What kind of server do you sell?

[Jmage]

Hey Guys,

I was wondering what kind of server do you sell/quote for small business between 5 to 20 employees? I'm asking about brands and types, not specs.

For the past 7 years I sold only Intel servers that I pieced together myself, SBS2003/2008/2011, 2008 R2, 2012 R2. They have been rock solid but last week I tried quoting one to a client and it seems all the parts are getting discontinued slowly. I don't know if Intel will renew it and would like to know what you guys recommend?

I don't like HP and Dell, maybe because of there retail products that are too cheap. I'm also a Lenovo reseller but when it comes to hard drives in their server you can only go with their models because it comes with the HDD Carrier and their price is RIDICOULUS (400$ for 2TB HDD???) and you don't know what brand you'll get.

I looked a little in Supermicro, seems very nice to be able to get all the hardware at the same place. My concern is their motherboard, are they any good? I'm used to Intel motherboard with Advanced swap warranty.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mrapoc]

From what I've gathered Dell and Lenovo make pretty solid servers in general. My friend who works on servers daily says to avoid fujitsu though

 

[Jmage]

From what I've gathered Dell and Lenovo make pretty solid servers in general. My friend who works on servers daily says to avoid fujitsu though

Thanks for the input. I would like to avoid Dell as I don't know their products and I'm not an authorised reseller. Lenovo as good reliability from what I found too but what about their lower-end servers like the TS440 or TS140?

 

[mrapoc]

I am just setting up a home server - well it's arriving in about 20 minutes

Was going to get a TS140 using the various cashback deals - £240 after cashback in the UK...

Then I found the Dell T20 for £199 ex vat and a further £70 off with cashback. Needless to say I went for the T20 (both are basically the same machine).

Both are low end and will require some form of raid card for what I want to do - along with an intel nic and some more ECC ram (got ram and dual nic off ebay for a nice price).

Will be ok for basic file storage and messing about. I wouldn't get that grade for business - however I have limited experience anyway. I'm gonna virtualise my t20 - make a pfsense VM and a server 2012 with AD and GP to mess about with file shares/VPN etc.

 

[gikstar]

We like Dell servers and at times have Equus build a server for us:https://www.equuscs.com/login

 

[Jmage]

Thanks for the answer, it seems Dell and HP are always the one who comes up first. No one build their own server?

 

[mrapoc]

Impressed with the dell t20 build quality especially for the money! So far...

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

HP generally first, Dell for some clients and more budget jobs.
Dell T300 HP ML/DL 330 class or higher.

 

[Slaters Kustum Machines]

We use Dell. I'm confused that you would turn them down because you don't know the products, but it would seem you are asking the question because you don't know what to use. As for consumer grade, it's just that and business grade should not be judged based on that. For that matter I wouldn't really recommend any brand if based on the consumer line.

 

[nesrinamb]

Dell and HP are both pretty good.

I used to work at a place a while back that had Supermicro and they seemed fairly solid, but they had the higher end ones.

Typically I won't build my own because I just don't want to. If I'm building a server I also don't have time to research each individual part.

Just stick to the mid to high servers and you're good.

 

[skdmaster]

I use only Dell servers. It was a few years back when I picked up a client with a Dell server that had the gold warranty service is what sold me. Motherboard started flaking out - called support and worked with them - determined was a board issue - 3 hours later I had a replacement board in hand from courier service.

 

[MDD1963]

No one build their own server?

I like building my own systems for home use (practice, and specific mainboard selection) , but, when supplying parts for customers, it's hard to go wrong commercially with names you've heard of....(plus it is very hard to build anything to even match Dell's prices unless you intend to go bargain basement at Tiger Direct, and stick with free linux distros, and, hope the businesses are impressed by words such as 'custom built')

As the old addage goes...

'No one was ever fired for recommending Intel or Dell!'

 

[Frick]

Dell and HP servers also use proprietary drive caddies, so its the same story for all the major manufactures.

I primarily sell Lenovo, but usually buy the drives separately (western digital enterprise drives), and purchase the needed drive caddies on eBay. You can find them for around $14 each.

The downside to installing your own drives is they don't fall under the Lenovo warranty. That being said, the extra profit I make from this allows me to keep some spare drives on hand for quick replacement.

 

[Jmage]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I turned down Dell based on what we see in our repair shop. I never used their business product nor their servers. In the beginning I sold HP servers before I found Intel was manufacturing server parts I could build myself. The HP servers I sold has been solid but then what I see in our repair shop about HP consumer product really turns me off this brand.

