Rear USB after unplugged

[jbartlett323]

Ok, so this is kinda an odd one...

Asus CG5275 desktop w/ Win10

I have ran complete Diags, including HDD (twice), extended RAM tests, and swapping PSU.

Basically, the Rear USB ports stop working if I pull the power and allow the machine to fully discharge. The user had brought it in for a Tune-up, and this issue didn't present itself until after the Tune-up was complete, but could potentially have been happening for a long time.
If I have a mouse plugged into the Front USB port upon boot, it will function (not if i plug in after boot), but anything in the rear will not. I can use this mouse and do a restart, and everything works properly again, and will continue to work until I pull the power again. This is repeatable to the fullest, and is obviously a usable work around. The user would prefer a fix, of course.
The USB seem to work fine in anything outside of windows, most of the time. I have booted parted magic once and had no M&K. Because it works most of the time, and the behavior is fully repeatable in windows, I'm not convinced its a hardware issue. But the symptoms sure look like hardware....

Things I have tried:
Chipset driver,and a couple others.
Remove/reload USB devices from Device Manager
Updates
BIOS update - Did not complete because it listed as a different board, but only one I can find on Asus website even close, and not found through Asus website, used Google to get there... Maybe someone can find a better link?
swapping PSU
Googleing
staring at it hoping it will fix itself....

Any insights? What did I miss? Anybody run into anything similar? Do you think staring at it longer will help?

 

[coffee]

If you boot a linux live dvd (prefer Linux Mint w/mate desktop) does everything work fine? If it does and considering the amount of time you have into it now then I would backup and N/P.

 

[nlinecomputers]

If you boot a linux live dvd (prefer Linux Mint w/mate desktop) does everything work fine? If it does and considering the amount of time you have into it now then I would backup and N/P.

Sound like a bad mobo but testing with Linux will be the proof.

 

[jbartlett323]

Yup, bad mobo was my thought as well, hence I mention using Parted Magic, and it works all but one time. One time is a fluke, twice is a problem. Couldn't make it happen twice, no matter how I tried...

Oh and N&P is not really an option. Yeah I got a bit of time into it, but nothing horribly excessive yet. If I can't find a fix, the user can use the work around, and as long as it doesn't get unplugged, everything works fine. Just would rather find a fix, ya know?

 

[Moltuae]

Basically, the Rear USB ports stop working if I pull the power and allow the machine to fully discharge.

Are you saying the USBs stop working but start working again only after pulling the power?

If so, I suspect you have an intermittent electrical short (or a fault in the motherboard's USB circuitry, but an electrical short is probably more likely). The USB over-current protection on a lot of motherboards remains in the protected state after it is triggered, requiring a power cycle to reset it. I would closely inspect inside and around all of the USB sockets and connections. In particular check the contacts inside the socket aren't broken, touching each other or ground.

Failing that, if the mobo works in every other way, perhaps install a USB card or two.

 

[frase]

try a hub - if fails yes mobo

 

[jbartlett323]

Are you saying the USBs stop working but start working again only after pulling the power?

If so, I suspect you have an intermittent electrical short (or a fault in the motherboard's USB circuitry, but an electrical short is probably more likely). The USB over-current protection on a lot of motherboards remains in the protected state after it is triggered, requiring a power cycle to reset it. I would closely inspect inside and around all of the USB sockets and connections. In particular check the contacts inside the socket aren't broken, touching each other or ground.

Failing that, if the mobo works in every other way, perhaps install a USB card or two.

Exactly the opposite, they work great until I pull the power. Once the machine loses power, they stop working. I can use a front USB port (which devices will only work if plugged in during initial boot up) to reboot the machine, then they work perfectly again. If it was the other way, yeah totally a board issue... this way, not so sure...

Just double-checked all USB ports, they are all physically fine by eye.

try a hub - if fails yes mobo

Oh it will fail. Everything fails at first, flash drives, peripherals, KVM, everything. Its like the USB aren't there, but device manger says they are. I can also guarantee if I reboot everything works, aka hubs, flash drives, peripherals, everything....


Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. This one is just totally weird and bass-akwards, which is why I'm asking. Keep the suggestions coming, I don't think I have long before they come pick it up and deal with the work-around.

 

[B Trevathan]

Change the USB power management settings:
1. Check or uncheck - "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
2. Shut down the computer and wait for a minute or two before restarting.
3. Inspect the power settings for any change and now set them to the way you want them to be.
Do this on all USB root hubs and ports that you want to be permanently power on.

 

[jbartlett323]

Change the USB power management settings:
1. Check or uncheck - "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
2. Shut down the computer and wait for a minute or two before restarting.
3. Inspect the power settings for any change and now set them to the way you want them to be.
Do this on all USB root hubs and ports that you want to be permanently power on.

While definitely something I didn't try, I don't think it would do any good. See, the OS is not turning anything off. Quite the opposite, its not turning them on upon boot up from complete power loss. Once the work around is applied, I can shutdown, sleep, restart, or whatever to my hearts content and never have a problem one...

Anyway, its slightly moot now, the user came and picked up the machine. They applied the work-around to great success, and are happy enough with my efforts. That being said, if anybody has anything else, post it up! If its something to try, I can always call em to bring it back!

Thanks again everybody!

