Locked out of Microsoft account

[MudRock]

Even then I doubt anything will change. End users have no right to anything, because they aren't PAYING for anything. They are the product, and products have no rights.

Now, should something like this happen we might be able to generate enough political will to get our government to create digital property rights, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

But they are. They are paying for a Microsoft Windows licence, whether it be OEM or Retail. Microsoft has even skirted their legal requirements by shirking all responsibilities to the SIs for service, which I guarantee Dell and Lenovo couldn't get you back in (Nor would they care to do so.)

I get the whole "If you're not paying, you're the product." -- Windows is sold to us, and then we are promptly pushed on using a Microsoft account so they can track you better; forced to Edge as a browser, which forces you to use Bing (ESPECIALLY if you're stuck in S Mode); Pushed to use the Microsoft Store (Even to a point of where if you want to exit S Mode, you have to use the Store AND have a Microsoft account.); Forcing conversion of your local log-in account to a Microsoft account by not providing clear enough terminology when signing into ANYTHING Microsoft on your computer (Mail, Store, etc); to being forced to "eat" Candy Crush; To having apps sideloaded onto your device from Microsoft even after installation; To no easy way to remove all the tiles put on your start clearly trying to push you to use a preinstalled app.

Microsoft is definitely playing the game where you are the purchaser, and still the product, to a point of their dialog of you being the product to a risk of your personal data for this dialog.

They probably don't make a lot on Windows itself; It is there to sell you and your employer on Microsoft 365, AD, Azure AD, Azure, and their other offerings.

Edit: I get it. Home is cheap comparatively. We used to all dive on Pro to avoid some of the Microsoft crap. Heck, now with Windows 11, unless you want to get super crafty, you can't even sign into Home with a local account even if you wanted to. Fresh install of Pro is still slathered with garbage at that. We get pushed S Mode, but in reality S Mode is nothing more than Microsoft trying to lock down the ecosystem and REALLY push the dialog that you are the product. S Mode, SIs don't get billed for a Home licence until you exit S Mode.

Pro is still riddled with garbage, and now I'm learning Enterprise isn't far off either. Imagine, you're STILL the product when running Windows Enterprise.

Edit #2: Even IF you push for Microsoft log-in for your end users, you have to see the challenges Microsoft is making. And the benefits to an end-user for using their Microsoft account to sign in is near zero, most of which are perceived benefits or "You don't get search history on all devices and shorter app history in task view" feature-neutering; and its potential implications are high.

Edit #3: Shouldn't be able to use a Microsoft account to lock down your device in any form without some concrete methods in place to recover the account even directly on the computer which is logging in; Take more identifying details on a user, push the dialog of more than one 2FA option set up, or otherwise.

It is funny; If you have ever PAID for something on your Microsoft account, it is stupid easy to recover the account. Make an account right from the Windows set up page? It doesn't prompt you for any further recovery information.

On top of that, more and more devices, especially ones coming with Pro to start with, also start with BitLocker turned on by default. Default option is to "Secure" your BitLocker codes inside of your Microsoft account; Great except if you get locked out, banned, etc. Can't log into computer, can't recover data because your code is in your Microsoft account, and because you're using LibreOffice instead of paying for Microsoft Office? Nope, kiss your data goodbye. And good luck cracking XTS-AES.

 

[britechguy]

ESPECIALLY if you're stuck in S Mode

Not arguing your point, but I really want to know who among us has even encountered a machine in S Mode?

I know that there are some here who have, but I'd bet the count of S Mode machines they've ever touched is very low. S Mode just never took off, and anyone I know of who has touched it was generally for the purpose of getting the machine out of it.

Am I living in a bubble? Is there somewhere that S Mode actually took off in a big way? I know that educational institutions (below college level) were the intended target demographic, but it never seems to have gained any real traction there, either. It is yet another of Microsoft's efforts that were stillborn.

 

[Sky-Knight]

S mode is becoming more common, and very common on very low end devices. But typically they're entering our space because the client wants that crap removed.

But otherwise yes, S mode did take off in a big way, in the disposable Wallmart specials that sell in volumes well in excess of anything we all see. Into a market that never gets them "fixed" or "serviced".