What I really don't like is as Frick said, they use proprietary drive caddy. What if I want to put some WD RE4 and Intel Enterprises SSD in? 5 years warranty on these drives instead of the default 1 or 3 years from HP/Dell/Lenovo.

I talked to my distributor and he said he would start distributing Dell hardware maybe next month. So I'll see how it goes and probly give Dell a try. That way if the server fails at least I could say it's Dell fault!

Thank you for your answers, if you have more infos for me please post them.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You'll notice most brands will have "business level products"...and "residential level products".

Most IT people that worked on residential only...will have experiences similar to yours...they've only see HP residential grade desktops/towers/laptops..the "el cheapo" $499 models from big chain stores like WorstBuy...I mean..BestBuy..or entry level Dells, or entry level Lenovos, and...yes...of course those are crap. Dell Inspirons and XPS laptops, and Dimension desktops for example.

Yet...if you have worked on business level computers....like users ago Compaq made DeskPro and Evo models...now they are HP Elite desktops, and Dell Optiplex and Precisions for towers, and Latitude and Precisions for laptops. And Lenovo's Thinkpad and ThinkCentre series. All excellent..excellent products.

When it comes to servers...stick to top brand stuff. Now, let me preface this...by saying I loved "building my own" servers and computers, years ago I was big into it. I used to custom build high end servers for online gaming, and used to build high end gaming computers. Loved it! But I don't want to support anyone elses home made stuff. Never know if they did enough research on the parts for compatibility, stability, etc I remember years ago taking on a cheap law firm client..they had a home grown cloner server...once every month or so it would lock up...hard lock. I spend hours..and hours...and hours...troubleshooting. Mostly after hours of course..so it wasn't downtime during the day. Found out eventually...after such a long time of troubleshooting..there was a BIOS compatibility problem that that particular Soyo brand el crappo motherboard had with its onboard NIC...with the Adaptec RAID controller. So...the choice was...replace the RAID controller....substantial $ to put into the server.....or get a proper HP Proliant server. They went to the Proliant. Heck...all the $ they paid me to try to troubleshoot that home built server...they were half way to the price of a new server...LOL.

First thing that is important...."service/warranty". Tier-1 brand servers will have excellent warranties....both by default, and for really important clients that can't have downtime...they have excellent additional options. Like hardware/onsite support within 4 hours by a support tech. Additionally...warranty/replacement parts are plentiful, and they are "stocked" to be available for many years down the road.

Also something else to consider if you support business clients, you should put in systems that are able to be supported by another tech down the road....say you get hit by a bus or something. Support on "motherboard of the month club" parts is a pain in the butt! I don't want to spend hours trying to track down some warranty or replacement part. I need to be able to get that part overnighted, at no expense, with just something like 5 minutes on the phone...or in a support online chat window.

When we visit a potential client....and I see home grown cloners on their network....my price for some MSP package like a ProActive or a full Managed AYCE plan goes up...or at least I will not "bargain" or reduce my prices like I might if the client had proper Tier-1 products. For someone on our MSP plans...I know I will be spending more time trying to support their systems. And with MSP plans...since you bill them a set price each month, if you spend "more time" fixing junk...you're cutting how profitable that client is. I'd rather have good solid systems and spend less time...less labor....which makes it more profitable for that fixed price.

Also...with servers, stay away from those "100" series models. Those ain't real servers...those are glorified desktops. Cheap onboard "fake RAID" controller, and SATA hard drives...that's desktop stuff. True servers should start at over a thousand dollars just for the barebones chassis itself..and then you option it with drive cages, hardware based RAID controller, true enterprise SAS hard drives, power supplies, RAM, etc.

Don't go in cheap. Clients may hem and haw at the price of a server proposal..and try to whittle you down. You..and them...they only lose if you go cheap and skimp on the server. What they don't realize (nor do many techs)...is that going cheap and under-specing the server only hurts things in the long run. The server is slow. Affects their employees and production. And your ongoing maintenance...some bogged down server on SATA hard drives and minimal RAM takes you an hour or more to run those MIcrosoft updates...at after hour billing rates....leads to higher support bills over the several years of life of the server.

 

[Jmage]

Hey YoOldeStonecat,

Thanks alot for the advice. But I only support business clients and I already installed many servers. I have techs at my shop that does the Residential clients. So I'm pretty familliar with business having clone system with no licence and super cheap hardware and no documentation.

