Server Proposal with Datto

[donte10]

I'm putting together a proposal for a new client for a new server upgrade. In the proposal I'd the Datto backup service, but am curious how others do this. I'm also offering a MSP support option.

I normally have separate line items for the Server and then for the Datto backup service; in this case $6500 for the server and $199 for the Datto Alto. However, at times I feel that the client believes it is optional. I want to make the impression that the backup is not optional but mandatory/or part of the upgrade. Everyone needs a good backup solution in place. How do others propose Datto?

I am also offering a MSP plan, do you have MSP and Datto as two separate line items? Or would you somehow bundle it into your MSP price for these types of customers. How do you propose MSP and Datto plans for customers? FYI: 7 workstations with one server.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

We keep it separate.
As we have different backup plans, and of course even if the client is on a Datto appliance...there are many different Datto appliances and backup plans within Datto. And that could change as the client grows.

We don't charge for the Alto's..they're free when you sign up for a year anyways. But we charge standard markup for the Siris appliance.
And then the monthly...go for double your cost. If you have a ton of other MSP services with the client, and it's a large client...and especially if it's a large Datto monthly like a Siris 3000 or Siris 5000...I'll tend to shave some off so it's not double. Once you get to those sizes, doubling can be difficult (especially from the S5000 on up). So you can shave a few hundge off...say add 400 bucks for the monthly cost, hey..an easy 100 bucks a week in your pocket for spending a few seconds each morning looking at the backup reports.

 

[CTL]

You are correct, it should not be optional!

For ALTO I always bundle now, because it is not optional for my clients. They must atleast have ALTO. If they have a different device I separate into a line item. If you're getting an MSP contract out the deal then I wouldn't charge for the ALTO device.

So for billing bundled MSP w\ Alto, I put something like: "Plan Name" w/ 1TB Backup Q1 - $XXXXX.XX

Note: Your Rep can give you a nice backup agreement template, which basically states in so many words that your not responsible for data. I always get that signed along with my msp contract.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Just don't forget, if you're new to virtualization for backup methods, OEM server licenses do not fly! You can use the Datto box to mount and restore files easily. But if you need to virtualize in case the physical server catches fire.....nope! That OEM activation thing will get in the way. Same goes true for ANY brand full disk image when you go to spin it up, or restore to new bare metal replacement server, or restore to a virtualized new server.

Primary reason to do volume licensing when you sell clients servers. Pay you a little bit more now...or pay you tons and tons more later during a crisis!

 

[marley1]

Yeolde,

I never have that issue.

 

[Matthew Bradley]

You'll get an activation error with OEM when you go to spin it up but I believe it gives you the "evaluation" window (30 days?). If you're running it over a month then you have more problems than licensing.

You guys that are pitching Alto's for BDR - do you communicate with your clients how a cloud spun VM will perform in a disaster scenario vs something like a Siris? Roles like Exchange, SQL or a host of LoB apps over the internet isn't going to respond well to this unless you're having them RDP into the server itself. Not bashing the Alto unit at all - we have a few in the field too but I can't tell you how many times I see these deployed where they shouldn't be. I talk to MSP techs often who give me the deer in headlights look when I mention this.

 

[marley1]

I activate the OEM Dell key on a VM all the time.....

I don't sell datto any more. I seem StorageCraft, Altaro and soon exclusively Veeam. I can make more money

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yeolde,

I never have that issue.

We don't either because we avoid selling servers with OEM licensing.

And I know you can "trick it" easier these days, since 08 and newer it's not as difficult as back in the '03 days. And yes you can work with Microsoft support to extend grace periods..

But it still goes back to the fundamentals of OEM licensing, and if you're going to be the pizza tech that breaks the rules (or ignores them)..or not. OEM licensing lives and dies with the hardware it was purchased with. No selection of backup product..StorageCraft, Datto, Altaro, Veeam, Acronis, Paragon, EaseUS...whatever...gets around that. Else Microsoft would go after them.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You guys that are pitching Alto's for BDR - do you communicate with your clients how a cloud spun VM will perform in a disaster scenario vs something like a Siris? Roles like Exchange, SQL or a host of LoB apps over the internet isn't going to respond well to this unless you're having them RDP into the server itself. Not bashing the Alto unit at all - we have a few in the field too but I can't tell you how many times I see these deployed where they shouldn't be. I talk to MSP techs often who give me the deer in headlights look when I mention this.

You have to apply common sense The target client for the Alto is the small business that doesn't always need 100% of a large staff participation in the case of disaster. .Instead of waiting for over a week to put humpty dumpty back together, you can have them back up and running "fairly quickly"...even give key staff access to a spun up server through the VPN connection. Many..if not most..small businesses, are more than happy with this, and it fits their budget.

