Ah, how Windows has fallen

Kirby

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This is a random rant, not anything important. If your time is precious, you should probably move on to something more important.

As of today I have officially sold more Windows XP machines than Windows 10 machines so far this week. That is sad. I am having more and more customers come in wanting an old Windows XP machine to run old software on, swearing they're not going to connect it to the Internet, usually just to run old games. Each and every one of them expresses a deep loathing for Windows 10, which I wholeheartedly share. It seems each update takes more control away from the person who actually paid for the computer and gives more control to Microsoft.

I certainly hope some company pounces on this and makes a real alternative to Windows, because Linux will never be that. Don't get me wrong, Linux is an awesome operating system. But it is not, nor will it every be "ready for prime-time", like the Linux nuts have been claiming for over a decade, maybe two. Why? Because command line. Everything in Linux, and I mean EVERY DAMNED THING, is command line. Even if you use your happy little GUI interface to extract a file all it does is run a hundred mile long command line utility for you so you don't see it. Yes, it's powerful...IF you're a geek. Otherwise it's useless-complicated, counter-intuitive and just plain unusable. Telling the end user they should be using Linux is like telling a driver he should be driving a tank so that he's safer in an accident. Yes, it is a sound argument. It's just not a realistic argument. Nor is it realistic to think that Linux will EVER be a real contender as an OS for the common man so long as it's designed by geeks, for geeks, who, let's face it, are often smug about their skills and apathetic to the plight of those who don't share them.

The industry should have seen this coming. Microsoft has ALWAYS wrested control away from the user. I remember in the Windows 98 days some registry setting to shut off the Recycle Bin or Recent Files or something. Then there was an update where Microsoft checked for that registry setting and changed it back if you had made it because that is not how Microsoft wanted your computer to run. And I remember Vista. When a user said, "I don't like Windows Vista" the Microsoft response was, "Yes you do! It's better!" Until it hit them in the pocketbook, that is. And now we have to pay an excessive amount for an OS AND put up with ads within that OS AND allow Microsoft do decide what happens and when, what information they will take (not that you will give, but that they will take) and, what the hell, Microsoft isn't paying the bill, so if you're on a metered Internet service it's just your problem if you get huge bills because whether you want that ridiculously-sized update or not, Microsoft is shoving it up your a$$. I know that no computer tech has ever said this before, but I hate Microsoft. End rant.
 
I will have to disagree with your opinion about Linux. I have several senior citizen clients who I have migrated to Linux, including my 78 year old mother. I use TeamViewer for remote support on the rare occasion they need my help or to do system updates 2 or 3 times per year.
 
Now that I have a little more time, a longer response is in order. Yes, you can hand-hold an individual, even one of advanced age, to teach them how to do specific things in Linux. Yes, everyone can learn it. But the argument always comes down to individuals whose specific needs are met. In my experience most older users want to play solitaire and check Facebook and email and not much else. Yes, mom can learn to check her email and Facebook on Linux pretty easily.

Now ramp that up. You use TeamViewer for remote support...and to do system updates 2 or 3 times a year. I have about 2,000 customers. By your estimation that's 4,000 to 6,000 remote sessions per year to do system updates. Even if it was once a year per customer that's 5 1/2 remote sessions PER DAY, every day of the year with no breaks.

Yes, an individual can be taught how to launch Solitaire. No, I do not have time to do 5 remote requests every single day of the year to do updates for them. And how many times has your mom gone out and gotten a new video card to support the new game she just bought at Wal-Mart so she can shoot the hell out of some aliens? No, "mom" doesn't do that, but "customers" do, and they do it often and that's a support call.

So yeah, Linux is good for mom. That's great. But it's still crap for "people in general" unless the restrictions on human cloning are lifted so I can make 10 or so more of myself.
 
I'll chime in on a couple things.

Different clients have different needs; so obviously Linux isn't for you. It's also not for a lot of people, which is why I also say it's not prime time.

Now Windows 10, I personally love. But I've dealt with a good list of issues from it with my clients, so I'm still staying back with Windows 7. This has less to do with Windows and more to do with client software requirements. In a smaller industry they just can't update their software for every windows release and stay in business. Also while I know that Windows has targeted ads, I personally never see them. There are a lot of things that Windows 10 did right.

Have you considered Mac? I have one business I support that is a all Mac environment and EASY is best way I describe it. Took a little to get up to speed, but it's like a 1/10th of the service calls compared to Windows clients.
 
