary" to save it. No guarantees/warranties.

 

[brandonkick]

@altrenda

They are good friends, this is basically one of the few really good friends I do have.
From the moment I first laid eyes on this laptop I told them the potential problems
and that was around a year and a half to two years ago. I have already maid up my
mind that the solution is to move them on to a nice little used machine. For the time
being, they are going to use this machine with an external keyboard. I'm hunting a
deal on a nice used one to fix up a little and transfer their stuff. I'll then part out this
DV6 and cut my losses..

This is a good friend, and they have helped me out more than a few times. Financially
he may be in a tough spot, but he'd help me any way he could and vice versa. That's the main
reason I took on the job.... I saw the $50 motherboard and thought a swap would have them
off to the races. All it would cost me is an hour of my time or so I thought. Any time or money
lost doesn't really matter to me in this case, it's not the same as if I were doing this for some
person off the street.

@Diggs

Thanks for the information. I appreciate the time you've spent in gathering it. I think the
main reason I'm opting to just migrate them to a newer used machine is that as you've
mentioned even if I get a successful repair odds are against the longevity. I don't have
the tooling / material / ability to do the copper shim thing.... I put it back on with thermal
grease.

 

[garyorner]

There seems to be some contradicting info above. A couple of points to those that may be curious.

• Temps top out at 250 C. Google "reflow curve" for time/temp heat curve to follow.
• Mask the entire board off in double layers of heavy aluminum foil. Cut a window for the GPU chip for heating. Heat only the chip.
  
• We use both infrared and thermocouple temperature monitors. (Extremely cheap to buy.)
  
• Use flux to aid the flow.

If you don't re-shim the GPU to the heat sink with something better it will fail again. (Cleaning out the wad of cat hair on the cooler is just a temporary solution.) Although I haven't kept track of all five we have done, I know three are still in daily use.

And again, our conversation with the customer basically starts off with "Your computer is junk, this is a Hail Mary" to save it. No guarantees/warranties.

This is my point. You do not have to even get hot enough to melt solder to make it work again. 99% of the time the chip is failing due to over heating. I really do mean I have done hundreds of these until I did this test. I heated to around 160 to 180 C and the chip worked again. This told me the solder was not the issue. I tested on ten machines with known GPU issues. all but one worked again heating only to 160 C.

The chips are crap chips. The heat sinks are crap too. The whole design is crap on them HP/Compaqs.

Same with PS3 and Xbox 360 also the new gen PS4 and Xbox 1. The chips seem to be easier to get for the PS3 and Xbox so reballing a new chip seems to work but you still have the same crappy chip.

That link is to a video I was linked to here when I was asking about which BGA Rework station to purchase.I tried what he said and he was right. I still bought a BGA rework station. Rarely use it......

The problem with these laptops are they are junk. Get a new motherboard is going to be hard. Most will be puled from a "working" laptop so you still are putting the same junk into it. Same with putting a new chip on the board. Sure reflowing does make it work again. I went down that path for years. the DV series laptops and PS3 and Xbox 360 all fail. I made money. I shimmed shoot I seen many come in shimmed with pennies 1982 and prior.

I have stacks and stacks of DV series HP... Some Toshibas.... PS3 and 360s all with GPU issues.

Just trying to offer an opinion of someone that has been down that path

 

[brandonkick]

Thanks all for the advice.

I purchased a Thinkpad T420 on eBay in good shape
and is better specs then what they had. I got a good
deal on it so I'm going to set this up one for them, part
out the old one and call it a day.

Thanks again

 

[Ktex]

I just had a dv6 brought in yesterday! Yep, they make a great doorstop after you take out the hard drive, memory and screen, nothing else is useful.... keyboard you say? Not many customers want a used dirty keyboard.