I believe in building your own systems with top brands like Intel Motherboards. I'm a Gold Intel Partner, I get my parts overnight Under warranty without even talking to someone there. I never go cheap with my client but you need to adapt to their budget.

All my system have Intel motherboard with the respectful warranty of 3 years any technician could claim. Now that Intel doesn't produce desktop boards anymore, I sell Asus CSM class motherboard with the same warranty. I mostly plan all my moves so if another technician has to take my place, be it from another IT company, everything will be easy for him and I have good documentation of all my clients setup and I leave them a copy too.

I try my best to make sure my clients can't says I didn't tell them this or that or I sold them cheap system or they doesn't know any passwords. You know the thing we face each time we go to a new client that isn't satisfied with is current IT guy

All this to say I'm not new to the server/business game. I sold a TS440 this week for a small client. I should receive it today, I hope it will met my expectations.

Again, thanks for replying. I would like to know what brand of servers do you recommend?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

We do mostly HP Proliant ML350 and DL360 class....and higher.
A few clients on Dell servers if we're held to a budget...the T320 or 430 class or higher...we have a few 600 series out there.

We used to do a few Lenovo's years ago, the X series rack mounts...even ran several of those for ourselves. While Lenovo's Thinkpads are our laptop of choice for clients, past few years...haven't done their servers. No particular reason really...guess we just focus on HP for those. They make good servers. Haven't seen the TS400 you're getting...took a quick look. Looks like the TS series is SATA driven, and the TDs are more for SAS drives. I really try to stay away from SATA on servers..unless it's for 1 or 3 users...something really small, and not driving applications on it. Even then, I'd be starting with 4 drives...smallest servers I do are usually pair of small drives RAID 1 for the OS, and another larger pair of drives RAID 1 for the data volume. I almost always avoid doing a single RAID volume and partitioning that...as the performance loss of a single spindle vs a pair of spindles is too great. I see so many servers with a single RAID 5 and multiple partitions on it...and someone threw SBS on it. Yuck! I can mow my lawn faster with a pair of toenail clippers faster than that thing could reboot.

 

[TAPtech]

Originally I did Dell, really like the T320 and better, they are well built and the chassis is very professional looking. I recently started to push Lenovo for pretty much everything, laptops, workstations, and servers. The TS140 is a great little box for those small clients, maybe up to 5 PC's with light access needs. Get the Xeon CPU and do RAID1/RAID1 and it will perform great. Low cost, and low redundancy, but let's be honest- the clients that get these boxes don't need a super redundant dual PSU server.

I have done a TS440 for a similar situation where they just needed more drives basically. Bigger chassis and has dual PSU's but they're using Intel AMT ONLY, there's no Dell OMSA equivalent. So that's sort of a poop. The TD340+ series have much better redundancy and dual sockets. All depends on the client.

So far I have been pleased with Lenovo. Only thing I don't like is that superfish crap. It doesn't affect any of the systems I sell but I don't want my clients saying "oh we don't like Lenovo, they sell your FaceBook passwords." yada yada.

My last client had a Dell T300 that needed to be retired. Client specifically asked for a different brand because he got a laptop for his daughter that was a POS and didn't last very long "No more Dells for me!" This was probably the cheapest laptop available. Arg! Well, good thing I switched to Lenovo

 

[marley1]

Dell all the way.

T20 for small sites. I generally just build it with 2 x 500 solid state drives, or even 2 x 1 tb solid state drives. Throw on Foundation or Essentials.
T320 or Higher for everyone else.

Everything is virtualization on T320 or highers

 

[Jmage]

@YeOldeStonecat
Good advice again! I try to get SAS whenever possible but the cost is way more than a low-end server. I never do 1 spindle. Always RAID1 for OS and RAID1 for Data (I try to get SSDs when possible). The TS440 is for a small client of about 10 PCs but only 30gigs of Word and Excel. I should have included a RAID adapter but it will be fine for them with the onboard controller. I'm replacing their old SBS2003 that had a drive failure last week. Took me 2 hours to transfert their data to a temp desktop and recreate the share. Easy job here

@TAPtech
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a good Lenovo rep to help me with price and quote so I'll stay with Lenovo for now I guess. Didn't saw real bad review about them. If things get bad, I can switch to Dell easily.

I knew it was a good idea posting this question on this forum. Realy helpful people here!