Is 4G a Myth??

Skillachi

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according to cnnmoney:

You've seen the 4G advertisements from T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon, bragging about a much-better wireless network with blazing fast speeds.

Here's the secret the carriers don't advertise: 4G is a myth. Like the unicorn, it hasn't been spotted anywhere in the wild just yet -- and won't be any time in the near future.

The International Telecommunication Union, the global wireless standards-setting organization, determined last month that 4G is defined as a network capable of download speeds of 100 megabits per second (Mbps). That's fast enough to download an average high-definition movie in about three minutes.

None of the new networks the carriers are rolling out meet that standard.

Sprint (NYSE: S - News) was the first to launch a network called 4G, going live with it earlier this year. Then, T-Mobile launched its 4G network, claiming to be "America's largest 4G network." Verizon (NYSE: VZ - News) plans to launch its 4G network by the end of the year, which it claims will be the nation's largest and the fastest. AT&T (NYSE: T - News) is expected to unveil its 4G network next year.

Those networks have theoretical speeds of a fifth to a half that of the official 4G standard. The actual speeds the carriers say they'll achieve are just a tenth of "real" 4G.

So why are the carriers calling these networks 4G?

It's mostly a matter of PR, industry experts say. Explaining what the wireless carriers' new networks shouldbe called, and what they'll be capable of, is a confusing mess.

To illustrate: Sprint bought a majority stake in Clearwire (Nasdaq: CLWR - News), which uses a new network technology called WiMAX that's capable of speeds ranging from 3 Mbps to 10 Mbps. That's a different technology from Verizon's new network, based on a standard called Long Term Evolution (LTE), which will average 5 Mbps to 12 Mbps.

Seeing what its competitors were up to, T-Mobile opted to increase the speed capabilities of its existing 3G-HSPA+ network instead of pursuing a new technology. Its expanded network -- now called 4G -- will reach speeds of 5 Mbps to 12 Mbps.

No matter what they're called, all of these upgrades are clear improvements -- and the carriers shelled out billions to make them. Current "3G" networks offer actual speeds that range from between 500 kilobits per second to 1.5 Mbps.

So Sprint and Verizon have new, faster networks that are still technically not 4G, while T-Mobile has an old, though still faster network that is actually based on 3G technology.

Confused yet? That's why they all just opted to call themselves "4G."

The carriers get defensive about the topic.

"It's very misleading to make a decision about what's 4G based on speed alone," said Stephanie Vinge-Walsh, spokeswoman for Sprint Nextel. "It is a challenge we face in an extremely competitive industry."

T-Mobile did not respond to a request for comment.

One network representative, who asked not to be identified, claimed that ITU's 4G line-in-the-sand is being misconstrued. The organization previously approved the use of the term "4G" for Sprint's WiMAX and Verizon's LTE networks, he said -- though not for T-Mobile's HSPA+ network.

ITU's PR department ignored that approval in its recent statement about how future wireless technologies would be measured, the representative said. ITU representatives were not immediately available for comment.

"I'm not getting into a technical debate," said Jeffrey Nelson, spokesman for Verizon Wireless. "Consumers will quickly realize that there's really a difference between the capabilities of various wireless data networks. All '4G' is not the same."

And that's what's so difficult. The term 4G has become meaningless and confusing as hell for wireless customers.

For instance, T-Mobile's 4G network, which is technically 3G, will have speeds that are at least equal to -- and possibly faster -- than Verizon's 4G-LTE network at launch. At the same time, AT&T's 3G network, which is also being scaled up like T-Mobile's, is not being labeled "4G."

That's why some industry experts predict that the term "4G" will soon vanish.

"The labeling of wireless broadband based on technical jargon is likely to fade away in 2011," said Dan Hays, partner at industry consultancy PRTM. "That will be good news for the consumer. Comparing carriers based on their network coverage and speed will give them more facts to make more informed decisions."

Hays expects that independent researchers -- or the Federal Communications Commission -- will step in next year to perform speed and coverage tests.

Meanwhile, don't expect anyone to hold the carriers' feet to the fire.

"Historically, ITU's classification system has not held a great degree of water and has not been used to enforce branding," Hays said. "Everyone started off declaring themselves to be 4G long before the official decision on labeling was made. The ITU was three to four years too late to make an meaningful impact on the industry's use of the term."

Link: http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/111455/4g-is-a-myth-and-confusing
 
myth or not, whatever they are calling 4G is fast.

Sprint doesn't have it here in Central IL. but i was in chicago a few weeks ago and got to use it.
I can't wait for it here.
 
Yeah, it's not "real" 4G, but it's fast enough that I replaced my cable internet with it. I have a Clear hotspot that I carry around for jobs and use at home and I'm very satisfied with it. When WiMax2 comes out, hopefully the equipment will easily convert over and it'll be that much faster.
 
Skillachi...

