Working on a problem system that seems to keep getting worse. how do you handle this type of stuff?

drnick5

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Hey Folks,

I don't work on a lot of machines these days, but my bench tech had me take a look at a problem computer. Originally came in because the client said it was infected. We put it on the bench and it wouldn't POST. I pulled the CMOS battery and let it sit for a bit, put it back in and restarted, system now boots! Performed a few restarts of the system to verify it booted reliability. Find the infections and give the client an estimate to fix.

Work gets approved, we remove the infections, perform a tune up and do the usual things we do. Everything is fine. We shut down the system, then my bench tech realized he forgot to do something. He puts it back on the bench and turns it on, won't post again. Tried resetting CMOS again, no dice. tried resetting via moving the jumper on the board. still no dice. Removed all RAM sticks and add-in cards, swapped power supply with a new one as a test, still nothing. Computer won't POST.

We explained to the customer that the board seems to have failed, I find a replacement and offer to replace it for my cost on the board with no additional labor costs. Customer agrees, i order the board.

Board arrives today, we install it, system boots, no issues. system locks up 2 minutes after. Upon rebooting, it won't post again!

At this point, the only thing I can think of is that their power supply is also faulty (possibly took out the original board, and now this new one).

How do you guys typically handle this? We performed this disinfection which is obviously a software issue, but now its clearly become a hardware problem. My thoughts are that this now also needs a new power supply. I can see my client starting to question it, even if I offer it at my cost. With the price escalating, they could decide they no longer want to fix this computer and purchase a new one instead. But this puts me in a bad spot since I've already done a decent amount of work to this computer.

How do you guys handle situations like this?

Gotta love Fridays!
 
If system boots and locks 2 minutes after installing and setting up a new mobo, why do you think it's some other hardware that's causing the issue? Could it be the new mobo's software that's causing the 'new' issue?

EDIT:
This may not help much, but I've had a new client who kept having problems on the same system. This was a few weeks ago. All hardware tested OK, but ended up re-installing the OS. Then he messed up, and instead of installing Office he installed Windows again. I've fixed the problem and a few days later Windows won't boot. I've fixed the problem again but then the printers won't work (both HP). Tried to re-install drivers and whatever, but ended having numerous OS errors. Since this was an old system (P4 I guess), and is still running XP, I suggested that it's not worth the time and money we're spending and suggested that he'd better off with a new system. I quoted a new system but unfortunately didn't hear from him again. Moral of the story is, sometimes you try your best, go out of your way, problems keep coming every single time you fix an issue. These just happen from time to time, not only in the IT field, but almost in any problem-solving environments. The good thing is, you have Technibble behind you :)
 
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What I've done in the past is strip everything out of the case. Starting with just the motherboard and CPU, known good PS and RAM I'll power it up and go from there. What is the make and model?
 
Since you have approval for the software cleaning and motherboard and you are already a bit committed, if a power supply would fix it, I would install it and eat the cost.
 
I was also wondering if anything else had been tested or if you guys just jumped right into the virus removal and tune-up. If the hard drive is failing, it can cost the computer to hang at the bios. I have seen this several times. Of course bad memory can also cause similar issues. Chances are, unless you bought a used MOBO, it is not a motherboard issue. If you did test the HDD and memory, what did you use to test it with? What tests were run? What were the results? What else have you ruled out and how?
 
Sometimes depending on the age of the unit, it may be best just to replace it with an equivalent. I hate losing money, but sometimes that's better for your sanity. I had one a couple years ago that was an aging hp unit. Total pain and things weren't cooperating. I ended up just getting a refurb dell. Ended up charging for my time and he bought an AV from me. I basically didn't make anything, but didn't really lose any money either. In the end I was happy to have it done and customer was happy to have a newer better system at a pretty darn fair price lol. I realized sometimes it just doesn't work out in our favor, but it's best to retain the customer in most cases. I've since worked for that guy two other times with other issues and he's given me a few referrals. At this point it has more than paid off to do what I did.
 
I was also wondering if anything else had been tested or if you guys just jumped right into the virus removal and tune-up. If the hard drive is failing, it can cost the computer to hang at the bios. I have seen this several times. Of course bad memory can also cause similar issues. Chances are, unless you bought a used MOBO, it is not a motherboard issue. If you did test the HDD and memory, what did you use to test it with? What tests were run? What were the results? What else have you ruled out and how?

Just because the end user said it was a virus and it had virus on it doesn't mean that was the main issue. I could scan almost any end user computer and come up with at least some grayware. It sounds like a better diagnostic procedure might have prevented this issues. Even when any computer comes in for anything i run full diagnostic. that way i am sure of the problem!
 
Sometimes you have to take one for the team and customer good will. In such situations in my prior business I made sure the client was taken care of, period. They may have walked away knowing that things went south, but they also knew I took care of them even when it hurt in the short term.
 