Your original post suggested a company create a new O/S, "I certainly hope some company pounces on this and makes a real alternative to Windows". I highly doubt that will happen and even if it did, you would be in the same boat moving a client to a different operating system as you would be with Linux or MacOS. I even suggest MacOS to clients if they want to spend the extra $$$.

Yes, I agree Linux is not for everyone. Most average PC users can be taught to use it. I do not have the client numbers as you so supporting Linux for me works and generates income, not as much as Windows. Linux requires less support after the initial learning curve.
 
My suspicion is that Google will make a run on Microsoft in the coming years. I'm actually surprised they haven't already done it. They've got the mobile/tablet market pretty well cornered. I suspect they may soon launch a full-fledged "Android Desktop" OS. People are already comfortable with the OS, most anything Linux can be made to work in it since it is Linux based, and they could totally integrate things like Google docs into it.

That'd probably be the death stroke to Microsoft's reign.

So, I do suspect Linux will eventually win in that sense.

Perhaps it'd look something like this:
 
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I doubt you will see anyone be building a non-linux alternative to Windows anytime this decade or two. Even if they did, you would have to get people to use it before any real company would spend the time to make their programs compatible and they wouldn't be compatible with people's old windows games or software so you would still have angry people.

Maybe data medics is right and Google will come out with something user friendly to compete but until then MacOs is your only other real option for now.
 
My suspicion is that Google will make a run on Microsoft in the coming years. I'm actually surprised they haven't already done it. They've got the mobile/tablet market pretty well cornered. I suspect they may soon launch a full-fledged "Android Desktop" OS. People are already comfortable with the OS, most anything Linux can be made to work in it since it is Linux based, and they could totally integrate things like Google docs into it.

That'd probably be the death stroke to Microsoft's reign.

So, I do suspect Linux will eventually win in that sense.

Perhaps it'd look something like this:

The problem is getting OEM's to agree to make computers with the new OS. Notice how all Chromebooks are cheap? The OEM's agreed to risk making Chromebooks originally because they could pocket more profits because they didn't have to pay for Windows licensing on their low end models. The OEM's are afraid (and rightly so), that no one would pay a decent chunk of change for a high end computer with a neutered OS. Chrominium is for people that just browse the web and nothing else. Even if Google made AndroidOS, who would want it? I can tell you who WOULDN'T want it. People that have a decent chunk of change to spend on a computer.

The margins in the consumer grade PC market are razor thin at less than 2%. OEM's can't risk making high end computers they can't sell because they have a weird OS that no one wants. Google could make their own computers, but just like OEM's, they don't want the 2% margin and a risk that the products won't sell, so they make a "premium" $1,000 computer that no one wants. I mean, really. Who the heck wants a $1,000 Chromebook?

Basically it comes down to this. If you have $500+ to spend on a new computer, why would you choose a computer without Windows or Mac OS? This is why Microsoft's new Surface laptop has Windows 10 S (Windows RT 2.0), but comes with a $50 upgrade option to Windows 10 Pro. Because very few people are going to want to spend $1,000+ on a laptop that can't run Windows programs.
 
To begin with very little in Linux needs CLI for basic desktop usage, as typical consumers would use it. Yes, it is different than Windoze and so is Apple. People will earn.

Linux easily runs automatic updates and you can set it up with the same type of options as in the other OS's. There are many Linux options to favorite M$ apps. You can also run many M$ apps directly using WINE. At the moment there are almost 24,591 in the database. The great things is older apps have been worked on for so long they are very stable. Adding software packages can be a little complicated than the other OS's. Personally I prefer rpm based distro's for this reason.

On the Linux ready for Prime Time thing. I've been hearing this for more than 20 years. In the B2B market it's everywhere. Especially in embedded devices. The reason why it has not made any kind of dent in the consumer market is no one owns it, so no one to call. Yes, OEM's have, and continue to, sell machines with Linux as an option. Personally I've not bought one that way so I have no experience with their support on this option.
 
I'll chime in on a couple things.
Now Windows 10, I personally love. But I've dealt with a good list of issues from it with my clients, so I'm still staying back with Windows 7.
My major issue with it is repairability in that there is none. I have never been a "wipe and reinstall" kind of guy. I know a lot of techs, especially in IT departments, go straight there because it's the simplest solution, but I've been doing this professionally for 16 years, not just because I'm good at it, but because I thoroughly enjoy fixing computers. I do not enjoy "wiping" computers. There's no challenge. If Windows 10 doesn't boot either Microsoft will repair it for you or you'll be wiping it. There is almost zero middle ground there. And we all know how good Microsoft is with their automatic diagnostics and fixes. They're not. Hell, half the time when you try to do the built-in wipe even that gives you an error. The other half the time you get an error, but Windows doesn't actually tell you what the error was. I hate it because working on it is a task for the brain-dead. Wipe it. That is pretty much all.

