Would like help spec-ing out my first server quote

[thecompu-doctor]

Hi everyone, I've been working with SMB's for years now and have a few clients with various kinds of servers (SBS2008, server 2008 stnd). However, most of my clients we've retired their old SBS2003 servers as they simply no longer needed that complex of an environment.

However, I have a client that I inherited that really should have had a server for their Medical (medisoft) business application. When I took over their support they were running on a several year old optiplex XP desktop running as their server. Fast forward to today, they HAVE to finally upgrade their old Medisoft application to a modern version. In order to do this right (even though the client doesn't really want to) I need to set them up with a server to host Medisoft. I've never actually spec-ed one out for a client so I want to make sure I'm not messing this up. Below you'll see the specs from Medisoft for their requirements and a spec sheet from Dell for a new power edge running Server 2012 std (I don't think server 2012 essentials will cut it). They will NOT be using this as DC or hosting exchange. In reality, it will be hosting their medical software, quickbooks, and a small amount of data share.


One big caveat that I need to try and reasonably solve as their budget is limited. Their mac users and remote users have been using RDC to get into the XP box. It was setup with a reg-edit hack to allow multiple RDC sessions at one time for multiple users. I've never had another environment like this, so I'm not sure if Server 2012 std will allow for multiple RDC sessions at one time or not...??

Thanks ahead of time for helping impart some knowledge on me

Medisoft specs:
​

Hardware:
Intel Xeon Quad Core or better CPU (1 or 2) (these now have as many as 8 cores)
8 to 32 GB RAM (more is better)
SAS or SATA RAID Controller (add-on, not embedded)
2 ea. 250 to 500 GB Enterprise Hard Drives configured in RAID 0+1 (mirrored for OS and
applications)
2 ea. 1 TB Enterprise Hard Drives configured in RAID 0+1 (mirrored, for data)
Dual Gigabyte Network Interfaces (NIC)
(Note: Hot swappable drives make changing a failed drive easier)
Software:
Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise or Standard (purchase a volume license of Windows Server
2012 Standard and you get both)

Server i spec-ed out from Dell:
​

PowerEdge T620 PowerEdge T620, Intel® Xeon® E-26XX Processors
Chassis Configuration Chassis with up to 4, 3.5" Hard Drives, Software RAID, Tower Configuration
Processor Intel® Xeon® E5-2620 2.00GHz, 15M Cache, 7.2GT/s QPI, Turbo, 6C 95W
Additional Processor No Additional Processor
Memory DIMM Type and Speed 1600 MHz RDIMMS
Memory Configuration Type Performance Optimized
Memory Capacity 16GB RDIMM, 1600MT/s, Low Volt, Dual Rank, x4 Data Width
Operating System Windows Server® 2012R2,Standard Ed,Factory Inst,No MED,2SKT,2VM,NO CAL
OS Media Kits Windows Server® 2012R2, Standard Edition, Media Kit
OS Partitions None
Client Access Licenses None
RAID Configuration RAID 1 for S110 (2 SATA/SATA SSD HDDs)
RAID Controller S110, Software RAID (for Microsoft OS Only)
Hard Drives 500GB 7.2K RPM SATA 3Gbps 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive
Embedded Systems Management iDRAC7 Express
Network Adapter None ****** is it normal for a server to not have integrated NIC on the motherboard? They really only need one NIC.
Host Bus Adapter/Converged Network Adapter None
Additional PCIe Cards None
Power Supply Single, Hot-plug Power Supply (1+0), 495W
Power Cords NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord
Power Management BIOS Settings Power Saving Dell Active Power Controller
Rack Rails and Casters Tower Chassis, No Casters
Bezel Security Bezel
Internal Optical Drive DVD ROM, SATA, Internal
System Documentation Electronic System Documentation and OpenManage DVD Kit
Licenses None
Virtualization Software None
Virtualization Licenses and Subscriptions None
Internal SD Module None
Secondary OS None
Optional Documentation None
Enabled Virtualization None
Database Software None
GPU None
Removable Storage None
Storage Media None
Systems Management Upgrades None
Advanced System Configurations None
SERVICES
Warranty & Service 3 Year ProSupport and NBD On-site Service
Installation Services No Installation
Remote Consulting Service Deployment Consulting 1 Yr 1 Hour Remote Consulting Service
Keep Your Hard Drive None
Proactive Maintenance Maintenance Declined
Proactive Systems Management None



