Sure to gore some oxen: Not everyone's sold on Azure

britechguy

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The following was posted, unprompted, in one of the blind-centric venues where I participate regularly. And before anyone pooh-poohs, read to the end of the quote:

I am not a fan of the 365 app world. Frankly I would stay on 2016 for ever if I could. They keep stripping features out of 2019 and 2022 and moving them to MSO 365 trying to force all users to their cloud. I am never willing to trust MS with any documents, as their Azure cloud has more security holes in it than a sieve. Although if one configures some 10K compliance and governance settings you can mostly plug the holes. I have been in computing since ’64. I have worked on many MS internal development and security projects.

So, clearly, it's not just the "unwashed masses" that have reservations whether one shares those reservations or not.
 
I dont trust anyone. The presumption of privacy is gone; it went long ago. We are all working for the corporations.
Get ready to start paying for the air we breathe..
 
The presumption of privacy is gone; it went long ago.

I sadly have to agree. It's a matter of keeping what little you can, which is very, very little indeed.

I've said many times in the past that even if you ignore data syphons and dossier creators in the tech world (and we all know the big names there) a huge amount of the things that were once private because, although they were public records, you had to go to specific locations to get them and there was no easy way for anyone to combine disparate pieces from disparate places about one person. Public records now being available online and computers being able to collate this stuff from "everywhere" in no time makes most of what was once one's own private life anything but.

But I'm guessing that the main goring of oxen among some of our membership will be the assessment that Azure is not, in reality, a fortress that cannot be breached. I've never believed that anything in the cyber world is. Sure, some technologies and companies are far better about security than others (and MS is pretty good), but if there's a "determined someone" they will, eventually, find a way in. Computer security is and always will be a game of cat and mouse. No one's ever going to win, and breaches are always going to happen. (Pretty much like intrusions in "the real world" always have and will continue to occur.)
 
Azure cloud has more security holes in it than a sieve

Citation needed...

But trust isn't based on reality, it's based on feelings. And when it comes to Microsoft products, it's their cloud or bust.

People are welcome to not like that, but they also need to understand that choice means abandoning the Microsoft ecosystem entirely. Which I'm also fine with, and actively encourage in many cases.
 
So...can the guy put down links to "facts"? Cuz all I see is his opinion...and, ya know what they say about opinions...they're like arseholes...everyone has one! (including me, I know).

He may have been in computing since 1964...but TBH, the days of transporting data in Fortran on punch cards are....well, no more! Doubt we're going back to that. I started playing with computers in '84...and started my work career with computers in ..'96 I believe, right when Win95"B" came out....so I have my roots in "local stuff", and seen it all evolve.

Microsoft spends more on security than any of my clients. Microsoft spends more on security than all of the clients across all of us members here combined. Microsoft spends more on security than all of the clients of all the IT MSPs in the IT BOG facebook group combined. Microsoft knows they're a big target, they have been nearly DOUBLING their annual security budget in each of the past 3 years.

I sure see a lot of people who say "I don't trust the cloud"...send me an email from their AOL account. Hmmm...one of the earlier "cloud" technologies....yup. The term "phishing" arose from tricks against AOL users way back then....

Or I'll find that they have Dropbox on their computer. Hmmm...

What a lot of people don't realize, take a sample of the networks of 100 businesses around you. I'd be willing to bet...the majority of those networks will have..."bad stuff" sitting on them. Everyone thinks that ...if a network got some malware on it..they think it's only stuff like a virus, or..perhaps they have heard of ransomware. Thus they think the problem will surface immediately. It's actually usually not something that will surface immediately. The bad guys are patient. They're after a bigger pot at the end of the rainbow. They have stuff sitting on the computers of businesses that...sit do things quietly over time.

