Wireless Netgear router suddenly not accepting incoming connections.. Stumped.

[Jester5510]

I have a client who I've been installing a Ubiquiti network for, and things have been fine. The Ubiquiti network is great, etc.

Now, they have a separate wireless router (Netgear) coming off of the cable modem in their office for their own personal use. It was working fine until yesterday morning. My laptop has XP, and WHEN it can find the network, it just sits at "waiting for network" forever. Their laptop has Win7. They connect, enter security key, and Windows automatically pops up saying that it can't connect. Using Windows diagnose and repair obviously does nothing, because it's an AP issue.

Summary of facts so far:

1) Personal wireless router was working fine--now it won't accept connections
2) Half of the time it doesn't even show up under wireless networks available
3) Automatically rejects incoming connections when it's found
4) Tried the common resets, etc. No avail.

He already tried another router with the same settings, which did the same thing. This leads me to believe it's something in the configuration. We tried channels 1, 6 and 11. Same results.

The guys from the cable company "helped" him with some configuration stuff yesterday, but there's no telling what they changed and everything on the router, upon first inspection, seems as it should be. He thinks they might have had him put in a static IP to the modem. Of course, he doesn't have the login/pass so I can get into the modem either... Boo.

Also, I don't think it matters, but this is the current setup with my Ubiquiti network included:

Cable Modem --> Their wireless router --> My microtik router, their printer, desktop.

I'm scratching my head on this one. Anyone ever experience an issue like this?

EDIT: One more thing! Occasionally they can connect, but it'll only last for 1-15 minutes before kicking them off again and going through the same annoying process.

 

[dweebsonduty]

Have you tried a static ip on the computer?

 

[Jester5510]

I haven't. However, something just struck me. I remember him mentioning the cable company put the modem on "bridge" mode solely.

If the router isn't set up to do DHCP, then could that be a likely cause of the intermittent connectivity?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I

Cable Modem --> Their wireless router --> My microtik router, their printer, desktop.

I'm scratching my head on this one. Anyone ever experience an issue like this?

What make/model "cable modem"? If it's truely a cable modem, it will not do DHCP. If it's a "gateway"..which is a combo modem/router in one device...yes it might.

But you have their router in between the network and the modem...so even if it was a gateway and doing DHCP, their router would block that from reaching the network..routers in gateway mode do not pass DHCP traffic.

Why is your microtik router in the mix? Now the network is double NAT'd.

How many nodes on this network?
What model Nutgear router?
Is there a switch in the mix?
If it's a large network, have you scanned the network for some rogue node...like..someone brought in their own wireless router for some reason, uplinked it via a LAN port..and it's dumping DHCP upstream on the network too? (I've seen this more than once!)

 

[Jester5510]

What make/model "cable modem"? If it's truely a cable modem, it will not do DHCP. If it's a "gateway"..which is a combo modem/router in one device...yes it might.

But you have their router in between the network and the modem...so even if it was a gateway and doing DHCP, their router would block that from reaching the network..routers in gateway mode do not pass DHCP traffic.

Why is your microtik router in the mix? Now the network is double NAT'd.

How many nodes on this network?
What model Nutgear router?
Is there a switch in the mix?
If it's a large network, have you scanned the network for some rogue node...like..someone brought in their own wireless router for some reason, uplinked it via a LAN port..and it's dumping DHCP upstream on the network too? (I've seen this more than once!)

And this kind of response is why I love Technibble!

It is a cable modem/router. Netgear as well, Model WPN824v3 through Time Warner Cable. The microtik had to be put on the Netgear temporarily after TWC decided to change some settings on the modem (bridge-only mode), so our microtik set as a DHCP-client wouldn't work. The quick fix was to go through the Netgear router, since I don't have the login information for the TWC modem (neither do the owners of the business =/ ) Of course, now I feel retarded. That means the router is using DHCP if my Ubiquiti network is working fine--which it is.

There is no switch in the mix. It's modem in bridge mode--> their router and microtik router --> then three sets of Ubiquiti radios off of the microtik (2.4 and 5 ghz at each point, 3 points).

