Prayers for Las Vegas

I don't get the American Psyche when it comes to gun ownership. I understand the constitution and the right to bear arms but surely a handgun is enough. Why does anyone need to own 42 guns with a number of them being rapid-fire assault rifle types?

In both the UK and Australia there was 1 massacre before the gun laws were tightened significantly and neither country has had a similar event since. Sure have a right to bear arms, a handgun to protect yourself but all these high powered rifles and submachine guns need banning in my opinion.
 
So, just to clarify...are you guys saying that only "mentally ill people" are responsible for gun deaths?

Yes. Folks without some major issues do not commit these types of crimes. While I totally understand as wrong as it is that sometimes folks are badly wronged and may take that aggression out on that or those individual(s), but this makes no sense whatsoever because these were random people who had absolutely never done anything to the shooter.
 
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I don't get the American Psyche when it comes to gun ownership. I understand the constitution and the right to bear arms but surely a handgun is enough. Why does anyone need to own 42 guns with a number of them being rapid-fire assault rifle types?

In both the UK and Australia there was 1 massacre before the gun laws were tightened significantly and neither country has had a similar event since. Sure have a right to bear arms, a handgun to protect yourself but all these high powered rifles and submachine guns need banning in my opinion.

No, you really don't understand the Amercian Psyche. We want everything our Government has up to and including tanks. A handgun is NOT enough except for concealed carry or having with you in a car for immediate defense. A rifle is needed for hunting, and a Shotgun is the ultimate choice for home protection.

There are a number of lawful reasons to own guns:
  1. Protection of one's self and family
  2. Sport: Competitive Shooting, Hunting, and similar.
  3. Collector - this is why someone buys 42 guns.

Newly manufactured, fully-automatic firearms are not for sale to the general public. Only old ones can be transferred, but it is a very complicated process involving tax stamps and the National Firearms Act. Usually fully-automatic weapons runs $10,000+

In contrast, semi-automatic firearms are relatively easy to obtain. You go to a gun-store, pass a background check, and buy one.


More likely than not this may have been a slide-fire stock.
 
In both the UK and Australia there was 1 massacre before the gun laws were tightened significantly and neither country has had a similar event since.
That may be true (I don't know but I'll take your word on it for the moment). But if you check UK's and Australia's violent crime statistics, you'll see they've risen sharply both places since that significant tightening of gun laws. No need to take my word for it; go look up the numbers yourself. That's the way it works every single time, even in the places in the US that have strict gun control: When gun ownership is restricted, violent crime rises, usually quite sharply. The places with the tightest gun control laws also have the highest crime rates, including violent crime; sociologically similar places with less gun control are much safer. Again, don't take my word for it, go look up the numbers yourself. This effect is so obvious and so consistent, it makes one wonder if those pushing hard for gun control really have some other motive than reducing crime (since gun control actually increases crime).
 
No, you really don't understand the Amercian Psyche. We want everything our Government has up to and including tanks. A handgun is NOT enough except for concealed carry or having with you in a car for immediate defense. A rifle is needed for hunting, and a Shotgun is the ultimate choice for home protection.

There are a number of lawful reasons to own guns:
  1. Protection of one's self and family
  2. Sport: Competitive Shooting, Hunting, and similar.
  3. Collector - this is why someone buys 42 guns.........
We may not understand the "American Psyche" but I certainly understand the need for the general populace NOT to own firearms.
Australia seems to fair quite well without it's citizens having the need to own, carry or use firearms.
As for point 1 in your comment, this is what the Police are for.
My .02
 
We may not understand the "American Psyche" but I certainly understand the need for the general populace NOT to own firearms.
Australia seems to fair quite well without it's citizens having the need to own, carry or use firearms.
As for point 1 in your comment, this is what the Police are for.
My .02


I hear you, but our police are generally corrupt unlike yours to be honest, and if they did a gun buy back, criminals wouldn't turn in their guns, so it would never work.

The best thing to do would be to quit selling certain items like slide fire stocks and then major issues like these would sunset.

Keep in mind many US citizens own more firepower than most UK or Austraillian Police! In the USA in contrast, our cops have armored personnel carriers and tanks!
 