I made more money by selling and installing servers at clients. Those were big paying jobs, and it cost the clients a lot over the long run too, monthly support costs, etc. And my standards for servers was high....mid and upper range models...for reliability and performance and long life. Clients we've migrated to 365...we make less money on. But I tell ya, I feel better about their data, I feel better about their reliability of day to day use, I enjoy not having to work after hours or early in the morning to do monthly updates and reboots of servers, and no "911 calls" because a server is down. No big server migration projects every 5 or 7 years. Much less stress for me. Microsoft has better tools to secure my clients data that I had with their on prem stuff. And I did things pretty high end!
 
Microsoft spends more on security than any of my clients. Microsoft spends more on security than all of the clients across all of us members here combined. Microsoft spends more on security than all of the clients of all the IT MSPs in the IT BOG facebook group combined. Microsoft knows they're a big target, they have been nearly DOUBLING their annual security budget in each of the past 3 years.
Its crazy the amount of people who say things like "Azure cloud has more security holes in it than a sieve" provide no real evidence (or some evidence of an issue patched long ago or never an issue in the real world) and seem to think that Microsoft are cool with this "fact". How it doesnt cross their mind that, as you say, they spend more of security than most of the planet because they know they are a massive target with a huge amount of both their own and client data is amazing. They arent going to want any of that being leaked.

I have clients who need to be Cyber Essentials (plus) certified and using M365 makes this relatively easy to do. You mention data is stored on the cloud and it opens a lot more questions to be certified, but putting they are stored in Onedrive/Sharepoint/Microsoft ecosystem and they assessors are fine with that. Its much easier than explaining that an on-prem server is being 5 locked doors and only 2 people in the company can access that room, both of which have government level security clearance and there are 300 cctv cameras all pointed at one server which is monitored 24/7 by 3 people from a secret bunker.

To be clear, the last sentence is sarcasm, but you wont get certified by saying we have an on-prem server in a locked server room on site.
 
That would make him a it 80 years old right now. Not saying that totally disqualifies him, but I’d say it’d be pretty rare to find many his age who are experts in the field today.
**** I was born 1964. Thanks for making me feel old yet not as old as this geezer?
 
**** I was born 1964. Thanks for making me feel old yet not as old as this geezer?

Add two years for me. And contrary to certain assertions (which even I will admit can be correct), it's entirely possible for someone of that age to be a very seasoned professional indeed, even if they're not literally "in the trenches" every day. Many folks never lose their interest and do actually keep up (and particularly those who have been "on the inside" at times in their careers).

I'd venture to say that some of us "geezers" here actually have a lot more knowledge, and useful knowledge, that is the direct result of having "been there, done that, got the T-shirt" more times than we'd care to count. I'm also of the opinion that there have been almost no true revolutions in computing since I entered the field. There have been some tremendous advances, that's for sure, but they have all been, with the exception of the AI we're seeing now, direct extensions of the basics I was taught and that still apply. It's been much more "ultra fast evolution" than actual foundational revolution for as long as I've been in the business. I don't succumb to, "Oooooh, shiny!," syndrome with any ease. It's generally just the next variation on well worn themes.
 
Oh I actually believe Azure has more security holes than a sieve. In fact I know that statement is true!

But what I also know is those security holes were put there by idiot admins that configured their crap insecurely... because yeah that happens when you don't know WTF you're doing.
 
I'll stick with the "old ways", Open-Source, or otherwise self-hosted, where possible. Everything I can do myself, gets done myself.

I mean, this is just in the last 1.5 years. For those claiming it to be "secure" - well, it's certainly on a sliding scale of sorts:

Azure API Management Vulnerabilities Allowed Unauthorized Access -May 4th 2023
Three vulnerabilities in the Azure API Management service could be exploited for internal asset access, DoS, firewall bypass, and the upload of malicious files.

Misconfiguration Allowed For Manipulation of Bing Search Results, Attacks on Users - April 11th 2023
A Microsoft misconfiguration error created an opening for attackers to not only manipulate Bing search results, but to potentially steal Office 365 credentials. The good news is that the issue was discovered by a major cloud security firm, duly reported to Microsoft, and patched. The bad news is that the configuration issue is easy to accidentally replicate in Azure Active Directory multi-tenant apps, and the researchers found that about 25% of those that they scanned were vulnerable.

