Need video card recommendation

[glricht]

Need help with determining a video card to install into an existing PC.

I have a customer doing a variety of business-type applications for which I've installed a number of Dell Inspiron 3xxx-series PCs and they've worked out fine.

However, they just hired a person to work with an application called RFMS Measure which has some CAD-type capabilities. The new person, who used the program at his previous job, says Measure is running slowly.

The specific PC here is a Dell Inspiron 3668 -- s/n C1VDPJ2 -- with an Intel i5-7400, 8GB DDR4-2400, 1TB HD and an Intel HD Graphics 630 (1GB). The MB is an Intel Sunrise Point H110, Intel Kaby Lake-S. OS is Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.

I talked with the RFMS Measure support folks and they said a bump from 8GB to 16GB would help (we're going to do that), but the big thing is to go to a discrete video card with 2 to 4 GB memory. This is what I suspected the bottleneck was after some Task Manager monitoring, but I'm a little out of my comfort zone as to WHAT card I should install. It appears the MB has two PCI-E slots open: a PCI-E 3.0 x16 long and a standard PCI-E x1 short.

Dell shows a GeForce GTX 1050 TI 4GB GDDR5 card as compatible, but must admit I'm not a video hardware person and hoping somebody can give me some help.

 

[Altster]

talked with the RFMS Measure support folks

Well do they have any "specific" recommendations on brand / model of video card you should be looking at? I'd start with them first.

 

[phaZed]

Their software doesn't look very demanding.... a 10 series card will do more than fine. Make sure whatever you get has 4GB or more for assett imports.

RECOMMENDED MINIMUM FOR DESIGNER AND PREMIER EDITIONS

• RAM: 16GB
• CPU – i7 or equivalent
• Hard drive – 1TB
• External video card – 1GB or higher rating – NO MOTHERBOARD SHARED VIDEO
• Windows 7, 8, or 10, 32-bit or 64-bit
• Microsoft .NET 4.5.1
• 1280×800 or greater resolution
• Wide screen monitor
• Measure is CAD-like software that uses even higher resources when importing PDF and other graphics for over-tracing. Equip accordingly.
• Color printer (recommended)

https://support.measureflooring.com/hc/en-us/articles/115009820268-System-Requirements-for-Measure

 

[Diggs]

The Quatro series used to be (still is?) the corporate series CAD capable video card. In this case, a 1050 or 1050Ti (preferred) would work great I would think. Pushes the performance up substantially without need for any extra power supplies or extra connections and does it at an easy price point.

 

[Porthos]

Get them a SSD as well.

Remember the specs say I7 and you have an I5.

 

[glricht]

Remember the specs say I7 and you have an I5.

I asked their support that exact question and they said that if the customer was using a LOT of the program's CAD features, then the i7 would be best; but if they're not (and they're not), just improving the video card was the best route. My quote will include both options.

 

[brandonkick]

I do not think a jump from a modern i5 to a modern i7 is necessary.
I even doubt a jump to 16GB of ram is necessary.

The secret sauce is probably in the jump to a discrete card with 2-4GB memory. I'd go 1050 / 1050Ti... should be plenty.

 

[SAFCasper]

I agree 1050 is probably the sweet spot.

The thing you need to be careful of is power draw. I believe that model comes with a 240w PSU which certainly won't handle a 1060 or above. Not even certain it would handle a 1050 to be honest.

And to make things awkward it's not a standard sized PSU so you might have some difficulty upgrading it.

 

[fincoder]

The thing you need to be careful of is power draw. I believe that model comes with a 240w PSU which certainly won't handle a 1060 or above. Not even certain it would handle a 1050 to be honest.

I've installed 1050 2GB cards in SFF business desktops with 240W PSU and they work perfectly. I've tested them by maxing out the GPU with Furmark and you still can't even hear the PSU fan.

If you want to be absolutely sure of enough power, use the 1050 2GB card and it should be plenty for the software. But if you want to maximise the graphics power, refurbishers are putting 1050 Ti 4GB cards into refurbs with 240W PSU, and selling them as cheap gaming PCs with warranty so those cards shouldn't be a problem either.

