Outdoor weatherproof access point...

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FrankiePC

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Hey guys, I'm in search for an outdoor weatherproof wifi access point that can cover about 75 yards. This is for a vineyard at a winery that just built an outdoor tasting area. There main Wifi router is a netgear nighthawk ac3200. This would be mounted up on a tressle which is the only place close enough to the main building that has electric and gets a decent wifi signal. Never had to do a weatherproof access point outside before so I am open to any recommendations. Thanks.
 
FrankiePC said:
Hey guys, I'm in search for an outdoor weatherproof wifi access point that can cover about 75 yards. This is for a vineyard at a winery that just built an outdoor tasting area. There main Wifi router is a netgear nighthawk ac3200. This would be mounted up on a tressle which is the only place close enough to the main building that has electric and gets a decent wifi signal. Never had to do a weatherproof access point outside before so I am open to any recommendations. Thanks.
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Am I right in assuming this will be setup as a wireless repeater? ie. you aren't running CAT5 to the new AP
 
My neighbors down the street have a netgear repeater that just drowns me out up here. I had to get on a different channel. LOL. But anyway. Mark has a good suggestion I think. I've used the company he suggested for years, and I've used the loco m2 and loco m5, and also the bullett, and the high gain dishes 2.49 & 5ghz, and much more. Typically you can find the equipment on ebay for $50.00. It will pick up at a great distance, and has an ethernet connector to supply a home or pro wifi router or ap to retransmit the signal. I used them everyday in long distance wifi for 12 mile links, although I NEVER went more than 12 miles. You can use different devices they make to send a signal a long way. Our network was about 150 miles or so, but with lots of backhauls, and point to point dishes and transponders. But for something as small as a winery, It should be very cheap to set up. One thing I'm thinking is if you have a external power plug, you can get these clear covers that are rainproof and have an electrician install it for you to keep the rain out. Also You can buy just a very simple weather proof repeater.
 
FrankiePC said:
Thanks Mark. Are all of these weatherproof?
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What I linked to is something new, at least to me. So I've not seen it. But they are accurate with their advertising so I'd say they are, relatively speaking. They don't have glands like more expensive models but I'd have no problem using them outside, except for coastal regions near the sea. Corrosion is horrible in those areas.
 
Markverhyden said:
What I linked to is something new, at least to me. So I've not seen it. But they are accurate with their advertising so I'd say they are, relatively speaking. They don't have glands like more expensive models but I'd have no problem using them outside, except for coastal regions near the sea. Corrosion is horrible in those areas.
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Ok. I did some reading, it looks like I will need to connect the AP hardwired with that unit. That's not an option. Unless I Uplink with UAPs, but throughput is reduced to 50% in Wireless Uplink. They want to keep there existing equipment, just extend it. I'll have to look into this further. Thanks.
 
If you want to go DIY, MG Chemicals Non Corrosive Silicone is a great all around product for weatherproofing items. I just don't know how companies will handle warranty of said device. Most devices can be opened easy enough, put silicone in all the seams of the device and any breathing holes.

Just thought I'd put that in there for those rare cases of you want it this way, this is the only way that's gonna happen.
 
FrankiePC said:
Thanks Mark. Are all of these weatherproof?
Click to expand...

Yes the Ubiquiti outdoor models are all...."outdoor models"..thus, "weatherproof". In the above link Mark put up..."The UniFi AC Mesh Pro is designed to withstand the elements, making it ideal for outdoor deployment." The PDF data sheet in the link gives further specs, including the wide temp range it's able to withstand.

However, you're going to want an ethernet run. Using a residential router at the top..and trying to mix another "wireless repeater" will yield less than desirable results.
Highly recommend treating this as a business network with proper business grade hardware. You can do this without breaking the budget, plenty of VERY affordable brands such as Ubiquiti or MickoTik.