Screw it. You can get a pretty decent system nowadays for less than $100. Why mess with this thing anymore? I just picked up some quad core AMD HP's with 4GB of DDR3 memory and 500GB hard drives for $80 apiece. Throw him one of those, make a few hundred bucks, and take his in on trade. It's much better to spend $300 to $400 on one of these systems than one of the newer HP's that don't even come with a power supply. Let him know that you're not going to charge him for the virus removal or the motherboard in his own system, and you'll give him a discount on this new one with a trade in. Make sure and let him know that you're taking a loss here and any other customer just walking through the door would get the system for $XXX, but you'll give it to him for $XXX and waive the diagnostics and other charges on his old one. That way he's getting a new computer for $100 basically. I've done this countless times and the customer is always happy.
 
Just because the end user said it was a virus and it had virus on it doesn't mean that was the main issue. I could scan almost any end user computer and come up with at least some grayware. It sounds like a better diagnostic procedure might have prevented this issues. Even when any computer comes in for anything i run full diagnostic. that way i am sure of the problem!

I can verify it had infection, as we did in the diagnostic. (google links being redirected to different sites, homepage changed, etc) the software part of it isn't the issue here. its 100% a hardware problem. I'm curious, what sort of "full diagnostic" do you run on each computer that might pick up a failing power supply or motherboard?

To answer other questions, I tried swapping the RAM with known working sticks, as well as tried swapping the power supply with a known working one, although this was done after teh 2nd board stopped working. So when I get the RMA in, I'll install it along with a new PSU. The only thing i didn't try was another cpu, which while possible, is so damn rare (I think i've seen 2 bad CPU's in my 15+ years of doing this.). I don't have another CPU of the same socket on hand to test with.
 
Screw it. You can get a pretty decent system nowadays for less than $100. Why mess with this thing anymore? I just picked up some quad core AMD HP's with 4GB of DDR3 memory and 500GB hard drives for $80 apiece. Throw him one of those, make a few hundred bucks, and take his in on trade. It's much better to spend $300 to $400 on one of these systems than one of the newer HP's that don't even come with a power supply. Let him know that you're not going to charge him for the virus removal or the motherboard in his own system, and you'll give him a discount on this new one with a trade in. Make sure and let him know that you're taking a loss here and any other customer just walking through the door would get the system for $XXX, but you'll give it to him for $XXX and waive the diagnostics and other charges on his old one. That way he's getting a new computer for $100 basically. I've done this countless times and the customer is always happy.

I'm honestly not a fan of any HP computers, but where are you able to get them for $80 each? Are they Windows 7? I'm guessing these are refurbished?
 
I'd test the hard drive and memory and if they come back fine, try swapping out the PSU with a known good one. If any of these are faulty, eat the cost and make sure you tell the customer you've replaced them at your own cost. Your customer will be grateful for it.
 
Similarly to what markverhyden has said, there is one thing that doesn't appear to have been touched on. You may consider it a small thing and maybe 'not worth doing', but if I get a machine like that, I would have been tempted to disconnect absolutely EVERYTHING from the motherboard (HD included), and test it completely barebones. I would even go into the BIOS screen (where certain things can be monitored like temperature eg), and leave it there for a while. Also reboot with it barebones several times. Maybe wait a while, then try that sequence again. Even connect a different HD to it, and go from there. Does that make any sense?
 
I'm honestly not a fan of any HP computers, but where are you able to get them for $80 each? Are they Windows 7? I'm guessing these are refurbished?

I love how some members throw out these kinds of things without any qualifiers as if they believe that everyone seems to have access to such cheap units. I too am interested in such information; please, share the wealth!
 
Similarly to what markverhyden has said, there is one thing that doesn't appear to have been touched on. You may consider it a small thing and maybe 'not worth doing', but if I get a machine like that, I would have been tempted to disconnect absolutely EVERYTHING from the motherboard (HD included), and test it completely barebones. I would even go into the BIOS screen (where certain things can be monitored like temperature eg), and leave it there for a while. Also reboot with it barebones several times. Maybe wait a while, then try that sequence again. Even connect a different HD to it, and go from there. Does that make any sense?

I did try testing it as barebones as possible (Hd unplugged, no Add-in cards, just CPU, RAM and psu, still won't post) since it won't POST I can't get into BIOS to see anything. I'm very inclined to believe its the PSU which I'll replace when I install the new board when it arrives and just eat that cost.
 
I love how some members throw out these kinds of things without any qualifiers as if they believe that everyone seems to have access to such cheap units. I too am interested in such information; please, share the wealth!

If you can't find off lease business class desktops and laptops, you're doing it wrong. You can either secure these leads yourself (but you have to buy in pretty large bulk), go to auctions, search out a good recycling center, or if you're really desperate look on eBay. You've gotta pay for shipping, but like I said that's a last resort. A lot of people buy these in large bulk for say $30 to $40 a tower then sell them on eBay for $80 plus $30 or so for shipping. I would recommend using eBay to find someone who does this locally so you can skip the shipping charges and just pick them up directly.

I got these HP's from a thrift store believe it or not. A large business closed down and they dropped off over 1,000 units at this thrift store that were all in 100% working condition. The thrift store was asking $200 apiece but I offered to buy 500 of them if they'd go $80 and they agreed. I was lucky that I found these before they shipped them to the other stores (after all it would take a single store years to sell over 1,000 desktops). Just always have your eyes and ears open for great deals.
 
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