 

[ohio_grad_06]

Quadro is better for professional applications. However for low power draw, the 1050/1050ti should be the best option. But they are more of a entry level gaming card, but probably your best chance to not have to replace a power supply as well.

 

[sapphirescales]

I agree 1050 is probably the sweet spot.

The thing you need to be careful of is power draw. I believe that model comes with a 240w PSU which certainly won't handle a 1060 or above. Not even certain it would handle a 1050 to be honest.

And to make things awkward it's not a standard sized PSU so you might have some difficulty upgrading it.

Quadro is better for professional applications. However for low power draw, the 1050/1050ti should be the best option. But they are more of a entry level gaming card, but probably your best chance to not have to replace a power supply as well.

I don't care what type of graphics card it is, I ALWAYS recommend upgrading the crappy OEM power supply. Even a GTX 1050 without PCI-e headers uses what, 85 watts? That's 85 watts it wasn't using before. Those OEM power supplies are so crappy, I don't even trust them to run a PC that DOESN'T have a dedicated graphics card. If the case is too small, I tell it to them straight - that they need to upgrade to a standard size mATX or full sized ATX case if they want to be able to have a decent power supply and actually cool their components properly.

If you don't quote properly and EXPLAIN why you're making these recommendations, they'll blame YOU when their crappy $14 OEM PSU blows 6 months down the road and takes the motherboard/CPU and who knows what else along with it.

I would NEVER send a computer out the door that's in a small, crappy OEM case with a POS OEM power supply in it unless it was for someone that only used their computer to watch funny cat videos or check email. ALL my business clients are on business class machines and/or custom built computers. If they don't want to do things right, then I don't want them as a client because when something goes wrong, they will ALWAYS blame YOU even if they chose to IGNORE your recommendations!

I've installed 1050 2GB cards in SFF business desktops with 240W PSU and they work perfectly.

They key takeaway here is BUSINESS desktops. Sure, the PSU's are still pretty crappy in a Dell Optiplex, but they're generally better than the PSU you'll find in an Inspiron. Still, I personally wouldn't recommend keeping the OEM power supply even in a business class desktop if you're adding ANY graphics card to the system because these systems weren't DESIGNED to have dedicated graphics cards installed in them. They install power supplies with just enough headroom not to blow up in your face assuming you DON'T have a dedicated graphics card installed. Will it work if you install a graphics card? Sure...but I wouldn't trust it to last a decent amount of time. And then when it blows up in their face, they blame YOU. Better to just do the safe thing and actually put in something decent.

 

[Diggs]

Although @sapphirescales has a point, just to ease your mind a bit. I have 5 1050Tis out in the field all running off OEM PSs (250-350 watts?) including the original one (almost 2 years ago) in low-profile Dell with it's little form factor OEM PS. I'm still waiting for the first problem/failure.

 

[glricht]

Thanks to all that contributed. Just found out that a software update is now available that addresses some performance issues. They're going to install that to see if the performance is now "acceptable" (I doubt it will, but one can always hope).

I'm submitting a quote with three options:

1. Upgrade memory from 8GB to 16GB (or more)
   (Don't think a memory upgrade only will help much, but it's a relatively cheap option and I'm adding it for completeness of the quote)
   
2. The above memory upgrade plus a 1050Ti, either 2GB or 4GB
3. Replace the PC with one having an i7, 16GB (or more), discrete video card, and maybe an SSD

From what the customer has demoed to me, I doubt option #3 is necessary, but if they really want to do it ...

 

[ohio_grad_06]

I don't care what type of graphics card it is, I ALWAYS recommend upgrading the crappy OEM power supply. Even a GTX 1050 without PCI-e headers uses what, 85 watts? That's 85 watts it wasn't using before. Those OEM power supplies are so crappy, I don't even trust them to run a PC that DOESN'T have a dedicated graphics card. If the case is too small, I tell it to them straight - that they need to upgrade to a standard size mATX or full sized ATX case if they want to be able to have a decent power supply and actually cool their components properly.

If you don't quote properly and EXPLAIN why you're making these recommendations, they'll blame YOU when their crappy $14 OEM PSU blows 6 months down the road and takes the motherboard/CPU and who knows what else along with it.