Have you considered Mac? I have one business I support that is a all Mac environment and EASY is best way I describe it. Took a little to get up to speed, but it's like a 1/10th of the service calls compared to Windows clients.
<Expletive> Mac. Mac is for fanboys. Once upon a time there was an argument to be made to spend way too much money on a Mac if you were doing specific things professionally, but now they even use the same hardware as PCs. Apple's is the most profitable corporation in the world because they convince people to spend way, way more on something than it is worth for the nifty little logo and a promise that you're more "l33t3" than Windows users. And I mentioned I have about 2,000 customers, meaning that I can't sell at least 10 Macs a month, meaning Apple tells me to go to hell if I want to sell Macs. That's what they did to my old boss from before I opened my own place. 10 a month? No? Not interested.

It may not be obvious from my response, but I am not an Apple fan. They run great, sure, but they cost too much and, let me be blunt, Mac people tend to either be intolerably smug or make you feel like they're trying to get you to join a cult when they're telling you about Mac.

And let's not forget, Apple has been around a lot longer than Microsoft. If they had a winning hand Microsoft wouldn't have "won". I put that in quotes because it is Apple which is the most profitable corporation in the world

My suspicion is that Google will make a run on Microsoft in the coming years.
...
So, I do suspect Linux will eventually win in that sense.
Touche. Android is, indeed, Linux and is very much "ready for prime-time". And Google has already been testing those waters for years with the Chromebook. You win this round.

On the Linux ready for Prime Time thing. I've been hearing this for more than 20 years.
Exactly the point. 20 years of "It's good to go for everyone and it's better!" That absolutely wasn't true when I got my first copy of Linux, RedHat 5.0, back in the '90s. I'm pretty sure I was hearing it then. "It's ready!" I didn't know then what I know now, but I was always a computer-loving techie. And it still took me over a month to figure out how to change which icons were on my desktop when I got whatever the desktop environment of the day was back then running. You can only say, "It's good!" for so long before we just start to say, "It will never be good." Honestly, I wish it were. But unless something has changed since the last time I checked (admittedly, it has been a while), Linux STILL runs on top of an old text-based kernel like Windows 3.1 used to back in the day.

To be fair, there's no money in Linux, so it's unlikely to ever be a polished work like Windows or Mac OS. But I did realize as I read the responses, Apple does have the perfect hand to take over the market. They have a great, modern OS just begging to replace Windows. But that won't happen as long as it's more profitable to sell overpriced wares to elitists.
 
Just to add a little rant at MS. Remember XP SP2 or the like, when then decided that a 32bit OS can't handle more than 3.5Gb of RAM?
Or the whole thing about the end of support for XP, when companies have to pay big $ for extended support... when they actually supported XP 'Point Of Sale' for free until 2019?
Pitiful...
 
The 4GB limitation of a 32 bit system isn't something microsoft decided, it comes down to the number of possible addresses that are valid within a 32 bit system. You can use physical address extension to go beyond that, use more than 4GB in a 32 bit system, but it's not entirely the same thing. Your still limited to accessing <4GB of memory at any one time... after that the system then needs to "swap things around" to be less than technical and give access to something you may want from another chunk of ram that is currently not "in view".

I wont jump in too far on the XP vs 10 thing, except to say the only release of windows I really ever despised were Windows 2000, and Vista pre SP1. My favorites were XP and 7. For customers who run old equipment or old LOB software, keeping windows XP around is going to be necessary for as long as possible. I think that time is rapidly coming to an end.

What hardware are you selling that has these windows XP setups? Curious if your using some decently new OEM boxes, patching up 10+ year old ones, or something else?
 
And let's not forget, Apple has been around a lot longer than Microsoft. If they had a winning hand Microsoft wouldn't have "won". I put that in quotes because it is Apple which is the most profitable corporation in the world


Touche. Android is, indeed, Linux and is very much "ready for prime-time". And Google has already been testing those waters for years with the Chromebook. You win this round.


