Win95 era IDE HDD and Win10?

[HFultzjr]

Unless I'm missing something, I would:
Fire-up an old PC with IDE, Floppy, CD, etc.
Plug old drive to 1 IDE and good drive to 2nd IDE.
May have to change the jumper configurations.
Use a bootable lightweight copy of Linux for old PCs
I like Parted Magic, but you might have to use something really light on resources (Puppy Linux), maybe
Copy files, image or both.
I keep some old junk around just for this.
Once copied some 5-1/4 disks to 3-1/2 disks to CD for someone.

 

[Diggs]

Use a bootable lightweight copy of Linux for old PCs

In what? No USB. No CD. No DVD. Only floppy. I have no floppies and no way to handle a floppy on any bench machine I have any more.

 

[sapphirescales]

In what? No USB. No CD. No DVD. Only floppy. I have no floppies and no way to handle a floppy on any bench machine I have any more.

This is why you need to have a "modern" PC with IDE and floppy support on the motherboard. My "modern" retro PC has an Intel motherboard with 2GB of RAM, a Pentium 4 2.80Ghz processor and dual boots with Windows 98SE & Windows XP Professional. It has 7x PCI slots, 1x ISA slot, and 1x AGP slot and supports IDE hard drives and floppy drives. The motherboard doesn't have built-in SATA ports so I have a dedicated SATA controller plugged into one of the PCI slots. It has 2x 128GB Compact Flash cards that are removable from the back via slot-loading PCI cards and has a single 1TB SATA hard drive for data backup/storage.

If I had this hard drive on my bench, my first step would be to put it into my "modern" retro PC and use Norton Ghost to mirror it over to a Compact Flash card. Then if he still wanted to keep using such old hardware, I'd sell him the Compact Flash card along with the adapter so he could use it in his old PC.

I still service quite a few old PC's. Just today I got in an old Dell Celeron Windows 98 machine with a failing hard drive. I imaged the drive and pulled all their documents/pictures off of it, then put the image onto a CF card and put it back in their machine so they could continue using it. I also upgraded their power supply and got them all the way up to 128MB of RAM. They declined a processor upgrade. But to be honest, despite it being a Celeron, it's plenty fast with the new CF card.

The reason for keeping the old computer? It still has a program or two they want to use (some sort of checkbook program and a Family Tree program), and they like it and don't want to get rid of it. No internet of course, but back in the 90's the internet wasn't really necessary to use a computer. Times were much simpler back then.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm a fan of DOSBox for gaming but I like vDOS for apps these days. It's relatively new (I think) and I've used it a few times now. I install it in My Documents so backups/sync are included.

BTW - It's not really a database app he is using. It creates 4 files for every survey job and that's it. They stand alone. Those I have retrieved.

Ah..saw "land survey" software and figured it might be the same ancient program one of our clients still clings to...I don't take care of that client but one of our techs does and I always hear him grumble about setting up a new rig with that program. I recall him saying it's on RBase. Either way, even flat file based like Clipper for DOS, often still needed Files and Buffers statements and other tweaks to be able to stuff certain files into RAM for performance. Sometimes would give an error if config.sys didn't have appropriate entries.

Haven't checked out vDOS...luckily none of my clients still run any legacy apps. A quick looks on Google people seem to love it more.

 

[HFultzjr]

In what? No USB. No CD. No DVD. Only floppy. I have no floppies and no way to handle a floppy on any bench machine I have any more.

Sorry, missed that you didn't have CD.
What about booting a "small" linux on one HD and copy files from the original to the booted drive.
That is if you have 2 IDE.
I seem to remember some IDE have 2 connections.
Would need to configure as master/slave.

 

[NJW]

One of my Linux machine still has IDE on board. It booted Win95 from that IDE drive (by mistake). Connecting it any time after the boot into Linux froze the machine.

IDE is not hot-pluggable, even under Linux, but you should be able to change the boot priority away from the Win95 disk (sorry, @Philippe, I didn't see your reply).

@sapphirescales' CF card suggestion would be my choice. CF/IDE adapters are cheap and I've had good success running v. old laptops with a CF card as the main drive. You can put the Win95 disk and the CF card on the same IDE cable, as master and slave, on your Linux box. Make two copies to CF cards, while you're there.

 

[sapphirescales]

@sapphirescales' CF card suggestion would be my choice. CF/IDE adapters are cheap and I've had good success running v. old laptops with a CF card as the main drive. You can put the Win95 disk and the CF card on the same IDE cable, as master and slave, on your Linux box. Make two copies to CF cards, while you're there.

I concur with making two different copies, but I like to use old software when I'm dealing with old hardware. It tends to be more compatible with less surprises. I mean, I could buy build a brand new computer (running Windows 10 Professional on an NVMe SSD) and install a PCI IDE adapter to connect old IDE drives, but it just wouldn't be the same. And I love using old software like Norton Ghost to mirror old drives. Not only is it super nostalgic, but there's something special about using old hardware and software together. Things just work a lot more seamlessly. Things were a lot simpler back then and stuff just worked. Back then, they couldn't just release buggy software, expecting to fix it with an update later down the road. Back then, releasing an update required physically mailing every one of their customers a floppy disk. That cost them money, so they made d*mned sure that their software worked properly before they released it.

 

[NJW]

... but I like to use old software when I'm dealing with old hardware.
[snip]
And I love using old software like Norton Ghost to mirror old drives. Not only is it super nostalgic, but there's something special about using old hardware and software together.

@sapphirescales has a romantic side – who knew?