What?:confused:

Look, I am a Verizon Wireless rep, and have been for 5 years.

I am not particularly loyal to any one Wireless company, nor am I offended by your post, but when I read it I just laughed!

Saying 4G is a myth is like Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust was also.

Just sayin...
 
Skillachi...

What?:confused:

Look, I am a Verizon Wireless rep, and have been for 5 years.

I am not particularly loyal to any one Wireless company, nor am I offended by your post, but when I read it I just laughed!

Saying 4G is a myth is like Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust was also.

Just sayin...

Sounds like it's CNN Money is saying it, rather than the OP. Perhaps it's worthwhile to differentiate between semantics and performance.

Does Verizon's (or anyone else's) service meet the definition of 4G?

"The International Telecommunication Union, the global wireless standards-setting organization, determined last month that 4G is defined as a network capable of download speeds of 100 megabits per second (Mbps)."
 
Skillachi...

What?:confused:

Look, I am a Verizon Wireless rep, and have been for 5 years.

I am not particularly loyal to any one Wireless company, nor am I offended by your post, but when I read it I just laughed!

Saying 4G is a myth is like Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust was also.

Just sayin...

I Hear your point but am just the messenger please don't shoot me, you should give the International Telecommunication Union a call so they can educate you, just saying....
 
I used to sell clearwire, I honestly could tell a difference from the wireless speeds with eh 4g from the 3g but it was nothing to make me go crazy i think top speed id get was maybe 2.5 megabits down. But its not what they make it seem with blazing speeds, that it can replace your home provider, as clear was selling it to be. I still top off 19 megabit down with cox, here in vegas for the $50 I give them monthly, No one can top that here in town.
 
Verizon's 4G is just going live now. But its not going to work with smartphones just yet its for mobile internet.

"Users can choose from two plans of either $50 for 5 GB of data or $80 for 10 GB of data. Overages will run $10 for every GB of data that customers consume.

Download speeds being advertised are what was previously announced. Customers should expect download speeds between 5-12 Mbps and uploads between 2-5 Mbps. Verizon also said that network latency on 4G LTE is half of their existing 3G network." -androidandme.com

What I get a kick out of is the Verizon PR guy was quoted as saying it will take about 1hr to hit the 5GB data cap with the new 4G speeds. :eek:
Thanks going to make for some major bill shock for a lot of people.
 
Skillachi...

What?:confused:

Look, I am a Verizon Wireless rep, and have been for 5 years.

I am not particularly loyal to any one Wireless company, nor am I offended by your post, but when I read it I just laughed!

Saying 4G is a myth is like Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust was also.

Just sayin...
4 Replies and already Godwin'd!
 
What I get a kick out of is the Verizon PR guy was quoted as saying it will take about 1hr to hit the 5GB data cap with the new 4G speeds.
Yeah, I got a kick out of that too. If you are continuously downloading at 10Mb/s, then you'll hit 4.5GB in an hour, so on paper that's somewhat true, but not in reality.
 
Not sure what your wanting me to comment on, I said not a myth, I guess you disagree, no worries.

You invoked Godwin's Law which is the point. Your position is weakened by mentioning anything about Nazi's as it's an appeal to an emotional argument rather than any meaningful debate. Furthermore, you likened taking the position "There is no 4G" to being akin to being a Holocaust Denier which is preposterous.

Did you mean to do this? Hell if I know, all I know is that is how it comes across to other people and your "I'm a Verizon Wireless Rep but I don't take it personal" looks rather hollow when you stoop to such tactics.

Saying "it's faster than 3G" would be factual, however 4G (4th Generation) should have an agreed upon Technical meaning as did the former 3G, 2.5G, 2G, etc. Otherwise we only have a confusing marketplace filled with people that claim 4G is one thing or another which are nothing alike and incompatible with each other.

Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerem
 
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It is a lie there is no 4G in American yet and I can't comment on other nations would have to research it and I don't see the point. It bothers me that we are being lied to and they are getting away with false advertising. I am happy to have increased speeds and performance just don't call it something its not.
 
It is a lie there is no 4G in American yet and I can't comment on other nations would have to research it and I don't see the point. It bothers me that we are being lied to and they are getting away with false advertising. I am happy to have increased speeds and performance just don't call it something its not.

So you're upset about the semantics? I doubt there are many people who know the written standards of 4G. To those people, sure, they are being lied to. Otherwise, for the rest of the country, it's just a branding that they've put on their faster network.
 
So you're upset about the semantics? I doubt there are many people who know the written standards of 4G. To those people, sure, they are being lied to. Otherwise, for the rest of the country, it's just a branding that they've put on their faster network.

I'm upset that if it isn't truly 4G and they are advertising it as 4G that is false advertising and they are getting away with it. I'm also upset I'm stuck with AT&T until I make more money and can get off my company cell phone plans and afford one with a carrier that works.
 
