[WARNING] Linux still not so much fun

[Metanis]

Like many computer techs I've accumulated a lot of hardware over the years. A few days ago I gathered up some bits and pieces and decided to build a new Linux Mint box. For example I have a nice Gigabyte AMD motherboard with a Phenom II X6 1100T 3.3GHz CPU and 8GB of RAM. Even though 8 years old that's still a very capable CPU.

Since I had 3 identical Sata-II 160GB drives I'd thought I'd build a fast little Raid-0 array since reliability wasn't really a concern.

2 full days later and I still can't get Linux Mint 19 to install or boot on that raid array. First I tried the fake hardware raid built into the Gigabyte motherboard. But there doesn't appear to be any way to 'insert' a raid driver during Linux setup. The Linux installer actually recognizes the Raid array but is determined to ignore it as a valid installation destination. It want's to install directly onto the first actual hardware drive /dev/sda.

So then I decided to use the Linux software raid utility MDADM and forget the motherboard. Well sure you can boot the live setup DVD and create the raid and you can even get Mint to install to it but you can't make it bootable once the installation is over. It doesn't appear to be able to figure out how to install the various grub and bootloader components without a serious session of command-line hand holding with root privileges.

I'm sure there is a way to do it but after reading dozens of message board threads nothing actually works. It seems you have to become a Linux boot configuration specialist in order to figure out the right combination of commands.

Now with Windows 7 I simply copied the Raid driver to an old flash drive and inserted it during the installation and chose to install the driver before choosing the Raid array as a valid installation target. It booted normally and without me issuing a single command.

Oh yes, there's plenty of threads out there to assist you. But most of them pertain to Raid 1 and the procedure doesn't work on Raid 0. Or they recommend you install Linux to a single disk first and then clone the installation to your raid array. Or the instructions pertain to GPT and EFI bios partitions and not MBR. Or they assume you understand the purpose and syntax of the 45-step procedure you need to follow and can correctly substitute the correct variables based on your specific parameters. (I'm not joking, it was a 45-step process on the particular site/thread I was reading!)

I can distinctly understand Microsoft's willingness to remove their corporate focus from their OS products. They can coast for another 20 years before Linux will truly challenge them for market share.

Anyway, this was just a rant. I'll throw a Server 2016 eval key on there instead. Or maybe a preview of 2019.

 

[Diggs]

Hmm.... I don't think it's accurate to rate all of Linux over the fact that you can't easily boot RAID 0 (which is incredibly rare in the Linux world).

 

[DataMedics]

Option A: Don't use RAID 0 for boot (this is the smart option)
Option B: Use a cheap hardware RAID card
Option C: Try installing a different build

Linux installer may not make this easy because they probably don't assume anyone would ever want to do it. It's just asking for trouble to boot from a RAID 0 and likely won't result in any speed advantage unless you're using hardware RAID anway.

 

[phaZed]

What model is the motherboard? It's likely there is no driver for the RAID, which is why it wasn't picked up... otherwise it may have some specific requirements.

 

[Markverhyden]

To do hardware RAID in linux you need a real RAID card. I can guarantee you that the RAID on your motherboard is not a real RAID set. It's a software RAID which Windoze can natively handle. A real RAID card easily runs at least 200-300 new. When you install Linux you'll first build the array in the BIOS utility. You'll know it a real RAID because you will only see what was built. Even if you enter a config in the fake RAID it'll still show you the individual drives.

 

[Computer Bloke]

Option A: Don't use RAID 0 for boot (this is the smart option)

You really could have stopped there.

 

[Altster]

If you are going to want to do a raid with 3 drives, I suggest RAID-5 with a dedicated controller.

Otherwise, just install Mint 19 to the first drive and go from there. I have a 500 GB as my 1st drive and a 2 TB as my data drive in my Mint 18.3 setup and it works quite well for what I use it for. And it is my primary computer.

Don't blame Mint for this issue. It has taken me some time to learn it (still do all the time) and some great help from other Linux users.

 

[Metanis]

Thank you all for replying.

Why Raid 0? It's incredibly fast. Like SSD fast even using 10 year old commodity hard drives.

And 10 year old Windows 7 can handle it with ease.