In this case, however, it's business choice, IMO, to use what's there and tools that are immediately familiar. Re-learning a 20-year-old Norton Ghost really doesn't fit ...

Things were a lot simpler back then and stuff just worked.

Wow, rose-tinted hindsight! It really didn't for a lot of the time and the printed manual frequently had a page full of caveats. Software met expectations only because expectations were very low.

 

[sapphirescales]

@sapphirescalesIn this case, however, it's business choice, IMO, to use what's there and tools that are immediately familiar. Re-learning a 20-year-old Norton Ghost really doesn't fit ...

I guess the difference with me is I never lost that knowledge. I kept using old software and hardware throughout all these years. I still use Windows XP daily, and Windows 98 at least two or three times a week. I don't have a system with just DOS, but I do use DOS software as well by rebooting in MS-DOS mode in Windows 98.

@sapphirescalesWow, rose-tinted hindsight! It really didn't for a lot of the time and the printed manual frequently had a page full of caveats. Software met expectations only because expectations were very low.

It depends on the software of course. I'm not saying all software was good, but it was generally better back then than it is today. The reason why people remember having so many problems was because technology was moving so fast back then that if you had a 2 year old computer, it was considered ancient. People were trying to run software on hardware that just wasn't up to the task. But using 90's hardware and software nowadays is a real joy not just because of nostalgia but because you can get cutting-edge hardware for pennies on the dollar.

Emulation and VM's suck for precisely the same reason why the old software ran so horribly in the 90's...the hardware just isn't 100% compatible. Trying to run 90's software on modern hardware is even worse than trying to run 90's software on inadequate period-specific hardware.

The only time I have problems with old software is if I try to run it on hardware that it wasn't meant to run on. I have problems running some Windows 98 stuff on my Pentium 4 because - news flash - Windows 98 wasn't designed to run on a Pentium 4 and neither was most Windows 98 era software. That's why I also have a Pentium II and Pentium III machine running Windows 98. Stuff is a LOT more stable running on PC100/133 memory than DDR1. But Windows XP runs like dog sh*t on PC100/133 memory and anything less than a Pentium 4 so I make do most of the time. Remember...we're talking about two different OS's that were released only 3 years apart from one another (Windows 98 in 1998 and Windows XP in 2001). THAT'S why old software seemed so buggy back then - no one had the right hardware to run it optimally!

 

[innovativeteks]

I had a customer that had a DOS financial app. Used it for running numbers for projections. He just likes it.

Ended up installing a VM of Windows 95 on Windows 7 and with testing it worked. Just copied the data on the drive.

 

[Philippe]

[...]And I love using old software like Norton Ghost to mirror old drives. Not only is it super nostalgic, but there's something special about using old hardware and software together. Things just work a lot more seamlessly. [...]

I've just finished to Ghost a failing Windows 95 ide hdd to another good one. Waiting for a CF to IDE adapter to arrive... from China
Just for my personal fun btw

 

[Diggs]

Just for the update -

I contacted the current company (Carlson Software) and Dean Goodman (one of the authors and the "G" in C&G Software) got right back to me with an unlocked version of the program for my customer. His download included a link to DOSBox so it appears it's somewhat approved for virtual DOS. He gave me some tips for printing and the LPT1 dongle isn't required. Many thanks to Dean for the support and being a class act you don't see much any more.

 

[seedubya]

500GB

If it's DOS 6.22 we're talking 2GB max partition size and it needs to be FAT 16 not FAT 32. Best option here is an old, working machine if he really insists on keeping this running.

 

[lcoughey]

I've skimmed through all the comments here and it seems that nobody has asked the obvious. Did you check the jumper settings on the drive? I suspect that most models of IDE drive will not detect in a USB dock unless they are set as master (or master single drive only) rather than master with slave or cable select. It may not resolve the issue, but certainly would be the first spot to start.

Just the same, it seems you managed to get a copy of the drive. Good job.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Hopefully, I would still remember to check that on an IDE drive. I've not had to mess with one in several years now.

 

[HCHTech]

I contacted the current company (Carlson Software) and Dean Goodman (one of the authors and the "G" in C&G Software) got right back to me with an unlocked version of the program for my customer.

I was going to post that you contact them and ask for the person in tech support that had been with the company the longest - haha, I guess you got him. Well done.

 

[nerd2u]

I haven't moved a jumper in years I probably would have never even thought about it.

I always love when companies are prompt with their replies and are helpful in getting things sorted out.

Perhaps Microsoft could take a lesson from them.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

 

[sapphirescales]

I've skimmed through all the comments here and it seems that nobody has asked the obvious. Did you check the jumper settings on the drive? I suspect that most models of IDE drive will not detect in a USB dock unless they are set as master (or master single drive only) rather than master with slave or cable select. It may not resolve the issue, but certainly would be the first spot to start.

Just the same, it seems you managed to get a copy of the drive. Good job.

I don't normally connect IDE drives via USB (I usually connect them internally), but I've never had to mess with a jumper to get an IDE drive to recognize over my USB adapter. I've owned 2 different IDE to USB adapters over the years and neither one made me set the drive to master in order to read it.

 

[Diggs]

Did you check the jumper settings on the drive?

I'm from the MFM and RLL days so IDE jumpers come naturally. Tried it on the dock with both Master and Cable Select with no luck. I had to Master/Slave the two IDE drives on the same cable in the 486 machine when I used Win95 to copy things over. I could go back and play with the drive again but I'm spending enough time on the project already and my interest has waned.

After an initial failure with CG-Survery finding it's job files Dean reminded me his program works in absolute pathing, not relative so I have to tweak his program paths or the machine's environmental variables.