 

[glennd]

linux: ignored
card: ignored
hub: "Oh it will fail"
USB power management settings: "I don't think it would do any good. "

 

[jbartlett323]

linux: ignored
card: ignored
hub: "Oh it will fail"
USB power management settings: "I don't think it would do any good. "

Linux - tried. Only Parted Magic, but its still Linux and still gave the answer we were looking for...
Card - pointless, but would have worked, yes, if I wanted to go that route - I didn't because it was suggested for a problem opposite mine...
Hub - No USB works in this condition, none. Why waste time with something that is guaranteed to produce the exact same results?
USB Power Settings - Don't have the machine or would have tested, although I truly believe it would have done nothing as the way the software works was not being utilized. Could be wrong, and would have tried if I had the ability. As it stands, no reason to call it back for a fix I'm reasonably confident wouldn't fix it.

All outlined above, so why the odd look? Did I not explain the issue well enough for others to follow my line of reasoning/troubleshooting? That's what usually happens, and is why I really only bother to ask questions when the issue is so far out in left field that odds of finding an answer are slim anyway (which in itself is part of my issue too, I know)... I try to express my thanks gratuitously, because I really do appreciate all the input!

 

[B Trevathan]

no reason to call it back for a fix I'm reasonably confident wouldn't fix it.

All outlined above, so why the odd look? Did I not explain the issue well enough for others to follow my line of reasoning/troubleshooting? That's what usually happens, and is why I really only bother to ask questions when the issue is so far out in left field that odds of finding an answer are slim anyway (which in itself is part of my issue too, I know)...

I would not expect you to call it back just to try a fix you were not sure of. Over time I have discovered that sometimes when someone comes across a "issue is so far out in left field that odds of finding an answer are slim" the fix turns out to be one simple incorrect setting that they thought was set correctly.

I think we understood you well enough to follow your reasoning/troubleshooting of your issue but let me make sure that I, myself have your symptoms correct:
If power is removed from the computer, then upon restarting the computer the rear USB ports do not work.
If you have a mouse plugged into a front USB port during the reboot of the computer then that mouse will work.
Device Manager sees all the devices that are plugged into the USB ports, but those devices do not work.
All the USB ports work fine when the computer is not running Windows but booted from Parted Magic.
If you have a mouse plugged into the front USB port and do a restart then all the USB ports work after the restart.

What I was thinking is that someone (Not saying you) or something has changed the USB power management settings or damaged the USB power management values in the registry. Because if I am reading your postings correctly the hardware testing of the ports shows that the ports do work, and testing of the software side of the ports shows that Windows does in fact see the devices plugged into the ports and has the drivers installed but does not make the devices available and only if a HID (Human Interface Device) like a mouse or keyboard is plugged into the separate front ports when Windows loads only then will Windows supply power to that HID.

All this screams a Windows power setting to me, but maybe that is just me I have been wrong before. After getting the symptoms you posted one of the things I would have done is disabled USB selective suspend and all other USB power management. I would be very surprised if the places you goggled to fix this problem did not suggest disabling USB power management. The reason I was wanting you to change the power settings and restart and not just check the setting, was to see if anything on the computer was changing the power management settings when Window loads and also to confirm that the registry keys and values were not damaged or set to read only access.

 

[jbartlett323]

I would not expect you to call it back just to try a fix you were not sure of. Over time I have discovered that sometimes when someone comes across a "issue is so far out in left field that odds of finding an answer are slim" the fix turns out to be one simple incorrect setting that they thought was set correctly.

I think we understood you well enough to follow your reasoning/troubleshooting of your issue but let me make sure that I, myself have your symptoms correct:
If power is removed from the computer, then upon restarting the computer the rear USB ports do not work.
If you have a mouse plugged into a front USB port during the reboot of the computer then that mouse will work.
Device Manager sees all the devices that are plugged into the USB ports, but those devices do not work.
All the USB ports work fine when the computer is not running Windows but booted from Parted Magic.
If you have a mouse plugged into the front USB port and do a restart then all the USB ports work after the restart.

What I was thinking is that someone (Not saying you) or something has changed the USB power management settings or damaged the USB power management values in the registry. Because if I am reading your postings correctly the hardware testing of the ports shows that the ports do work, and testing of the software side of the ports shows that Windows does in fact see the devices plugged into the ports and has the drivers installed but does not make the devices available and only if a HID (Human Interface Device) like a mouse or keyboard is plugged into the separate front ports when Windows loads only then will Windows supply power to that HID.

All this screams a Windows power setting to me, but maybe that is just me I have been wrong before. After getting the symptoms you posted one of the things I would have done is disabled USB selective suspend and all other USB power management. I would be very surprised if the places you goggled to fix this problem did not suggest disabling USB power management. The reason I was wanting you to change the power settings and restart and not just check the setting, was to see if anything on the computer was changing the power management settings when Window loads and also to confirm that the registry keys and values were not damaged or set to read only access.

Yup, great explanation. That almost makes me want to call it back to try. Yes, I have often found the weirdest problems to be a simple setting as well. And like I said, I would have tried it if I had the machine still. I'm definitely going to put it in the notes to try when the machine is next in!
I do want to clarify, Device Manager sees the Root Hubs, it does not see attached devices (unless connected to front). After reboot, all works/is seen as intended.
The reason it doesn't scream power management to me is because it only does it when power is removed. It doesn't happen after a reboot (kernel reload) or a shutdown (kernel park), or if I pull the power just long enough to shut it off (has to be discharged). I can also shutdown before power removal or just crash the machine, and either way get the same result. If I shutdown first, Windows should not know/care that power was ever removed. If I crash it, Windows knows, but should load kernel fresh and operate the same as a restart.
Says bad board because of the discharge part. But then works fine in Linux, which points me back to software...