I would NEVER send a computer out the door that's in a small, crappy OEM case with a POS OEM power supply in it unless it was for someone that only used their computer to watch funny cat videos or check email. ALL my business clients are on business class machines and/or custom built computers. If they don't want to do things right, then I don't want them as a client because when something goes wrong, they will ALWAYS blame YOU even if they chose to IGNORE your recommendations!



They key takeaway here is BUSINESS desktops. Sure, the PSU's are still pretty crappy in a Dell Optiplex, but they're generally better than the PSU you'll find in an Inspiron. Still, I personally wouldn't recommend keeping the OEM power supply even in a business class desktop if you're adding ANY graphics card to the system because these systems weren't DESIGNED to have dedicated graphics cards installed in them. They install power supplies with just enough headroom not to blow up in your face assuming you DON'T have a dedicated graphics card installed. Will it work if you install a graphics card? Sure...but I wouldn't trust it to last a decent amount of time. And then when it blows up in their face, they blame YOU. Better to just do the safe thing and actually put in something decent.

I agree with you it's always a good idea to change the power supply if you can. However, depending on the client's budget/requriements, if they don't want to spend the money for that, I'm saying that's the max he could probably get away with. But agreed, yes, when you install a video card, it's always always ALWAYS a good idea to upgrade the power supply to something from EVGA, Corsair, Antec, etc. Something reputable.

As far as the client, I would bump to 16gb of ram, 1050ti. If memory serves, the 1050 is a 2gb card period. 1050ti is a 4gb card. This day and age, why bother with only a 2gb card? So probably a better idea to go for at least a 4gb model. 1050ti is an ok card. Not high end but I have one in my gaming box at home now and it does ok for gaming at 1080p on medium/high settings anyway.

At that point, maybe do an SSD and see how they feel about it. They can always add the i7 later.

 

[fencepost]

As a very low cost option, if they're amenable you might also try the .Net 4.8 Early Access preview just for giggles. I'm not sure whether CAD work is going to be the kind of workload on the processor that may be impacted by this - multithreaded sure, but how much gets shoved over to the graphics card these days vs being in the CPU?

Discussion of pause behavior in .Net on Skylake and newer Intel CPUs - also look at the comments on the original article, there are some mitigation suggestions in there for current versions of .Net. The Hacker News thread may also be interesting, but has a lot more finger pointing and people talking because they can.

 

[sapphirescales]

I agree with you it's always a good idea to change the power supply if you can. However, depending on the client's budget/requriements, if they don't want to spend the money for that...

If they're too cheap/poor to do it right, then they can go to someone else. Maybe look on Craigslist? I will NOT accept responsibility for their cheapness/stupidity.

 

[fincoder]

I personally wouldn't recommend keeping the OEM power supply even in a business class desktop if you're adding ANY graphics card to the system because these systems weren't DESIGNED to have dedicated graphics cards installed in them.

Lots of business grade desktops have a dedicated graphics card as an option, or other configs that have them, so it's quite possible that they ARE designed to cater for dedicated graphics (possibly of the more power hungry 500/600/700 series cards). Now with the much more efficient nVidia 1000 series cards there's a lot less demand on the PSU.

GTX 1050 and 1050 Ti have max TDP of 75W. The GT 1030 with 2GB DDR5 is only 30W and this could be a safer choice while still giving a decent performance boost due to the DDR5 memory.

Big brand OEM PSUs are actually reasonable quality, even in the consumer models. In Australia all PSUs in prebuilt computers must meet the equivalent of 80 Plus Bronze efficiency or higher (by regulation) so they all have a reasonable quality. I doubt they use different PSUs here from the rest of the world so it could be assumed that the big OEMs were already using efficient PSUs (possibly due to other regulations in the EU or US).

The PSUs to worry about are the cheap ones used in custom builds, often bundled with cheap tower cases. These are the ones that blow when overloaded, and are dishonestly labelled.

 

[sapphirescales]

Lots of business grade desktops have a dedicated graphics card as an option, or other configs that have them, so it's quite possible that they ARE designed to cater for dedicated graphics (possibly of the more power hungry 500/600/700 series cards). Now with the much more efficient nVidia 1000 series cards there's a lot less demand on the PSU.

