[SOLVED] Need to Extended Wi-Fi Network

[Appletax]

Solution: wireless point-to-point bridge using Ubiquiti products.

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Small car dealership has a nice Linksys MR9000 wireless router connected to Charter Spectrum 100mbps. Works great inside the main office.

They receive a poor signal in their garage (metal building; see image below), which is behind their office in the back. Speeds are 4-5mbps. They want to boost the signal without running cable.

Google distance calc shows 188 feet.

A high-end, home-use-type extender doesn't cut the mustard.

Spoke with Hawking Technology and they recommended this:

HOW12ACM+ POE Included

Super simple to set-up. Connects to existing router.

Hardest part is mounting it outside and getting the Ethernet cable for it outside, which they might be able to do instead of me.

Do you recommend this or something else?

 

[mikeroq]

These are the only two solutions I would do:
a) Run cat6 (prefer fiber) between the buildings.
b) Point to Point wireless bridge between buildings.

I've used various NanoBeam type devices from Ubiquiti to do this. Usually with a small POE switch on the receiving side to power the bridge and AP(s)

Then you will have wired availability in the building (maybe add a switch). and can add whatever wireless accesspoint(s) you need for coverage.

 

[Appletax]

These are the only two solutions I would do:
a) Run cat6 (prefer fiber) between the buildings.
b) Point to Point wireless bridge between buildings.

I've used various NanoBeam type devices from Ubiquiti to do this.

Yea, CAT 6 would be nice, but then they'd have to bury it in the ground with conduit to protect it.

Given that it's not super far away, P2P wireless bridge may be overkill. I think just doing a single, longer-range extender would do the trick???

Ubiquiti = nice.

Can the NanoBeam plug into the Linksys Wi-Fi? Or does it have to plug into another Ubiquiti products such as a router?

 

[mikeroq]

You're going to have degraded signal trying to broadcast wifi into a metal building from the outside (essentially what you have right now). The right way would be the wireless bridge, or a cable, and then putting an access point inside the building. Will give the best performance and stability.

When you setup a wireless bridge like this, with matching/compatible devices on both ends, it should be "transparent". Basically extending a wired connection over wireless. So at the other building when you plug into the connection from the bridge it's just like plugging into the network in the main building.

 

[Appletax]

You're going to have degraded signal trying to broadcast wifi into a metal building from the outside (essentially what you have right now). The right way would be the wireless bridge, or a cable, and then putting an access point inside the building. Will give the best performance and stability.

When you setup a wireless bridge like this, with matching/compatible devices on both ends, it should be "transparent". Basically extending a wired connection over wireless. So at the other building when you plug into the connection from the bridge it's just like plugging into the network in the main building.

Perhaps start with the wireless extender (e.g. a single NanoBeam or a Hawking device) and see how it goes?

If that didn't do the trick, could add another one for a wireless bridge? That'd be pricey with the Hawking solution.

Edit: from a guy on the Ubiquiti forums:

"If you want to do it right, get a pair of Loco 5AC and POE-24-12w injectors."

Excellent solution for a simple PtP bridge

Edit 2:

Yes it is a point to point bridge (AirMAX, not Unifi)

The PoE injector is the AC adapter. You need one for each radio, thus you need two.

The Loco at the garage does not repeat the signal. Attach a Unifi UAP-AC-M to the Loco.

 

[Appletax]

A wireless bridge for 188 feet seems overkill?

Like, I should try out a much better, commercial extender first and see how that goes? One that mounts outside.

Like the Hawking Technologies thing I linked.

Or a Ubiquiti equivalent.

 

[mikeroq]

A wireless bridge is really not overkill. Don't waste time.

Broadcasting wifi into another building especially metal is not going to work well. Doesn't matter really what you put outside. You could put the most powerful wifi access point known to man but it's a two way street. The devices inside the building still have to transmit back and they are far less powerful than the access point.

 

[Appletax]

A wireless bridge is really not overkill. Don't waste time.