And many of you missed the part where I stated I used Linux built-in raid software AFTER the motherboard fake raid wouldn't work. At that point the motherboard and controller no longer mattered. (That's the part where I talk about MDADM!) And it still can't be installed cleanly or simply. I don't blame Linux, there's obviously not enough developer resources to handle these types of edge cases cleanly.

I would recommend for your own in-house or experimental use to try 3-disk Raid 0. You'll be amazed at the responsiveness. Put some of those stacks of old drives to use! Even stodgy old Win7 is quite peppy.

 

[Markverhyden]

Yes RAID 0 is fast. Also very risky if you don't have a reliable backup system. Add a 4rth drive and do 10.

 

[Diggs]

RAID 0 is very fragile. I've never been able to get RAID 0 to run reliably and that was under Windows. A simple sector fail and reallocate on a standard single HDD (an easily recoverable event) is usually a failure of the whole RAID under RAID 0.

 

[trevm999]

Why don't you compare apples to apples? Try using Windows software RAID to boot to RAID 0

 

[coffee]

I would always recommend a Hardware raid controller if you want to mirror your OS drives and boot them. I do have to say that running your OS on a RAID 0 is just inviting disaster. Incompatibilities, Hardware problems, Software glitches (Windows updates and rewrites something in its boot and destroys raid) not to mention when things go wrong you have to figure out how to repair it.

However, The basic premise for running software raid on the OS and booting goes like this:

Boot from CD/DVD/Whatever:
Create a degraded RAID
Create your /boot, / , Home , Swap partitions on degraded raid.
Boot the degraded raid
Add drives to raid.

How you do this with exact steps changes all the time as updates and upgrades are frequent. I used to run a software raid1 with Linux Mint and decided against it and now use a hardware raid card. What you should do is get over to the Mint forums and ask for a supported hardware raid card for your computer.

Holding Linux at fault on this point is not justified. There are good reasons that something like this is not built into the install process unless you have hardware raid. Besides, Why waste valuable programing hours on something that is not recommended? Especially RAID0.

 

[Markverhyden]

Why don't you compare apples to apples? Try using Windows software RAID to boot to RAID 0

Wonder if there is a pun in there somewhere?

 

[Altster]

Yes RAID 0 is fast. Also very risky if you don't have a reliable backup system. Add a 4rth drive and do 10.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Metanis]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It seems nobody read my original post. I didn't give a damn about reliability. It was just a goof box to play with Linux.

 

[Computer Bloke]

It seems nobody read my original post.

No, we all read it. It's just that none of us could believe you were seriously trying to do this.

 

[NJW]

It was just a goof box to play with Linux.

But then you threw out a rant (your word) about how useless Linux is at unreasonable configurations (my words).

I could use a power drill to stir my coffee, but I wouldn't get much sympathy for a rant that said it sent hot coffee everywhere and broke the cup, therefore power drills are still not good enough for mainstream use.

 

[sapphirescales]

Yes, Linux is pretty crappy as a desktop OS. That being said, RAID is something I've always avoided whenever possible for regular desktop computers. RAID works well in servers and NAS boxes. I wouldn't expect that setup to work very well even if you loaded Windows on it. With Linux it would be even more of a pain in the a$$. Linux works great for custom hardware/software environments and servers. As a general purpose desktop operating system, it falls flat on its face due to its complexity and lack of software support and drivers.

 

[GTP]

Yes, Linux is pretty crappy as a desktop OS...... As a general purpose desktop operating system, it falls flat on its face due to its complexity....

 

[sapphirescales]

View attachment 9731

We get it. You're a Linux fanboy. If Linux were really a good general purpose desktop operating system, OEM manufactures like HP and Dell would be jumping all over it. Do you really think they like giving Microsoft money for each Windows license? Of course not. They do it because Windows is the only viable option because nobody supports Linux. Linux isn't inherently bad. It just doesn't have any support from manufacturers and software developers. It's the same story with the Windows Store - and that's why Windows RT failed, and why Windows 10 S will fail. In the end the operating system itself doesn't matter. It's the software support that matters. Linux is so fragmented and doesn't support any major software other than browsers.

The reason Android succeeded where Linux on the desktop failed all comes down to software support and support from OEM's. And that's why Microsoft doesn't own the smartphone market. They got in too late and because nothing supports Windows Mobile, it died. Windows Mobile was actually a great OS - far superior to Android and iOS in many ways. But without software support, an OS is nothing. Hence why Linux on the desktop is nothing.