The best thing to do would be to quit selling certain items like slide fire stocks and then major issues like these would sunset.
Are you sure they will just go away because they are not allowed to be sold?



I think making guns illegal is every bit as effective as making drugs illegal. Because we all know how well that works.
 
I think making guns illegal is every bit as effective as making drugs illegal. Because we all know how well that works.
It depends how effective the laws are in practice and how well they're enforced.

If the laws (and associated penalties) didn't work, in places like Oz and the UK, there'd be just as many guns per capita as there are in the US.

It is of course more about changing public attitude towards guns than legislation; law is just a small part of that. In countries with a low gun-per-capita, the popular public opinion is that guns are a bad thing. In many parts of the US it seems they are actively encouraged, viewed by many as a status symbol or something cool to own.

Keep in mind many US citizens own more firepower than most UK or Austraillian Police! In the USA in contrast, our cops have armored personnel carriers and tanks!
And that's the problem. If everyone has guns, everyone needs armoured vehicles and bullet-proof vests. Soon everyone has armour-piercing guns. You can't just keep upping the ante.
 
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That may be true (I don't know but I'll take your word on it for the moment). But if you check UK's and Australia's violent crime statistics, you'll see they've risen sharply both places since that significant tightening of gun laws. No need to take my word for it; go look up the numbers yourself. That's the way it works every single time, even in the places in the US that have strict gun control: When gun ownership is restricted, violent crime rises, usually quite sharply. The places with the tightest gun control laws also have the highest crime rates, including violent crime; sociologically similar places with less gun control are much safer. Again, don't take my word for it, go look up the numbers yourself. This effect is so obvious and so consistent, it makes one wonder if those pushing hard for gun control really have some other motive than reducing crime (since gun control actually increases crime).

Source? Because I don't know of ANY information to back this up. Sounds like typical NRA "facts" - basically lies to push their agenda.
 
As for point 1 in your comment, this is what the Police are for.
My .02

The problem is...things like *home invasions *assault/robbery *rape
Those all happen in a split second, without time to call the police. Even "if" there was time to call the police, the time to respond, and arrive on scene...is typically waaaaaaaay too late.

Sidenote...I was in law enforcement before switching fields into computers..so yes I will be biased.

I grew up around guns. I grew up in a time when, the father in many house holds had at least one gun. My dad had a few, he participated in target competitions, had many trophies. Taught me safety and handling of a firearm when I was a little kid. My neighbor was an avid hunter and target shooter. He easily had over 30 guns in his "man cave". Many guys "collected" guns. Nothing "odd" was thought about it. It was a hobby. Some people collected baseball cards, some people collected stamps, some people collected antique things, some people with more money collected bikes, motorcycles, cars...and guns.

It's easy for many of you who are in other countries where owning firearms isn't as widespread as it is here in the US, and speak negatively about us Americans. Throw around blanket stereotypes that Americans are a bunch of rootin' tootin' Yosemite Sams in the wild old west. Make fun of Americans who live down south with a "drawl" in their speech...."Murica...yeah". Like you've read the term "redneck" and now that's a stereotype of the entire country here.

Lots of facts skews things. You see all these "facts" fly around. A large percentage of Americans own guns, yes. But you see these "facts"..these high numbers, well..it's skewed a bit. Many of them count suicides. Someone wants to off themselves...they'll find a way. Happen to own a gun, so there it is..quick and easy. If they didn't have a gun, they'd find another way. Just as unpleasant cleaning up a mess after a forearm slashing as it is a small caliber bullet to the head.

We also have inner city gang problems. EVERY SINGLE MORNING on the news we hear them talk about 2 - 4 murders in our capitol city here in Connecticut USA. Or 2 of the other old "has been" dilapidated cities. Usually out on the streets. Gangs taking each other out. They get those guns illegally..they're under aged kids. We also have a couple of really old cities with large "projects"...such as old areas of Detroit..that throw huge numbers of gang related deaths into our national average. It's like a battlezone up there.