What do you all recommend for backup? I'm familiar with Shadow protect for SBS to either a NAS or external drives. Is this a good solution for this system?

 

[Markverhyden]

1. How many users?
2. Have they created a budget for this?

Yes, you can have modern versions of M$ server handle multiple RDP sessions. But you have to get Standard and not Essentials (SBS). And you will have to buy the proper number of CAL's.

As far as the NIC is concerned. New to me. My R710 has 4 ports on the MB. But that is a different animal. Personally I would add a two port card.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You mention their Medisoft, Quickbooks, and file sharing.
You also mention Remote Desktop Services (previously known as Terminal Server).

Should have more than 1x server for this. I don't mean physically...I mean....number of servers. Virtualizing them. Medisoft and Quickbooks on an application server, file server by itself (could host quickbooks database on that), and then a terminal server. Unmentioned...if there's a DC there or not yet.

The PE 620 is good as a physical host.
Single Server 2012 license....get a volume license for this. Don't do OEM licenses for servers...you shoot yourself in the foot for future server replacements/upgrades. OEM is tied to the physical server it was bought with.

Anyways, a single server 2012 license allows the local "host"...running just Hyper-V role, and then its license covers 2x new guests. Also allows you to import/host other servers doing a "p2v".

I'd go to 15k rpm SAS drives, pair of 300 gigers doing a RAID 1 for the Hyper-V host, and the system volume of some virtual guests. And ..without knowing how large this office is, how much data they have, volume needed...I'd look at 4x 15k rpm SAS drives...probably 450 gigs..more if needed...doing a RAID 10, for the data volumes of the guests.

Dual power supplies.
I'd say most entry to mid level servers come with at least 1x integrated NIC, plus additional options...but some models come with nothing, allowing you to pick the single/dual/quad NIC you want....based on chipset.

 

[thecompu-doctor]

Thanks guys, you've been quite helpful. To give a little more insight....

They don't have a DC and really don't want to have that kind of environment. They had one a while back, before I ever helped them and they hated it. While I'm certain it likely wasn't setup right, it also doesn't make sense for this environment. There are about 4 client computers that are owned by this therapist office, and about 15 various client computers (mix of mostly PC's but multiple macs) that are owned by the individual therapists that rent an office.

They pretty much only use their current "server" (xp box) to host a little bit of data (about 15 gigs that don't change much), host quickbooks for the front office staff (4 client workstations) and medisoft for practice billing and scheduling. They Don't do any EHR or secure notes and have no intention of doing so.

Budget:
It is basically a scramble session to try and find funding for this. I've been telling them since I inherited this client that their "server" was forced into a role it wasn't built to do. This is why RDCing into medisoft is not stable for remote users and a few other misc problems that they have. So last month the surprised me by telling me that they've purchased the new several thousand dollar upgrade to medisoft and that their sales team told them whatever they were currently running would work just fine. I put the breaks on that and worked with one of their techs to explain what they currently have and we found out that it will NOT work going forward.


markverhyden: so will server 2012 std work for multiple RDC sessions simultaneously? They likely will only have a max 10 and most of the time 5-ish at one time. You mentioned CAL's. This is an area I am fuzzy with. Can you enlighten me a little on this?


YeOldeStonecat: to tell the truth, i hadn't thought about virtualizing. I do like this idea, but wont this increase our software licensing costs by having to buy a separate license of server for each of the VM's? What is a good way to go about getting volume licensing? I thought about doing the install myself, but didn't realize the benefits. Thank you very much for the education on OEM installs.