Vineyards can have a decent crowd at some events....we have some vineyard clients. You want a design a network with a max of ~40 clients per AP. Yes many "specs" on access points will say something like 127 clients max. But in the real world, "best practice" teaches us to target a max of 40x clients per AP. So ask them "how many people can show up at your events?"

Also, remember..it's not about the range of the access points, it's about the range of the clients devices. While some access points can have a range of 400 or 500 or 600 feet...if a wireless client is a smart phone with a range of say...100 feet...maybe 150 feet max, some even less than 100 feet...it's like playing a game of football pass with a professional quarterback. Do you want to stand far away at HIS max throwing distance? Or yours? If you want that game of pass the football to last more than 1x throw....

So look at the area the owners wish to blanket with WiFi....and factor in density of people, and spacial distances for the range of the APs. As well as physical barriers...like many vineyards have a big old rustic barn or some outdoor pavilion structure with a roof over it.

With a Ubiquiti USG (router), 16 port POE switch (or maybe even just the 8 port model..depending on how large their office is, a Cloud Key...an indoor Unifi AP AC or two, and a MESH Pro outdoor model, and an outdoor MESH Standard model or two...you can build a darned great performing network for not a heck of a lot of budget. Have a captive portal setup to have the clients "Like" their FB page and other social media when they hop on..and it gets them excited.

Would you rather see the client spend 500 bucks for a duct-tape and paperclip mix match of residential gear on the cheap that doesn't work well and they heard complaints at every function? Or spend 2 grand on a top notch system with room to grow, and that works very well at each function and helps grow their social media too!. It's a winery..they have the money, they're upper crust people and that's the type of clientele they cater too. Just look at the cars in the driveway.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Yes the Ubiquiti outdoor models are all...."outdoor models"..thus, "weatherproof". In the above link Mark put up..."The UniFi AC Mesh Pro is designed to withstand the elements, making it ideal for outdoor deployment." The PDF data sheet in the link gives further specs, including the wide temp range it's able to withstand.

However, you're going to want an ethernet run. Using a residential router at the top..and trying to mix another "wireless repeater" will yield less than desirable results.
Highly recommend treating this as a business network with proper business grade hardware. You can do this without breaking the budget, plenty of VERY affordable brands such as Ubiquiti or MickoTik.

Vineyards can have a decent crowd at some events....we have some vineyard clients. You want a design a network with a max of ~40 clients per AP. Yes many "specs" on access points will say something like 127 clients max. But in the real world, "best practice" teaches us to target a max of 40x clients per AP. So ask them "how many people can show up at your events?"

Also, remember..it's not about the range of the access points, it's about the range of the clients devices. While some access points can have a range of 400 or 500 or 600 feet...if a wireless client is a smart phone with a range of say...100 feet...maybe 150 feet max, some even less than 100 feet...it's like playing a game of football pass with a professional quarterback. Do you want to stand far away at HIS max throwing distance? Or yours? If you want that game of pass the football to last more than 1x throw....

So look at the area the owners wish to blanket with WiFi....and factor in density of people, and spacial distances for the range of the APs. As well as physical barriers...like many vineyards have a big old rustic barn or some outdoor pavilion structure with a roof over it.

With a Ubiquiti USG (router), 16 port POE switch (or maybe even just the 8 port model..depending on how large their office is, a Cloud Key...an indoor Unifi AP AC or two, and a MESH Pro outdoor model, and an outdoor MESH Standard model or two...you can build a darned great performing network for not a heck of a lot of budget. Have a captive portal setup to have the clients "Like" their FB page and other social media when they hop on..and it gets them excited.