So you're upset about the semantics? I doubt there are many people who know the written standards of 4G. To those people, sure, they are being lied to. Otherwise, for the rest of the country, it's just a branding that they've put on their faster network.

Lies aren't based on the recipient of a lie knowing the truth to be otherwise.

Lies are based on the person telling the lie knowing otherwise.

Therefore it doesn't matter if the general public knows what the actual standards are for 4G to be.

It's kind of like them saying "Unlimited Data" and capping off at 5Gb.
 
I'm upset that if it isn't truly 4G and they are advertising it as 4G that is false advertising and they are getting away with it.
So you are upset with the semantics, then. Got it.

Lies aren't based on the recipient of a lie knowing the truth to be otherwise.

Lies are based on the person telling the lie knowing otherwise.

Therefore it doesn't matter if the general public knows what the actual standards are for 4G to be.
But it would ignorant to assume that effect of the lie and the circumstances surrounding it doesn't dictate the level of distrust and disgust that we feel. That's the reason "white lies" exist. They're branding their faster network with a logical next step: 4G. Sure it's not 4G by some arbitrary standards, but how does that affect the consumers? The average speeds are published, and nobody is at the arbitrary 4G standards, so if they called it 4G or 3G-UltraFast, would the consumer action change?

It's kind of like them saying "Unlimited Data" and capping off at 5Gb.
No, it's nothing like that. The fact that I assume my data is unlimited changes the way I use the service, and can potentially cost me a great deal of money. Whether it's 4G or 3G-UltraFast, I use the service the same. Sure, if I knew the published rates, I might start using it differently, but in doing so, I just become disappointed. It's not going to cost me $1000 in overage charges, which has happened often with your scenario.
 
But it would ignorant to assume that effect of the lie and the circumstances surrounding it doesn't dictate the level of distrust and disgust that we feel. That's the reason "white lies" exist. They're branding their faster network with a logical next step: 4G. Sure it's not 4G by some arbitrary standards, but how does that affect the consumers? The average speeds are published, and nobody is at the arbitrary 4G standards, so if they called it 4G or 3G-UltraFast, would the consumer action change?

Every commercial I've seen shows 4G it doesn't say (We're not really 4G but it's faster than 3G). Some commercials even claim to be the "FIRST 4G". Which is a lofty claim until you realize that anyone can define 4G as "faster than standard 3G". The consumer action would change if their requirements were built around a term that is loosely defined only to find out they have to redefine their requirements because other networks define 4G differently. Consumers being a business in this case or Government contract.

If someone comes up with a network that bumps their download speeds to 20mb/s and still has that 5gb limit in place, but calls it 5G, what then? Than 3 days later sprint bumps up to 25mb/s and calls it 6G what then?

It's turning into a dumbed down branding when terms actually mean something. Doesn't make it any less of a lie that consumers are ignorant.

No, it's nothing like that. The fact that I assume my data is unlimited changes the way I use the service, and can potentially cost me a great deal of money. Whether it's 4G or 3G-UltraFast, I use the service the same. Sure, if I knew the published rates, I might start using it differently, but in doing so, I just become disappointed. It's not going to cost me $1000 in overage charges, which has happened often with your scenario.

Most people will never hit the 5gb limit on a smart phone, and if they do they were only capped over here, they weren't charged overages unless my memory is way off. What is the problem is that it's said to be one thing and it's really another. Again it's a lie you can classify it as a white lie, a "no recess after lunch for you" lie, or however you want. A lie is a lie is a lie.
 
Every commercial I've seen shows 4G it doesn't say (We're not really 4G but it's faster than 3G). Some commercials even claim to be the "FIRST 4G". Which is a lofty claim until you realize that anyone can define 4G as "faster than standard 3G". The consumer action would change if their requirements were built around a term that is loosely defined only to find out they have to redefine their requirements because other networks define 4G differently. Consumers being a business in this case or Government contract.

If someone comes up with a network that bumps their download speeds to 20mb/s and still has that 5gb limit in place, but calls it 5G, what then? Than 3 days later sprint bumps up to 25mb/s and calls it 6G what then?

It's turning into a dumbed down branding when terms actually mean something. Doesn't make it any less of a lie that consumers are ignorant.

Most people will never hit the 5gb limit on a smart phone, and if they do they were only capped over here, they weren't charged overages unless my memory is way off. What is the problem is that it's said to be one thing and it's really another. Again it's a lie you can classify it as a white lie, a "no recess after lunch for you" lie, or however you want. A lie is a lie is a lie.
They never capped smart phones, they capped modems, which yes, many people went over and were charged a great deal in overages.

I found your problem. You're whole argument is that they are lying. Yes, they are. I'm not arguing that they aren't lying. My argument is more meaningful: their lying is in the same realm as me telling my wife that she doesn't look fat (Exaggeration, don't jump on me about literals), and that getting upset about it is a waste of time; it shouldn't be upsetting.
 
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