A big one...network install that is!

[karloz]

Hi guys and girls,

I've been tasked with a large network and wifi install into a large refurbishment project. The building was once a factory, but is being converted into apartments. The building is quite a unique shape, imagine a triangle with approximately 100m long sides and 4-5 stories high. There is no current infrastructure of any sorts, as the place is being gutted and rebuilt on the inside. The quick sketch diagram I've attached doesn't show the shape of the building, but it does identify how the build phases are layed out (P1=Phase one of the build, P2=Phase two of the build etc).

Currently, Phase 1 is almost ready to be cabled. There will be a number of services running over the physical network infrastructure (communal WiFi, Nursecall in some apartments and an IP based door entry system). Each service will be in its own VLAN. There will be no hard wired Internet connections in the apartments.

As you can see from the diagram, the plan is to fire some fibre from Phase 1 to each of the other phases (the orange lines). Then, for some redundancy, additional links (either fibre, or CAT6) between the Phases. Having a complete mesh setup will be difficult, hence the reason some phases have two alternate links, and others only have one alternate link.

Now, bearing in mind we're looking at circa 70 users per Phase when all is done (so 350 users in total), do I go for 1Gb links from Phase 1 to the other Phases, or 10Gb links? I need the capacity on the links, but I don't want to go overkill where it's unnecessary. From a media point of view, the runs from P1 to the other phases will need to be fibre, due to their length and the fact that they will be buried in a duct with power cables.

We are expecting to have to install an Internet pipe of around 400-500Mb for this number of users. I'm planning on using Ubiquiti hardware wherever possible - the WiFi definitely, and probably the 48 port EdgeSwitches which have 2 x SFP and 2 x SFP+ ports on them. The AP's will be run in guest mode, so each user will only have access to the Internet from their devices, both for security and less network noise.

The left hand side of the sketch shows how a typical Phase will be laid out. So, a feed to the ground floor, then two further comms areas on the 1st and 3rd floors where all of the CAT5e comes back to from the apartments. There will be 3 cables in each apartment that require a connection to the switches (25 apartments in Phase 1).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this setup....

 

[Moltuae]

Well the choice of 1Gb or 10Gb really depends on the usage requirements and expectations. If the network will be required to carry files and data between computers, and they're expecting good transfer speeds and anything more than a moderate amount of concurrent users, then I would say you need 10Gb links. However, at the other extreme, if the purpose of the network is purely to provide internet connectivity, with the capacity to provide adequate bandwidth for all users concurrently, then 1Gb should just about do it. Personally, I'd still be recommending 10Gb links though, if only to provide better future-proofing.

 

[karloz]

Thanks Moltuae,

The bulk of the traffic will be Internet traffic by far. There will be no internal file transfers between users, purely Wireless Internet connectivity and a small amount of data from the other two services.

Future proofing was my concern really. I was thinking 10Gb fibre for the P1 to P2,3,4,5 runs and maybe aggregated CAT6 for the redundant runs between the phases.

Very exciting this project, but about 5X the size of the last project I did for this development company. As far as the wireless network goes, I expect it to be huge with over 60 AP's - far bigger than any WiFi install I've done to date.

 

[Nerm]

Before deciding on uplink capacity between the backbone I would first get the redundancy requirements for the project set in stone. From that point you can worry about capacity. For example if redundancy is of utmost importance then I would worry more about having multiple uplink paths than the capacity of those paths. Of course capacity is important but in my experience designing networks I have found that if capacity is important then redundancy is equally if not more important. With technologies like Etherchannel and dynamic routing no reason you can't have both capacity and redundancy.

I do suggest doing the backbone in fiber/sfp that way even if you do 1gb links now you can upgrade to 10gb modules when/if needed in the future rather easily.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'd plan on future proofing by planning on 10 gig home runs from each floor to the central switch/router distro. Never know what converged media they'll want in 5 years or so. Ensure there is nice conduit layed you can blow the fiber through now with a bunch of strings to quickly replace one down the road if needed, or pull more through. Simple enough setup, plan for ease of service/repair, and growth. Have nice fat PVC conduit in place and anything down the road will be easy. Certainly don't need 10 gig backbones now for internet, but getting the right fiber in place now will allow upgrading switches down the road.

 

[karloz]

Thanks guys,

The one thing I'm struggling with is the fibre terminations at Phase 1, for all of the other Phases. Especially if we go 10GB. The 48 port EdgeSwitches only have 2 x SFP+ ports, but I will have potentially 5 or 6 fibres coming back to this point on the ground floor wanting to be 10GB. Really struggling to find a device with more SFP+ ports. Don't really want to stick more EdgeSwitches in purely to use the SFP+'s and only a couple of other ports - seems a big waste.

Any ideas what the norm is in this situation? I've never brought this many fibres back to one location before, especially at 10gig.

 

[Nerm]

I personally don't think EdgeSwitches are a good fit for this use case. They are fine for access layer but distribution and core layers should really be done with devices intended for that work. For these types of designs I usually go with Cisco or HP as both have significant 10GB SFP+ options. Another thing to look at is if doing 10GB is even in the clients budget.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Thanks guys,

The one thing I'm struggling with is the fibre terminations at Phase 1, for all of the other Phases. Especially if we go 10GB. The 48 port EdgeSwitches only have 2 x SFP+ ports, but I will have potentially 5 or 6 fibres coming back to this point on the ground floor wanting to be 10GB. Really struggling to find a device with more SFP+ ports. Don't really want to stick more EdgeSwitches in purely to use the SFP+'s and only a couple of other ports - seems a big waste.

Any ideas what the norm is in this situation? I've never brought this many fibres back to one location before, especially at 10gig.

For that, you want a "TOR" switch...Top Of Rack. They'll have more SFP port options....like 8 of 'em.

 

[karloz]

I personally don't think EdgeSwitches are a good fit for this use case. They are fine for access layer but distribution and core layers should really be done with devices intended for that work. For these types of designs I usually go with Cisco or HP as both have significant 10GB SFP+ options. Another thing to look at is if doing 10GB is even in the clients budget.

You know... you're right! No point skimping on the core devices if going 10GB.

For that, you want a "TOR" switch...Top Of Rack. They'll have more SFP port options....like 8 of 'em.

Stonecat - you diamond! I knew there must be devices available to do this, just didn't know what the hell they were called.

After a long hard look at this, I think the best option for now is this....

Run fibre as planned from P1 to all other Phases, but make sure it's OM3 stuff capable of some decent distance on 10GB, BUT...for now, run 1GB over these links leaving the option to upgrade as necessary later on. As for the links between floors in the same phase, I may as well run fibre and utilise the 2 x 10GB ports on the switches. They're not going a great distance up, so I can probably get hold of some pre-terminated patch cables for this and run them up inside some nice conduit as Stonecat mentioned earlier in this thread.

The guy who handed me this project is a legend! Lets just say he loves to keep busy - I now also been tasked with an Internet and WiFi install in his home....thing is, it's like over 50 rooms with some internal walls 1M thick...oh and no chance of getting Internet into the place via Phone line/Cable - not a chance in hell due to the location. So, another new technology coming my way - Satellite broadband. I'll leave that for another thread when I get started on it though...