Hackers Abused Microsoft's "Verified Publisher" OAuth Apps to Breach Corporate Email Accounts Feb 1 2023
Microsoft on Tuesday said it took steps to disable fake Microsoft Partner Network (MPN) accounts that were used for creating malicious OAuth applications as part of a phishing campaign designed to breach organizations' cloud environments and steal email.
"The applications created by these fraudulent actors were then used in a consent phishing campaign, which tricked users into granting permissions to the fraudulent apps," the tech giant said. "This phishing campaign targeted a subset of customers primarily based in the U.K. and Ireland."

Microsoft data breach: what we know so far - Dec 10th 2022
The global IT giant exposed thousands of users' data, but kept victims in the dark.
After SCORadar flagged a Microsoft data breach at the end of October, the company confirmed that a server misconfiguration had caused 65,000+ companies’ data to be leaked. A security lapse left an Azure endpoint available for unauthenticated access in the incident, termed “BlueBleed.”

Russian APT29 hackers abuse Azure services to hack Microsoft 365 users - August 19 2022

Microsoft 365 users on a higher-grade E5 license enjoy a security feature named "Purview Audit" (formerly Advanced Audit). When enabled, this feature logs user agents, IP addresses, timestamps, and usernames each time an email is accessed independently of the program (Outlook, browser, Graph API). Stealthy network intruders like APT29 would rather not have their movements traced and logged. So to evade audits on compromised accounts, the hackers disable the Purview Audit feature on a targeted user before they even touch their mail folders.

Microsoft Employees Exposed Own Company’s Internal Logins - August 16th 2022
A cybersecurity firm found that Microsoft workers uploaded sensitive login credentials to Microsoft's own systems to GitHub.
Hussein provided Motherboard with seven examples in total of exposed Microsoft logins. All of these were credentials for Azure servers. Azure is Microsoft’s cloud computer service and is similar to Amazon Web Services. All of the exposed credentials were associated with an official Microsoft tenant ID. A tenant ID is a unique identifier linked to a particular set of Azure users. One of the GitHub users also listed Microsoft on their profile.

6 'nightmare' cloud security flaws were found in Azure in the last year. Does Microsoft have work to do? - June 1st 2022
They reported gaining access to databases in thousands of customer environments, or tenants, including those of numerous Fortune 500 companies. This was possible because the cloud runs on shared infrastructure — and as it turns out, that can uncover some shared risks that cloud providers thought were solved problems. If you didn’t hear about this incident from last summer, that’s probably because the hackers who broke into Microsoft’s Cosmos DB service were not cybercriminals.
“It’s concerning. And it is a pattern,” said Rich Mogull, CEO at independent security research firm Securosis and a longtime security industry analyst.
“I think that in the cloud space right now, compared to other vendors, they might be a bit behind [on security],” Alon said.



Eh, I'll go it alone.. it's like a monthly headache for these guys.
 
I'll stick with the "old ways", Open-Source, or otherwise self-hosted, where possible. Everything I can do myself, gets done myself.

I mean, this is just in the last 1.5 years. For those claiming it to be "secure" - well, it's certainly on a sliding scale of sorts:

However, it's a "pick your poison". prefer open source? Let's take a look at some alternative file sharing programs...vulnerabilities/exploits..
Owncloud...yup, got its share..

Prefer NextCloud? Its got 'em too

Prefer a more well known brand, just not Microsoft?
Dropbox is big..

Google drive..yeah that too.
Any service out there...can/will/does have exploits against it.
But let's face it, the vast majority of these issues stem from end user lack of education, and improperly set up service (lazy or unskilled admins, or the cheap do-it-yourselfers). Most of the links you posted are "Can happen...IF...someone failed to <set up the tenant properly>..."