Broadcasting wifi into another building especially metal is not going to work well. Doesn't matter really what you put outside. You could put the most powerful wifi access point known to man but it's a two way street. The devices inside the building still have to transmit back and they are far less powerful than the access point.

Good point. Need more power/strength on the garage end for the devices to send data back to the wireless router.

Would be so much cheaper and simpler to just run a cable. Lay it on top of the snow for now and bury it with conduit in the spring/summer.

Thank you.

Now to figure out what all I need from Ubiquiti to get this done.

The Hawking Tech solution would be much more expensive. Like $500.

 

[mikeroq]

Would be so much cheaper and simpler to just run a cable. Lay it on top of the snow for now and bury it with conduit in the spring/summer.

Would it though?

A google search tells me trenching costs can be as low as $2 a foot to $10 a foot. Let's average it at $6. $6 x 188 = $1,128.
This doesn't include the extra labor/conduit costs, which the conduit alone + fittings is going to run over $200.

So now you have a conduit run between two buildings, and now you need to run cable. Hopefully the installer left you a pull string in the conduit.

I would run direct burial CAT6 in the conduit. 200 feet is going to be about $40. Maybe you don't have cable, so you buy a 1000ft roll to get the cable down to $0.20 a foot. Now you spent around $200 and you are left with 800' of cable. Now after you terminate it all, you still get to install an access point in the garage, etc.


Hypothetical what I would install minimum:
2x Nanostation 5AC Loco @ $50 = $100. https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-and-ltu/products/nanostation-loco5ac
2x 12W 24V PoE injector @ $13 = $26. https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-accessories/products/poe-injector-24vdc-12w-gbit
2x Mounting pole for Nanostations, @ $7 = $14. https://store.ui.com/collections/op...-accessories/products/universal-antenna-mount
1x U6-Pro-US Access Point Wifi 6 Pro = $150 https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-wireless/products/unifi-ap6-professional
1x POE injector for the AP if no switch = $13 https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-accessories-poe-injectors/products/u-poe-at


You could also use this as a launching point to get rid of their Linksys router and install a USG or an Untangle/pfsense appliance. Then install another U6-Pro, etc. I put a full Unifi stack into a church, I was really hoping they would spring for replacing all their access points with Ubiquiti. I think they are EnGenius, they have like 6 of them and they all broadcast a different network. Install would be trivial as it would just be swapping out the AP no need to run cable.

Notes:
I would want a switch in the garage so more devices could be wired up.
I usually go for the "pro" access points or similar that use the professional mounting system, it's got holes for all kinds of electrical boxes and t-bar clamp for drop ceilings. Never going back to that plastic mount. That AP comes with that mount.
If you went for a POE switch, or had one on both ends, you could omit all the injectors, and get these for the Nanostation https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-accessories/products/instant-802-3af-adapter to convert standard PoE to the passive POE (my preferred if the device isn't standard PoE so I don't have a bunch of PoE injectors laying around)

Also keep in mind Ubiquiti REALLY wants you to use a surge protector on your cable entry points and used shielded CAT cable with a ESD drain wire.



Personally I'm not too impressed with Hawking stuff. I had a customer buy a couple units and I set them up and I really did not enjoy the experience.

 

[timeshifter]

Also keep in mind Ubiquiti REALLY wants you to use a surge protector on your cable entry points and used shielded CAT cable with a ESD drain wire.

Isn't that an example of why running fiber is a good idea? i.e. plastic doesn't conduct electricity so you're not putting up a lightning rod or two and inviting all that energy into your network?

 

[Appletax]

x

Just realized their Wi-Fi is a mesh-type. The signal gives them 1-2 out of 3 bars in the garage.

What if I bought another one of these and installed it in the garage and connected it to the Wi-Fi?

Use it as a booster.

It appears to be more powerful than a regular booster! The $60 booster I installed further towards the garage didn't even work, whereas they can connect to the Wi-Fi router.