 

[nlinecomputers]

You’re in a bit of a bubble because lots of low end machines shipped with it. Microsoft didn’t intend for it being in retail but in order to get discounts they had to purchase licenses in lots and that meant putting it in the retail channel. Some will argue that Microsoft always intended it for retail as a means to push the Microsoft store. I’ve heard both from M$. Schizophrenic marketing is SOP with Microsoft.

 

[MudRock]

Not arguing your point, but I really want to know who among us has even encountered a machine in S Mode?

I know that there are some here who have, but I'd bet the count of S Mode machines they've ever touched is very low. S Mode just never took off, and anyone I know of who has touched it was generally for the purpose of getting the machine out of it.

Am I living in a bubble? Is there somewhere that S Mode actually took off in a big way? I know that educational institutions (below college level) were the intended target demographic, but it never seems to have gained any real traction there, either. It is yet another of Microsoft's efforts that were stillborn.

very common on very low end devices. But typically they're entering our space because the client wants that crap removed.

You’re in a bit of a bubble because lots of low end machines shipped with it. Microsoft didn’t intend for it being in retail but in order to get discounts they had to purchase licenses in lots and that meant putting it in the retail channel. Some will argue that Microsoft always intended it for retail as a means to push the Microsoft store. I’ve heard both from M$. Schizophrenic marketing is SOP with Microsoft.

Unfortunately I live in a region where "Budget" is budget to the max. I have seen tons come through my doors to have to help people exit S Mode.

I've also gotten bit by wholesalers not listing S Mode on product listings, on laptops (Lenovo, etc) as high as $900 CDN ($710USD) MSRP units. One with i5, 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM and S Mode. I was VERY choked. They also make it VERY difficult to exit for a client unless they provide a valid Microsoft account/pass.

I had tried for a while with "exitsmode001@<something>.com" - Even though technically you can have up to 5 exits on one Microsoft account, if they catch on you're using it to exit S Modes in bulk at any level, they just block the account AND THEN they'll roll S Mode back onto those units! (Which they claim it is impossible for S Mode to be turned back on, but I've seen it quite a few times.)

I think we will see it invading spaces even moreso. I could also see Lenovo or Dell taking the "Lead" by advertising Cheaper high end units, or "Pay $100 for the Full Windows experience" and end up being another cash grab.

I disagree @nlinecomputers - They may have ACTED like they didn't want S Mode in retail, but when they offer SIs a free licence until someone exits S Mode, you bet your bottom dollar manufacturers will use S Mode everywhere they can. I'm surprised with Lenovo's pace, that anything not loaded with Pro is S Mode out the box.

Microsoft advertises S Mode to the effect of "Speed, Security, Safe Browsing, ...", and yes, the security bit is true because you can't use apps Microsoft doesn't permit, speed because you can't bloat down your auto-run. End of the day, S Mode was made to force you to use Store, hopefully to buy apps because you can't buy/download elsewhere, to force you to use Edge which gives them more data on you to sell/use, and Bing forced default to sell you on ads.

If Microsoft truly believed their own crud, they would have pushed the dialog of this is the hard default across the board, if they truly cared about safety/security, and make it a process (not involving a Microsoft account) to exit S Mode. If you have a Microsoft account, it is stupid easy to exit S Mode and as a scammer, would take a few seconds to walk through exiting S Mode to remote into your computer.

 

[britechguy]

But otherwise yes, S mode did take off in a big way, in the disposable Wallmart specials that sell in volumes well in excess of anything we all see. Into a market that never gets them "fixed" or "serviced".

I will have to look the next time I'm walking through Walmart, but to be honest, I've seen very few machines with S Mode, and most low end machines come up with Windows 10 Home as the listed OS.

I don't doubt that S Mode has been pushed by specific makers on specific boxes, but they don't, in my experience or observation so far, come close to predominating the Windows market, regardless of price point.

And given what I did see of S Mode way back when, many would not readily accept it as "being Windows." It's not "natural" if you've been using any of the Windows Home editions of the past.

I only wish I did have a parade of work that was nothing other than exiting S Mode, as that's probably one of the least complicated problems I'd be routinely presented with. A cash cow, too.