 

[HankArnold]

Server quote

I'd suggest some points:

- I'd go for a better CPU than a Xeon. It's getting a bit long in the tooth
- Go for 32 GB. You'll either be running everything on the one server or you'll be running multiple Virtual servers. In either case, you are going to need a log of memory. Make sure you can add more later if you need it w/o having to remove existing modules.
- Sure, an add-on RAID card has advantages over an embedded one, but I wouldn't ignore a configuration if it has one. Make sure it has 2 channels. You want each RAID array to be independent.
- I'd consider 2008 R2 over 2012. Definitely avoid Essentials
- Avoid software RAID at all costs. Why do this when you have hardware RAID available???
- There's nothing wrong with an embedded NIC. Just make sure it is a dual one. I usually disable one and keep it as a backup in the event the active one has a problem.
- I would strongly recommend dual/redundant power supplies. Two of the weakest links in a server are the power supply and the hard drives.
- I also like RAID 10 for data drives. The redundancy is important. I can guarantee that you will lose at least one drive during the server's lifetime. In one case, I lost 2 drives. Being a RAID 10 saved my bacon.
- Get an extended service contract. Dell's premium services is still the best. Keep in mind that you will be able to call Dell for support after the contract expires. You'll have to pay for any hardware or service calls. Considering how critical this server is, I'd seriously consider a 4 hour on-site contract.
- Get backup software and schedule frequent backups to an external device.
- Don't buy your licenses from Dell. You should be able to do better with a 3rd party. You will need at least a server CAL and user CALS. If you need Terminal Service access by clients, then you will need TSCALS. You can get Per User of Per Device licenses. Check this out for some help.

http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/persona...re-is-an-attempt-to-answer-the-question-59402

Good luck. Let us know if you need more help.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

YeOldeStonecat: to tell the truth, i hadn't thought about virtualizing. I do like this idea, but wont this increase our software licensing costs by having to buy a separate license of server for each of the VM's? What is a good way to go about getting volume licensing? I thought about doing the install myself, but didn't realize the benefits. Thank you very much for the education on OEM installs.

When you purchase Server 2012 Standard, the licensing covers the local install on the bare metal to run your Hyper-V install, as well as 2x guest installs. So basically 3x installatoins on this machine (but not spread across 2x other bare metals).

If you get data center edition of Server 2012...you get to install unlimited new guests.

What wholesaler do you normally go through? Their Microsoft licensing desk is where you get your volume licensing....start linking your clients purchases through your business and start building your companies MS licensing sales history through Microsoft.

 

[thecompu-doctor]

Thanks guys for the continued assitance.

I'm planning on bumping the ram like you mentioned since I'll be running a couple vm's. Hank, you said you'd look at something other than a xeon, what do you recommend?

stonecat, I don't currently have a wholesale company for these kind of things as this is the first server I've had to help a client buy. Until now, when a client has needed a computer, I've either built one, or assisted them in buying one direct from Dell SMB (or other vendor as needed). I typically use amazon or newegg for most parts and components.

So i'm open to suggestions for licensing.

 

[thecompu-doctor]

Due to the potential costs, my customer is now interested in a cloud hosted server and accessing it via RDP. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know of amazon's offerings and MS's Azure, but i don't know much beyond that. Any suggestions or tips.

 

[TheITGuy]

Any updates on this?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Due to the potential costs, my customer is now interested in a cloud hosted server and accessing it via RDP. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know of amazon's offerings and MS's Azure, but i don't know much beyond that. Any suggestions or tips.

RackSpaceCloud is another one to consider. Got ours there....so far just internal use though...like our Ubiquiti cloud controller.

 

[thecompu-doctor]

Dan reminded me about green cloud and a few others that work with ACRBO members. Sent some info over to the customer on a cloud hosted option. I like the idea of this since we can keep the specs a bit lower, but still in the acceptable range. It's easy enough to bump the specs up as we need down the road.