Exactly the point. 20 years of "It's good to go for everyone and it's better!" That absolutely wasn't true when I got my first copy of Linux, RedHat 5.0, back in the '90s. I'm pretty sure I was hearing it then. "It's ready!" I didn't know then what I know now, but I was always a computer-loving techie. And it still took me over a month to figure out how to change which icons were on my desktop when I got whatever the desktop environment of the day was back then running. You can only say, "It's good!" for so long before we just start to say, "It will never be good." Honestly, I wish it were. But unless something has changed since the last time I checked (admittedly, it has been a while), Linux STILL runs on top of an old text-based kernel like Windows 3.1 used to back in the day.

To be fair, there's no money in Linux, so it's unlikely to ever be a polished work like Windows or Mac OS. But I did realize as I read the responses, Apple does have the perfect hand to take over the market. They have a great, modern OS just begging to replace Windows. But that won't happen as long as it's more profitable to sell overpriced wares to elitists.

Apple has been around just as long as M$. And comparing them is like comparing Apples to Oranges, well maybe Lemons. Pun intended. Until recently M$ was not a manufacturer of hardware, just pure software. On the other hand Apple has always been a manufacturer of hardware with the software as part of the package. By license and technology their software only runs on their hardware, more or less. So it's tough to compare them in that manner. They are both involved in information communication, etc. So it's more appropriate to compare Apple, which does it all, to Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Dell, HP, etc, etc. as the other group. As you noted Android is *nix based, just like OS X. And actually making a third group of Google, Samsung and Co. is more appropriate since their OS platform is *nix based.

Another observation about basic OS operations. In spite of what M$ says their GUI still runs on top of a core that has CLI as an interface, just like linux. Sure, you can't make a headless W10 box. But, since Server 2008, they have had headless server setup as an option during setup. That's what Powershell is all about. It can be used to manage W10 just like the server versions. Just like M$ server one can choose to install linux as headless, meaning CLI only.

But this is all moot as far as I'm concerned. Smart devices surpassed traditional workstations in terms of usage years ago. Those devices do have a true GUI interfaced OS.
 
The biggest problem I think is just how far integrated Microsoft's OS is into a lot of big business / government and so on.... it would take so much money to shift off of it, that I don't think it's very likely to happen.

Microsoft has held the lions share of the market for a really long time, and that is going to make it extremely hard to phase their OS out as a serious choice for mainstream usages. They are very deeply rooted.
 
I loved Windows 2000, it had the best Pinball game!

Anyways, I have sold quite a few HP T5145's upgraded with 4GB DOM's and Windows XP for clients that need Legacy LOB. These units run 500Mhz and have Serial and Parallel ports, which is rare these days. (Well for mainstream)

I have 5 Dell Wyse 1Ghz units at the shop waiting for 4GB DOM upgrades. Those units will be running XP as well. They are also, at 1Ghz, good for retro games.

I also have a few Dell Wyse Rx0Lon the way as they feature Dual Serial ports. I find these legacy compatible machines (and small form factor to boot) do not to bad.

The reason is, many people have spent thousands of dollars on expensive software that still works that was top of the line LOB back in the day. Fast forward, many of these companies are charging thousands more to upgrade clients, so many are saying no, and looking at alternatives like I offer. I sell my T5145 for $100. One guy bought 3, planning long term.

So there is a market still for business, and for elderly folks who simply do not want to change OS, or who have an old card game that won't run on newer 64 bit platforms because the original game was 16 bit.
 
I loved Windows 2000, it had the best Pinball game!

Anyways, I have sold quite a few HP T5145's upgraded with 4GB DOM's and Windows XP for clients that need Legacy LOB. These units run 500Mhz and have Serial and Parallel ports, which is rare these days. (Well for mainstream)

I have 5 Dell Wyse 1Ghz units at the shop waiting for 4GB DOM upgrades. Those units will be running XP as well. They are also, at 1Ghz, good for retro games.

Where are you getting the XP licenses?
 
The 4GB limitation of a 32 bit system isn't something microsoft decided, it comes down to the number of possible addresses that are valid within a 32 bit system. You can use physical address extension to go beyond that, use more than 4GB in a 32 bit system, but it's not entirely the same thing.

Yes, I was talking about PAE. I'm pretty sure the PAE thing was disabled with SP2... for marketing reasons :(
Btw, I've seen a win XP 32 with 8Gb of RAM running real fine ;-)
 
These licenses were old stock that sadly never saw the light of day.

I remember when 7 came out and our company ordered some 7 licenses and we're given Vista by mistake. I was told I could help myself. I only took one. Vista, ya know.
 
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