Those of us that MSP for businesses, business (our clients/potential clients)..for the most part, run on standardized LOB software that is designed to run in the Microsoft ecosystem. We try to guide them and set things up as best we can..for a combination of security, reliability, usability, and all other related things.
 
1958 for me

OK - I'll play this game....

1955 for me. :rolleyes:

I used to watch the grad students carry around their programs in boxes of punch cards. Saw a guy carry his box of cards trip on the stairs and spill them all over the floor. He was actually crying and I don't blame him as there were thousands of cards. I was the radical one in my class and used a CRT for my stuff. That and used an acoustic coupler (300 bps?) from work to modem into the mainframe and run my homework. That was bleeding edge for my class.

220px-Analogue_modem_-_acoustic_coupler.jpg
 
Eh, I'll go it alone.. it's like a monthly headache for these guys.

Not questioning your (or anyone's) choice, but as has been noted it's a "pick your poison" and/or "six of one, half a dozen of another" situation in the grand scheme of things.

But your post, in its entirety (and although it's about Microsoft, it's not really only about Microsoft) just proves my point that no matter how many hoops, there's some clever someone, some of whom are truly nefarious others doing it for kicks, who are going to figure out how to jump those hoops. And, once the nefarious actors have, they don't pick their targets by "opening a phone book to a random page and putting their finger down." They carefully research who it is who has what they want and has "the most of it."

There's very little "smash and grab" cyber crime anymore. It's amateurish and you "lose your source(s)" too quickly.

Hence the reason that if you're going to clutch your pearls and wring your hands every time there's a data breach you're going to be doing so 24/7 for the rest of your life. They are, and will remain, a fact of life. They're just this era's version of what's been happening since time immemorial, but done with methods that allow scales never thought to have been possible in the past. We know they're possible now.
 
I don't use any cloud services as a repository. It's all a local server(s) with remote access over VPN Wireguard, so the server is generally not exposed to the internet. Beyond that, everything lives in it's own Dockers on an Unraid server that has double redundant backups on multiple storage pools.

I don't really share files.. I only back them up. If a file needs to be shared, I can email it or upload it to said cloud services.. but I don't push "everything" "up there".

I use UrBackup for the clients.

I really see no reason to use a Cloud service, and I've made it this far with basically the same functionality (from a personal standpoint, not a sharing one)
 
@phaZed All that on premise stuff has vulns just like the cloud services. The difference is YOU have to patch it, and even if you don't because it's on the same network as the users as soon as they click on the wrong thing the entire platform is gone. Each and every link you posted is a non-issue for me because Microsoft fixed it for me before the news even broke. I did... NOTHING. I get to focus on the fun things people need to be better at their jobs, not worried about platform patching.

On Premise stuff is wonderful, and if you're VLAN'ing it correctly, it's from a security perspective equivalent to the cloud service. What you lose out on is the scale and access.

Cloud enabled companies get to have employees all over the planet with essentially local access performance levels. You're at the mercy of whatever crap internet connection is at the office. Not to mention all the expense incurred in building a mini-datacenter into the office to house, cool, and provide redundant power to the equipment.

The only time I've seen on premise be "cheaper" than cloud is when the on premise environment wasn't invested in correctly. And at 42, I'm DONE running to a client's office in a mad panic because that server went down because they refused to upgrade it while it was 5 years out of warranty.

I've written at least 6 SOWs for projects in the last week that are dealing with upgrading Server 2012 assets alone. All due to this very same lack of investment.

But, all of this also concerns the business in question, what their goals are, what their budget is, and what their needs are. On premise is great, but every environment I support that decided to stay on premise is currently having greater than normal staffing issues because they're poorly equipped to do the work from home thing. This trend is accelerating, so I'm forced to go back to these clients and ask them the hard question... Do you want employees? Because if yes, we need to get this sorted out one way or another.
 
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