Totally different angle to look at things, we have to deal with a whole new way that people deal with things. We have kids now who are sooo socially challenged...they "lash out"..and when they do, it's not good. I don't know what it is...I see many people blame it on video games, I don't. But I think the whole "social media" thing has changed the way todays youth handles stress. Years ago, boys would get ****** at each other of something..we'd have a fist fight outside the school, settle it, and later that day we'd be playing together. These days, kids can't deal with each other face to face, so they go keyboard commando over social media until one of them snaps! Granted...the Las Vegas guy wasn't a product of the millenium...he was 64..so somethings different here. But I blame many of the other tragedies on how poorly todays youth deal with stress. Sandy Hook for example..that kid was..a kid, and very..very socially challenged.

We will see changes in the gun laws in our country from this incident. Before earlier this week, 99% of people didn't know what a "bump stock" was. Now that this guy used bump stocks on several semi-auto rifles to rain bullets almost like a full automatic weapon...I'll be a pint of Guinness that we'll see cheap mods such as a bump stock become illegal. That mod that quietly grew in recent popularity slipped past the radar of gun legislation. Because of a technicality...the laws were written around modifying the trigger mechanism to be able to rapid fire more than 1 round per pull of the trigger. A "bump stock" technically still keeps it 1x round per 1x pull of the trigger..technically it's still a semi automatic. But..we still from the receiving end of things..it's much akin to a full automatic.

We have already seen gun legislation change things in recent years. For example..in my state, you cannot have higher than a 10 round capacity magazine. I live in a state that has stricter than average gun laws. I don't mind that. I actually support it. To me, a gun is a privilege, not a right. I believe strongly that more thorough background checks should be done, and that we need to open up medical records to allow background checks for guns to parse any info that is related to mental/psychological issues. And I believe that should open up to include the entire household. A prime example...I'll point to the Sandy Hook school shooting just several years ago. That kid had a lifelong problem of mental issues, and going to a psychologist. His mom was an avid shooter..she had quite a collection of guns. She (amongst others)...paid the ultimate price for her poor decision.

I can peel back through countless mass shootings in our country..and illustrate that the shooter should not have been able to obtain guns, due to circumstances such as they had mental issues and had been seeing a psych, or, they had prior "marks" on their records due to other things. And the background checks either just didn't happen, things fell through the cracks, or..background checks aren't allowed to reach into medical records such as mental issues. IMO that needs to change.
 
And..bad guys will find other ways to kill masses of people. Let's not focus on the laws or culture of other countries and ridicule them. But...look at tragedies that have happened when a "bad guy" wants to kill lots of people. Driving trucks through crowds of people. One of those recent events killed 84 people! What laws can come about to change that? How are you supposed to draft laws, or what can you do, to prevent some nutjob from getting in a vehicle and plowing through a big crowd? HOW?!?!?!

How about bombs at concerts? How about bombs in general, in malls, subways, other crowded areas.

These times are trying. People have changed. Years ago, when I was growing up, heck it was common to see us kids carry a rifle down the road, coming out of the woods with a rifle. Nothing was thought about it..."Oh, just kids out target practicing or small game hunting and having fun!". Heck..when I was in high school, if you were on the shooting team, you could bring your rifle to school, keep it in your locker.

Guns were still guns back then. It's the attitude of some "bad guys" that has changed.
 
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Don't be surprised at all.
There have been thousands of ISIS supporters inside Europe & the U.S.A.
Open-Border Policy Side-Effects...;)

Vegas is NOT a terrorist attack. Most of the mass killings have NOTHING to do with politics. Terrorism is using brutal force to try and make a government change it's policies and actions. These killings are Columbine-style, done for the pure sport of killing other humans. Rage killings.
 
How about bombs at concerts? How about bombs in general, in malls, subways, other crowded areas.
As a rule, we don't have random, unpolitical, mass bombings. We have bombings all the time. Usually from domestic disputes. The few public bombings that have occurred have mostly been true terrorism. Acts that were done with a political goal in mind.
 
As a rule, we don't have random, unpolitical, mass bombings. We have bombings all the time. Usually from domestic disputes. The few public bombings that have occurred have mostly been true terrorism. Acts that were done with a political goal in mind.

However, I was talking on a global scale. Although I don't see American having "bombings all the time"....not to mention, bombings in any domestic I've seen.
 
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