Windows 10 S Mode can just go away

I agree but that is what the product is aimed at. It shouldn't even be in retail but the OEMs need volume to build, which is one reason the upgrade option exists so that buyers can convert it easily enough.

And I am not disagreeing with you about your statement about the market segment at which S Mode is targeted.

My point, and I thought I made it clear, is that "that ship has sailed" and it's another example of Microsoft just not accepting that there are certain market segments in which they will never be able to compete. All the more so when those segments are already locked up tighter than a drum before they even jump in to them.

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It wouldn't shock me if they were to try to launch a Windows Mobile Two type product, which anyone knows is doomed from the outset. They don't learn from their past failures, nor seem to recognize how certain situations are directly analogous, if not precisely the same.
 
@britechguy So you're saying, because a more flexible option exists, this limited one shouldn't?

Again, the fact that Chromebooks exist prove you wrong here. Now I'm not sure about the games being played with the OEMs to encourage them to sell this stuff... but S mode has a place in the market. And if people don't want the limitations of S mode, they SHOULD NOT PURCHASE S mode.

This is a buyer education problem, which stems from retailers being terrible at selling technology. This is not Microsoft's fault, all they did was bring a product to the market. It's up to the market to use it correctly. I don't see anyone here frying Google for making Chromebooks. Well... except perhaps me... because I hate those things even more than S mode.

And the schools that standardize on Chromebooks? Those can all die in a fire too. You can't TEACH on products that are designed only to CONSUME. Proper education is imparting the means to create the future, and you cannot create on anything made by Google.

S Mode works fine, within the market it was supposed to work in. And it persists, because people buy it.

@Porthos Then perhaps it's about time John Q. Idiot learned you get what you pay for? At very least, stop buying mission critical personal tech from Walmart?

I keep falling back on, users will make bad decisions... and we earn our livings cleaning that up. I mean yeah I'd love everyone made correct decisions for themselves all the time too. And I do what I can to teach those within range of my voice. But I'm not going to get worked up about a product being misused. That's how I feed my kids.
 
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Chromebooks are bad for students because they don't teach real-world skills. Who uses an f-ing Chromebook except in school. If Microsoft is losing that market then they can certainly recapture it. Because unlike other markets this one is constantly changing and Microsoft can make the valid argument that their product is better for the students. This isn't the phone market where M$ offering is no better than the players already in the game that have locked it up. Education rebuilds itself every 4 to 5 years and Apple, Google, and Microsoft are all heavily completing in it.
 
And it persists, because people buy it.

And every instance I know of where it was bought it was immediately discarded.

Vendors "force" all kinds of things that purchasers undo, pronto. That's not at all the same thing as choosing to buy something because one wants it. Chromebooks are the perfect example of the flip side of that situation.

I'm not changing my mind, and clearly those who think Windows S Mode has a place aren't going to change theirs.

As a practical matter, Windows 10 S Mode is an abject failure in every meaningful way. I have not been presented a single shred of persuasive evidence otherwise.
 
If they buy them.

Indeed. And I don't see that happening (and I mean currently). Chromebooks have even (unsurprisingly, given the much lower expense than Apple products) supplanted Apple in the educational market, and they had a lot more market share than Windows 10 S has ever had, or can realistically hope to have.

There are lots of Windows machines in education, too. And virtually all of those, that aren't ancient, run Windows 10.

But there's nothing in my opinion that's aimed at anyone "on the other side" directly. I just have not seen, and do not see, that Windows 10 S has any real home anywhere. I stand by my earlier statement that it is a solution in search of a problem. Windows 10 itself is a superior option, correctly configured. And there is a massive user base that's already comfortable with it and the way it works. S Mode is nothing but a major PITA to them.
 
@britechguy Ahh now that, is a matter of perspective and further education.

S Mode vs normal Win10 changes a ton of things in inTune, or whatever MDM may be deployed. If you have an MDM at all, S Mode CAN in some cases, make a ton of sense. I prefer to have the OS unlocked myself, as I suspect you would too because I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring... and if I wanted an OS that limited me to only a single vendor's software I'd be supporting Apple... which I don't... because that's crap.

But wait... S mode doesn't limit you to only Microsoft software, it limits you to stuff sold on the Microsoft Store... which is quite different. And again with an MDM, means all sorts of deployment benefits.

Chromebooks are cheaper, but they shouldn't be... but now we're into a very real issue Microsoft has. They can't seem to come to grips with the idea of simply letting Win10 home be "free", and pro be a minor paid upgrade. They're making all their money on M365 anyway, and using the OS as a loss leader to sell cloud services would be a means to beat Google at their own game. But they just can't seem to bring themselves to do it...

But yes, why is S mode on sale at Walmart? THAT I have no clue over...
 
@britechguy Ahh now that, is a matter of perspective and further education.

I presume that the "that" to which you make reference is knowledge about what Windows 10 S Mode is and can (and cannot) do.

I still have to say that I disagree, in that even those I know of who have full knowledge of Windows 10 S Mode can't seem to find a compelling reason to either use it or push it.

And that's the crux of the problem: Ya can't sell what people aren't buying.

I see this as analogous to any one of a number of prior situations where either:

1. A given technology is actually better for what it is intended to do, but loses out anyway (for the oldest example that some here may not even know about: BetaMax versus VHS). The reasons for this are most often complex and not all aspects are rational or logical.

2. Attempts are being made to push into markets that really, really are not in flux in any meaningful sense. (Which I've already covered).

I cannot see a pathway to success for Windows 10 S Mode in the marketplace; I just can't.
 