It's all in the price point...not every client can afford a Siris or that monthly nut. I wish they could....I wish every Datto client of ours was paying for at least a Siris S3000 (we have several of those, and a couple of S5000's out there...and nearly 40 Datto clients overall). But for the price point........an Alto blows away any other backup product ..feature for feature...in that price point. Period. Bar none.

Exchange actually runs fine through a thin connection BTW...look at Office 365 or any hosted Exchange. And I have lots of clients with offices spread out on WANs via VPN, file/folder shares, even light apps, and Exchange..can run just fine through VPN tunnels.

For disaster recovery for an MSP client (the purpose of this thread), But the key feature is quick data restore. Either pure files/directories, or...restore a server to a new host. Just last week I had an MSP client (they're on an Alto), 4 servers, they are going to be migrated to O365 soon. I had built a new Hyper-V host for their new DC, file server, app server..I didn't bother with their Exchange server since we're going to O365. But that Proliant Dl380 developed an issue with its redundant power supply backplane...and started rebooting randomly..sometimes as often as once an hour. I sat down from home, after dinner, remoted in, shut down the infostore on the Exchange server....so I could get a full backup in and not "miss" e-mail (their e-mail just queued up in our spam filter appliance at our office). I got a backup to complete on the Alto....and I then mounted that backup as a VHD, and copied it to their Hyper-V host. Within another hour I had the Hyper-V host full tuned/tweaked, appropriate cleanup steps done, and in product. Old server shut down and carried away a few days later.

THAT right there lines up the primary purpose of having a good product like this at as many MSP clients of yours as you can. Makes things easy for us, if something bad happens. And keeping things easy for me, is key.

 

[CTL]

You'll get an activation error with OEM when you go to spin it up but I believe it gives you the "evaluation" window (30 days?). If you're running it over a month then you have more problems than licensing.

You guys that are pitching Alto's for BDR - do you communicate with your clients how a cloud spun VM will perform in a disaster scenario vs something like a Siris? Roles like Exchange, SQL or a host of LoB apps over the internet isn't going to respond well to this unless you're having them RDP into the server itself. Not bashing the Alto unit at all - we have a few in the field too but I can't tell you how many times I see these deployed where they shouldn't be. I talk to MSP techs often who give me the deer in headlights look when I mention this.

Shockingly ALTO performed extremely well for my client running Server 2012, SQL with a LoB app. I mean there was no lag, they didn't know the difference. 10 users.

But yes, you definitely should manage expectations with them.

 

[Matthew Bradley]

Shockingly ALTO performed extremely well for my client running Server 2012, SQL with a LoB app. I mean there was no lag, they didn't know the difference. 10 users.

But yes, you definitely should manage expectations with them.

Hmm, that is interesting. What was their internet speed?

As an example, we recently signed up a client who runs Officemate and their previous IT group used an Alto2 on their server. They were past the 1 year term and were wanting to backup major workstations as well. Normally in this scenario we switch over to Replibit as the cost savings is enormous (for both me and the client.. win, win!) but the weekend of on-boarding me and other other tech thought what the heck, we'll try spinning up the Alto VM, disconnect the server and see how one of the workstations runs. Officemate was barely usable (SQL based). I showed the business owner and asked if this was acceptable in a disaster scenario. The guy was furious.

My point was to make sure before hand that Alto2 is going to work well in a disaster recovery. I didn't realize Exchange worked well, so that is good to know. You just need to meet the owners / partners expectations since they are the ones forking over the money. Brian is right.. use common sense, however how many techs do you see actually doing this? Heck the MSP right down the street from us - uses pirated Win7 Ultimate and Office 2007 VLK's. Common sense is a rarity these days.

 

[CTL]

Hmm, that is interesting. What was their internet speed?

They have Verizon Fios 150mbps up/down. That is what you have to consider as well, if the customer has slow speed, its definitely going to be a problem with ALTO.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

They have Verizon Fios 150mbps up/down. That is what you have to consider as well, if the customer has slow speed, its definitely going to be a problem with ALTO.

Yup the primary factor here is the VPN connection. Just like when you have a multi-site WAN for a client and your connect them using site to site VPN tunnels...you order the highest internet package for all the sites. Which leads to best "across the WAN" performance. If the client has a 6 meg down, 256k upstream..DSL connection...I'm not going to expect things to run well through that skinny straw....versus a 50 meg down 10 meg up cable pipe.

MS Exchange will run fine...it's not something you really measure performance with. Outlook either shows "connected" or not. e-mail can slowly trickle sync..and the client is not aware of lack of speed. That's one of the reasons Outlook Anywhere on hosted Exchange is always perceived to be fine.

But yeah....benefits of "virtualizing locally" (Siris) versus "virtualizing offsite only" (Alto)....conversation should always be had with the client and let their wallet make the decision. Alto..free hardware and low cost monthly, versus Siris...pay for hardware and of course monthly can scale higher and higher..but their entry level units (the 500's)...comparable monthly to Alto.