GTX 1050 and 1050 Ti have max TDP of 75W. The GT 1030 with 2GB DDR5 is only 30W and this could be a safer choice while still giving a decent performance boost due to the DDR5 memory.

Big brand OEM PSUs are actually reasonable quality, even in the consumer models. In Australia all PSUs in prebuilt computers must meet the equivalent of 80 Plus Bronze efficiency or higher (by regulation) so they all have a reasonable quality. I doubt they use different PSUs here from the rest of the world so it could be assumed that the big OEMs were already using efficient PSUs (possibly due to other regulations in the EU or US).

The PSUs to worry about are the cheap ones used in custom builds, often bundled with cheap tower cases. These are the ones that blow when overloaded, and are dishonestly labelled.

Most OEM's will put in a beefier PSU if you add a dedicated graphics card as an option. I might be willing to do a 1030, but that card sucks so bad it's not much better than integrated graphics. And all OEM PSU's are 80 Plus Bronze certified in Australia? We're really getting screwed here in American then. I don't think I've EVER seen even an 80 Plus certified PSU in an OEM machine. Not even in the Alienware systems that come in (though they did before Dell bought them).

If OEM PSU's were all 80 Plus Bronze certified, I'd have no problem staying with the original PSU. Unfortunately in America they stick us with worse quality than the $14 PSU's on Amazon.

 

[fincoder]

I might be willing to do a 1030, but that card sucks so bad it's not much better than integrated graphics.

For gaming it isn't great, but for graphics work it should be significantly better than Intel CPU graphics due to the dedicated 2GB DDR5 memory. Here's a comparison between 1030 and HD 630 (Intel 7th-gen i5 CPU):
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=3757&cmp[]=3540

And all OEM PSU's are 80 Plus Bronze certified in Australia? We're really getting screwed here in American then. I don't think I've EVER seen even an 80 Plus certified PSU in an OEM machine.

I said 'the equivalent of' 80 Plus Bronze. They don't need to actually be certified by the 80 Plus corporation, just to have the same efficiency standards. I've noticed recent model HP Elite SFF desktops actually do have the 80 Plus Bronze certification logo on the PSU.

Unfortunately in America they stick us with worse quality than the $14 PSU's on Amazon.

I find it hard to believe that, AU and EU and NZ and other countries get PSUs that meet efficiency standards, but for the US market they put cheaper/nastier ones in? Wouldn't states like California have strict efficiency regulations too? I suspect that PSUs have improved a lot across the board, rather than trying to tailor product lines to different countries.

 

[sapphirescales]

I find it hard to believe that, AU and EU and NZ and other countries get PSUs that meet efficiency standards, but for the US market they put cheaper/nastier ones in? Wouldn't states like California have strict efficiency regulations too? I suspect that PSUs have improved a lot across the board, rather than trying to tailor product lines to different countries.

Margins in the tech industry are bloody freaking awful. Like 2% in most cases when it comes to big ticket items. That's why computers are more expensive in places that put those sort of regulations in place. Dell would happily reduce the quality of their computers by 90% to save $1 because here in the US, we don't have any consumer protection laws. You've got the 1 year warranty on everything and that's it. If your $7,000 refrigerator blows up in your face 366 days after you bought it, you're just f*cked. And yes, they only include a 1 year warranty with pretty much EVERYTHING no matter how expensive it is. You buy a $100,000 car and it only has a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty on it. Used to be 10 year/100,000 mile warranty back in the 90's, and it didn't cost $100,000 for the d*mned thing back then.

The only exception is business class computers. Dell Latitude/Optiplex systems are MUCH better than their Inspiron/Dimension options. And this is only because they HAVE to make them better quality. If a regular guy buys an expensive $1,000 Inspiron and it only lasts a year, he's just f*cked. But if a big company buys 1,000's of Latitudes and they all start failing around the same time with the exact same problem because they're made like CRAP, the big companies can afford to sue Dell's a$$ off. Because of this, Dell offers better quality computers to businesses.