But yes, why is S mode on sale at Walmart? THAT I have no clue over...
Because in order to get Dell and other OEMs to preinstall SMode they have to be promised a certain amount of sales and OEMs can't sell enough to justify the assembly line demand from just education sales. M$ wants it preinstalled so as to provide a ready to go package this saving the customer deployment costs. VLs provide the same ability to lock down Windows but it takes a lot of deployment costs and manpower from the schools. So the OEMs sell them to Walmart, who is always looking for cheap products to pad out the orders that school systems can't meet. If Microsoft was the only game in town this would not be an issue, as demand would fill the needs.
 
S Mode does not exist to solve a technical problem. Education and other admins (or even families) can already limit installation of apps from the store only in any version of Windows 10, and they can do that after installing any non-store apps that are needed. Much more flexible.

S Mode exists to solve Microsoft's problem of nobody using their app store or Bing (can't change search provider in Edge when in S mode). They OEMs pay less or nothing for the OS in S mode, because Microsoft think they'll make more money from those other services. The tiny market-share of Bing search is well known, so any increase in that could affect the Microsoft share price.

So S Mode exists for the vendor's own business reasons.
 
this is multi-thousand dollar per seat software.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will put super expensive software on cheap nasty hardware and then be surprised when things don't work out. If a client had brought this thing in to me I would have immediately suggested a trade in for a business class (assuming they weren't able to just return the POS). Not much you can do now, but I wish you luck with your endeavors. She might just have to learn from her VERY expensive mistake.
 
I will be shocked, and I mean that, if it were to turn out that this software is not transferable to whatever single machine the user might own at the time.

I have never encountered a single piece of third-party application software that was, or could legally be, tied to a specific piece of hardware. There's lots out there that can be "one machine/seat only," that's typical, but when you ditch your old hardware you don't have to purchase the software again. You have a single machine license, and so long as it's no longer on the previous hardware, you are within the terms of said license.
 
I will be shocked, and I mean that, if it were to turn out that this software is not transferable to whatever single machine the user might own at the time.

I have never encountered a single piece of third-party application software that was, or could legally be, tied to a specific piece of hardware. There's lots out there that can be "one machine/seat only," that's typical, but when you ditch your old hardware you don't have to purchase the software again. You have a single machine license, and so long as it's no longer on the previous hardware, you are within the terms of said license.
This. But lots of LOB software is basically subscription-based support. I suspect that the end-user is using a lapsed copy and doesn't know how to move it to a new system. The OP sounds like he is assisting the end-user over the phone and is being limited by the end-users misguided report of the situation.
 
This. But lots of LOB software is basically subscription-based support. I suspect that the end-user is using a lapsed copy and doesn't know how to move it to a new system. The OP sounds like he is assisting the end-user over the phone and is being limited by the end-users misguided report of the situation.

Hence the reason that your earlier suggestion that the tech cut out the middleman, that end-user, and talk to the software company is the only thing I'd even consider if faced with the same situation. (And I may be conflating something said in this topic versus another, but the general principle applies).
 
Called support for the software. They were able to deactivate it for me. Nuke and pave, remove S Mode again, working now and hasn't reverted. They have an exception for the rules the second 'S Mode turned back on' comes out of someone's mouth. Apparently a LOT of people call in with the issue.

Thanks all for your attempt to help. Waiting to see if I get a better response from MS than "Backup and reinstall"
 
Waiting to see if I get a better response from MS than "Backup and reinstall"

I doubt that you will, and I have to say, that in really strange, idiosyncratic instances were inexplicable behavior that no one can reliably replicate occur, "nuke and pave then restore user data from backup," is the best and most appropriate response.

Anyone who has owned their own automobile has experienced at least one of the following things:

1. Some misbehavior that keeps recurring, until we take it to the mechanic, at which point it stops, and it won't recur for the mechanic. The best that can be done is a cursory evaluation for "something obvious," but if that's not found, there's nothing that can be done at that time.

2. The response, "They'll do that," in one form or another, usually followed by a simple fix that we want to slap ourselves for not thinking of, or a statement that, "You could fix it, but that would cost {insert insane figure here}, and leaving it that way will cause no damage."

3. The thing happening stops and no one knows what it actually was, why it occurred, or why it stopped.

Stuff like "automatic reversion to S Mode" is, to my way of thinking, almost certain to be a "Category 3" occurrence. Some confluence of events that might never recur again on that machine, and that required some insanely long series of events to trigger in the first place, making backward tracing utterly impractical, is at play. Nuke and pave is the appropriate way to solve these, as the cost in time, money, sweat, tears, cursing, lost availability, and the list goes on is far higher were one to try to diagnose a root cause, which likely wouldn't help in any practical way, anyway. This business is about getting the best possible (note, possible) solution in the best possible amount of time. That means you don't try to figure out every failure. It's not cost effective for any party involved.
 
Stuff like "automatic reversion to S Mode" is, to my way of thinking, almost certain to be a "Category 3" occurrence.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional on Microsoft's part. They're CONSTANTLY trying to shove their BS down your throat and no matter how many times you say "no," they just keep doing it. Edge browser anyone? Or how about the full screen pop-up they've been serving people who have local accounts trying to trick them into signing up for a Microsoft account? I wouldn't buy an S-Mode device for $1. Heck, even Windows 10 Home isn't a good idea anymore.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional on Microsoft's part.

Well, it would shock me. If and when Microsoft offers an "official way out" of something, I have yet to have an instance where any automatic reversion occurred.

And, no, I don't consider trivial settings changes at Feature Update time, most of which are a thing of the past at this point in time, to count.

Allowing someone out of S Mode then forcing them back is not characteristic of Microsoft. And I'm no Microsoft fanboy.
 
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