Would you rather see the client spend 500 bucks for a duct-tape and paperclip mix match of residential gear on the cheap that doesn't work well and they heard complaints at every function? Or spend 2 grand on a top notch system with room to grow, and that works very well at each function and helps grow their social media too!. It's a winery..they have the money, they're upper crust people and that's the type of clientele they cater too. Just look at the cars in the driveway.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stonecat for the thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, cat 5 isn't an option, nor is changing any equipment. I already explained this to them. They are very tight with their money and they just installed the nighthawk and other equipment themselves. They have someone on their staff that "thinks he knows what he is doing, claiming he is a former IT guy". We are basically walking into this arrangement and was told, we want the Wifi extended but do not want to replace any equipment. This is why I'm asking for opinions. I'm looking for the right AP to make this work, to keep them happy. They always call when its something they can't figure out. Nice people but you wouldn't be able to drive a needle with a jackhammer into their sphincter. lol
 
Whelp...I suppose the only advice I'd pitch is to get the same brand of "wireless repeater" that their main router is..so...some Netgear extender.
But here's the thing, as you may or may not know...when you do a wireless repeat mode, each hop cuts the bandwidth in 1/2. So at best...a single wireless client hanging off of a wireless repeater repeating from a main access point will have half the bandwidth they would have had from a wired AP. And each additional wireless client cuts that remaining bandwidth in 1/2 yet again.

So how much of a "crowd" do they expect? Thus..how many possible wireless clients? Probably...at least...25? Maybe 50? Yikes...

Yeah...I know those types of clients..they insist on you making some cobbled up pile of crap they have work. You'll spend hours doing it...and at best,at the end of the day, you have something you know will just crumble and fall apart. I've learned to just walk away from those. I don't want my name associated with something like that.
 
I just wanted to hop in here - if you dont mind and ask:

Can you point out some good material online that gives examples of wireless setups and such. I pretty much use ubiquity products now and just want to study the different options with their equipment. I have visted there site quite often but there seems to not be a lot of good examples of wireless setups and such. Id like to learn a lot more about the options and solutions for wireless.
 
FrankiePC said:
Thanks Stonecat for the thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, cat 5 isn't an option, nor is changing any equipment. I already explained this to them. They are very tight with their money and they just installed the nighthawk and other equipment themselves. They have someone on their staff that "thinks he knows what he is doing, claiming he is a former IT guy". We are basically walking into this arrangement and was told, we want the Wifi extended but do not want to replace any equipment. This is why I'm asking for opinions. I'm looking for the right AP to make this work, to keep them happy. They always call when its something they can't figure out. Nice people but you wouldn't be able to drive a needle with a jackhammer into their sphincter. lol
Click to expand...

LOL!!! Really like that analogy. At any rate make your concerns known, preferably in writing. Maybe send them an email with that plus the options. Netgear makes extenders but none are outdoor models as best I can tell. And you usually cannot mix OEM's in that environment. And the extenders are not cheap.

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-range-extenders/
 
Yeah you need to run a wire to do this correctly.

Three only other option is use a powerline adapter on the outdoor plug into a waterproof box, then put a poe switch and an outdoor access point
 
I'm going to be a bit of a contrary voice by saying that if you're getting a dual-band device, have adequate 5GHz reception and can make the base connection over 5GHz then you should be just fine with the speed loss. First, some user devices will only connect on 2.4 anyway, which is going to be slower. Second, if you have a solid 5GHz signal, "half" may still mean "2-4x the speed of the Internet connection."

Finally, it sounds like they want it Fast (quickly), Cheap and Good (speedy). They might get 2 of those, but they're not going to get all 3.

And I'm going to advise against the Mikrotiks just because of the UI and learning curve. If he was already using them, then yeah they have some impressive stuff at amazing prices, but it's the kind of thing you should spend some time experimenting with in your own environment first and I'm not sure how it'd integrate with the Nighthawk.
 
What I hate about this kind of stuff, if often a client like this will be making money hand over fist, but not want to give us any. I've known clients who made hundreds of thousands and even millions a year in clear after tax profits, that begrudged every dime they had to pay to me. They do not appreciate I.T. or my knowledge. I won't deal with arrogant people. I won't deal with people who act like they are better than me, and don't want to pay for services rendered. Ok, This is what I proposed, you refused it. Have a great day.
 
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