It's a very small network, as you can see. The only access points for someone to plug into the LAN are through the Microtik (in a locked breaker box outside) and the modem/router combo in the office.

 

[Jester5510]

Bleh, sorry, the model number I gave isn't the one through TWC. That's their personal router.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm still feeling that one router should be used (I'm not fond of Netgears of that vintage like the one you said is there...but that's what's there)...and you should remove the Microtik from the mix. I've done a ton of cable business setups with those combo modem/router gateways..including some from TW, I always always use one router.

Does the Netgear have a public IP on its WAN interface? Or a private/class C?

 

[Jester5510]

I'm still feeling that one router should be used (I'm not fond of Netgears of that vintage like the one you said is there...but that's what's there)...and you should remove the Microtik from the mix. I've done a ton of cable business setups with those combo modem/router gateways..including some from TW, I always always use one router.

Does the Netgear have a public IP on its WAN interface? Or a private/class C?

We're using the Microtik for the RF network. That, its configuration options, bandwidth throttling, splash page login (hotspot), etc. It's pretty much a requirement for the wants and needs of this business (RV Park). Due to that, I can not simply remove it from the mix. They want wireless internet off of the same downstream from TWC, but unbridled by bandwidth limitations. That's why we have their crappy little Netgear wireless in there.

On the public WAN IP, I didn't check. I can find out, though.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Hmmm....
Check out some Ubiquiti products for that..see if you can talk them into streamlining things down the road.

But back to what you have to work with for now...
I'd want to see...

Modem==> Netgear Router WAN ||| Netgear Router LAN ==> Microtik Router WAN ||| Microtik Router LAN.

DHCP should be enabled on both routers.
The Netgears WAN port should pickup a public IP
Lets say its LAN side is 192.168.0.1...clients on it should get 192.168.0.xxx addresses.
The Microtiks WAN port I'm guessing is getting a 192.168.0.xxx address...fine, and its LAN side should be something different, 10.1.1.1 or 192.168.1.1 or ...anything but 192.168.0.xxx.

I've seen some of those Netgear routers i'm not so fond of not handle heavier loads very well. That WPN824v3 model....yuck...not for a larger network with heavy loads. I'd want a router at the edge with some beef to it...a real business grade router. Heck..a nice linux distro at the edge would be even better....have multiple LAN ethernet ports to get rid of the double NAT.

heading out for the evening, be back online tomorrow morn.

 

[Jester5510]

I'm back in tomorrow to see what I can do. I'll report back here if I fix it, or if I still can't figure it out. Thanks for your insight!

 

[Jester5510]

Hmmm....
Check out some Ubiquiti products for that..see if you can talk them into streamlining things down the road.

But back to what you have to work with for now...
I'd want to see...

Modem==> Netgear Router WAN ||| Netgear Router LAN ==> Microtik Router WAN ||| Microtik Router LAN.

DHCP should be enabled on both routers.
The Netgears WAN port should pickup a public IP
Lets say its LAN side is 192.168.0.1...clients on it should get 192.168.0.xxx addresses.
The Microtiks WAN port I'm guessing is getting a 192.168.0.xxx address...fine, and its LAN side should be something different, 10.1.1.1 or 192.168.1.1 or ...anything but 192.168.0.xxx.

I've seen some of those Netgear routers i'm not so fond of not handle heavier loads very well. That WPN824v3 model....yuck...not for a larger network with heavy loads. I'd want a router at the edge with some beef to it...a real business grade router. Heck..a nice linux distro at the edge would be even better....have multiple LAN ethernet ports to get rid of the double NAT.

heading out for the evening, be back online tomorrow morn.

All of the IP settings and connections are as they should be. Correct WANs/LANs and corresponding IPs for the network. I'm not having any issue connecting to the internet while hard-wired into the netgear (typing from there as I speak).

I'm solely concerned about the lack of ability to connect wirelessly to this thing. Is it possible that the router is getting too much load for its capabilities, thus causing the intermittent connection and visibility?