It's on clearance for $150 @ Best Buy. If it doesn't help, I can always return it.

Edit:

The Linksys Wi-Fi says to mesh not with itself (MU9000), but to Linksys Velop Mesh Wi-Fi 5 node.

Solution: turn on bridge mode on an MU9000 in the garage and then it's like a wireless point-to-point system?

Do not want a wired bridge mode:


Looks like I can probably setup wireless bridging using the 2.4GHz band (best coverage) and then broadcast the signal via 5GHz band.

 

[mikeroq]

Isn't that an example of why running fiber is a good idea? i.e. plastic doesn't conduct electricity so you're not putting up a lightning rod or two and inviting all that energy into your network?

Well yes that's why I said before I would prefer fiber between buildings.

 

[phaZed]

For quite a few years now, I am decidedly anti-extender. Extenders are horrible. Mesh networking, bridges, wired or Fiber is the only way to go and I won't even consider an extender with it's WIFI adultery, half-speeding, standards-breaking and device-disconnecting operation.

 

[timeshifter]

Looks like I can probably setup wireless bridging using the 2.4GHz band (best coverage) and then broadcast the signal via 5GHz band.[/URL]

That may work, but your remote location will only have 5GHz WiFi. Wouldn't be surprised if some of their devices only work on 2.4GHz. Then what do you do?

I'm in the same camp as @phaZed ... if it's not a wired backbone or a mesh system with a dedicated backhaul channel I'm not going to put my name on it.

 

[Appletax]

That may work, but your remote location will only have 5GHz WiFi. Wouldn't be surprised if some of their devices only work on 2.4GHz. Then what do you do?

I'm in the same camp as @phaZed ... if it's not a wired backbone or a mesh system with a dedicated backhaul channel I'm not going to put my name on it.

Crap. They have a very expensive tablet thing for diagnosing/checking out vehicles that has Wi-Fi. May not be 5GHz capable.

Their chintzy HP Stream may not support it, either.

Ugh.

It's bizarre how much of a pain it is to add Wi-Fi to a second building that's not that far away.

Edit:

How about adding a Linksys Velop Mesh Wi-Fi 5 node? It would be a mesh network, then. It's recommended for the MU9000 router they have.

Then it should have 2.4 and 5.0. And, it will be more powerful that using a regular extender, yes?

 

[mikeroq]

It's really not a pain. I feel you are kinda making it a pain. PtP bridge or cable and install access point. Done, works great, customer happy.

 

[Appletax]

It's really not a pain. I feel you are kinda making it a pain. PtP bridge or cable and install access point. Done, works great, customer happy.

Right. I have no experience doing it, but it does not sound like rocket science. Just worried about how long it's gonna take to get everything figured out and then how to bill the customer. Can't be charging them for time spent learning how to do something. Of course, there's like one local tech company that can do it and it'd probably be way more money to have them install it.

 

[mikeroq]

What do you do for other stuff you don't know? I don't charge for me learning something. If I have to spend a lot of time researching a quote I might tack on a little extra. Labor wise I never really commit to anything. Just say it's $x per hour, might be 3-5 hours, etc. T&M.

 

[frase]

Right. I have no experience doing it, but it does not sound like rocket science. Just worried about how long it's gonna take to get everything figured out and then how to bill the customer. Can't be charging them for time spent learning how to do something. Of course, there's like one local tech company that can do it and it'd probably be way more money to have them install it.

Why don't you trial run it at your residents or a friends, honestly with new equipment that is what I do in general; and I am sure most do. That way you are not charging them for your "Learning Time". As well you will feel more confident on the site when you do the real run.

 

[timeshifter]

It's really not a pain. I feel you are kinda making it a pain. PtP bridge or cable and install access point. Done, works great, customer happy.

Agree with this. I think @Appletax you are resisting it because it’s unfamiliar to you. Once you get it done your eyes will be open and you’ll be glad you did, and it will seem simple and logical when you’re done.