 

[4ycr]

A while ago I had a company that had a BT hub with 3 wireless PC's and one wired. If one of the computers put a heavy load on the wireless the other two dropped the connection and would appear offline. once the the file transfer had stopped the other got their connection back.

More recently I had a netgear drop some connections and after a month it went completely and it could not remember any of it's settings.

Are you able to replace the netgear router with one of your own to verify it's the router?

 

[bluecoast]

You said he tried another router and had the same problem. Was he using an identical router? Have you tried temporarily disabling wireless security for testing? SOHO routers that I've seen overloaded usually just suffer poor throughput, not dropped connections. The Ubiquiti router I had for testing allowed me to view the wireless spectrum, although it does not seem like a spectrum issue.

Something like wireshark(packet capture) on your laptop might help determine where the process is going wrong, not sure how much it logs when connecting to an AP.

Like Stonecat mentioned, double-NATing is not an ideal setup. With that Mikrotik, you have a ton of options. I would have it as the primary router, and have the netgear stub off it as an access point. The Mikrotik offers more enterprise class features to put it mildly.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

With that Mikrotik, you have a ton of options. I would have it as the primary router, and have the netgear stub off it as an access point. The Mikrotik offers more enterprise class features to put it mildly.

"A chain is only as strong as its weakest link!"

 

[Jester5510]

A while ago I had a company that had a BT hub with 3 wireless PC's and one wired. If one of the computers put a heavy load on the wireless the other two dropped the connection and would appear offline. once the the file transfer had stopped the other got their connection back.

More recently I had a netgear drop some connections and after a month it went completely and it could not remember any of it's settings.

Are you able to replace the netgear router with one of your own to verify it's the router?

I'm going to try to replace the netgear router with one of my own tomorrow, after an exhaustive day of trying everything under the sun. Unfortunately, it's not multiple computers putting a heavy load on the wireless, because there are no others using the wireless. Nothing can connect.

You said he tried another router and had the same problem. Was he using an identical router? Have you tried temporarily disabling wireless security for testing? SOHO routers that I've seen overloaded usually just suffer poor throughput, not dropped connections. The Ubiquiti router I had for testing allowed me to view the wireless spectrum, although it does not seem like a spectrum issue.

Something like wireshark(packet capture) on your laptop might help determine where the process is going wrong, not sure how much it logs when connecting to an AP.

Like Stonecat mentioned, double-NATing is not an ideal setup. With that Mikrotik, you have a ton of options. I would have it as the primary router, and have the netgear stub off it as an access point. The Mikrotik offers more enterprise class features to put it mildly.

I did disable the security. No change.

As far as how we have the modem and routers set up, I might consider changing it around after this is all done. But, as I said, primarily right now I just have to figure out why the wireless is being a pain in my rear. I'm hoping my router will solve the issue, then it's just a simple matter of buying another one for them.

 

[Jester5510]

Update: Issue resolved.

After everything was said and done, even though he SAID he did a factory reset on the router, I was at my wits end with the issue and decided to go ahead and do it again. He then told me that's not what he did originally.. =/ Regardless, that fixed the issue and everything is hunky dory now.

Lesson learned: Never trust that the client did what they said they did. Would have saved me a couple of hours of headache.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Update: Issue resolved.

After everything was said and done, even though he SAID he did a factory reset on the router, I was at my wits end with the issue and decided to go ahead and do it again. He then told me that's not what he did originally.. =/ Regardless, that fixed the issue and everything is hunky dory now.

Lesson learned: Never trust that the client did what they said they did. Would have saved me a couple of hours of headache.

And save the client a couple of hours of pay for you?

 

[smashedbotatos]

Just a question, but why did this person need two routers to begin with?

 

[Jester5510]

And save the client a couple of hours of pay for you?

Haha, luckily this was a negotiated deal. My advertising on their billboard for tech help. No money lost for them =)

 

[Jester5510]

Just a question, but why did this person need two routers to begin with?

I thought I had it explained in the initial few posts, but here it is in a nutshell:

Ubiquiti open-air WIFI coverage of park is controlled by the Microtik router.
TWC modem provides internet for both that Microtik and their personal, office wireless router.