Avast to buy AVG in $1.3B antivirus acquisition

[MikeLierman]

I used to install AVG free on customer's computers back in the day. We're talking about 10 years ago... Stopped installing it about 4 years ago when they started the obnoxious advertising on the free versions. AVG toolbars, and AVG tuneup garbage that pops up.

I'm actually glad. AVG has incredible detection rate, but the advertising has gone too far. This will give Avast a chance to simplify their product, merge some of the best security researchers onto their team, and revamp their existing software into a completely new product. Joining forces I see as a positive step forward in today's growing malware infested world.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Avast is almost as bad with nags as AVG. Even the paid versions of AVG nag you now.

 

[GTP]

How many of you have read the EULA's for AVG (paid or free) or Avast!? (or other "free" and paid Av's for that matter!)
Disturbing and scary, to say the least! The few people that I know that do bother to read them often gasp - "They don't do that! Do they?"
I haven't (personally) fully read their respective EULA's (apart from a cursory scan) for a while now, as I stopped using these products many years ago, so I don't know whether they have changed their policies.
Might make it a point to re-read them!
In the last 12 -15 years I have seen the growth in Malware infections (and the decline in viruses) and witnessed the results of products from many companies that purported to be the "best Antivirus!"
I have now, or had in the past, customers who swear/swore by Comodo (ugh!) or IOBit products!
I had one customer who, for two years, thought that she had an Antivirus when in fact she had "FakeAV!"
I can tell you now - IMHO - that both AVG and Avast! never were, nor will ever be, "a good AV solution." Both these products are incomparable "false positive" generators! Just because you remove anything that even looks suspicious does not make you a "good AV!"
A large part of my business's income is the removal, clean-up, mitigation and public education of the effects of "Malware." (and Cybersecurity in general)
I have learned from years of experience that a "good Antivirus" is more than just a cheap price tag, "light footprint," flashy interface, or endless configuration screens of options that confuse and totally befuddle and leave even experienced users scratching their heads wondering why this particular option is not on by default, or why that option is buried so deep that no one can find it! Or endless annoying popups in the GUI, asking questions that a lot of end users either don't understand, or simply ignore, or even worse, just switch off!
Digital Lockers, Password Managers etc, etc that they tack on as "extras" just add complexity into an already bloated program that often conflict with other installed software, or contains so many coding errors that they are quickly and easily exploited! See AVG, Norton and Kaspersky's recent woe's!
The "revues" that you read in the glossy mags are so biased that they are not to be believed either! Their so called "real world tests" are not so real world as they are testing them in a lab, usually with a sample of 100 viruses/malware! What about the other millions of malware that currently clog up the Internet!
https://www.av-test.org/en/statistics/malware/
http://www.kaspersky.com/about/news/virus/2013/number-of-the-year
Even "Norton," often advertised as the worlds best, fails miserably in my IMHO! Yes, Norton did do a complete re-write of their product several years ago, but its still crap! Just because you have 40% of the market, doesn't mean your product is good! It means you have a slick marketing department that had the foresight to approach computer companies that were willing to "bundle" your product with theirs!
Its also interesting to note that most security researchers don't use Antivirus/Antimalware products at all, preferring to mitigate threats by other means.
ALL Antivirus/Antimalware programs fail at something, but there are some that are worth the money.
And yes, that's right, they are NOT free!

 

[jbartlett323]

How many of you have read the EULA's for AVG (paid or free) or Avast!? (or other "free" and paid Av's for that matter!)
Disturbing and scary, to say the least! The few people that I know that do bother to read them often gasp - "They don't do that! Do they?"
I haven't (personally) fully read their respective EULA's (apart from a cursory scan) for a while now, as I stopped using these products many years ago, so I don't know whether they have changed their policies.
Might make it a point to re-read them!
In the last 12 -15 years I have seen the growth in Malware infections (and the decline in viruses) and witnessed the results of products from many companies that purported to be the "best Antivirus!"
I have now, or had in the past, customers who swear/swore by Comodo (ugh!) or IOBit products!
I had one customer who, for two years, thought that she had an Antivirus when in fact she had "FakeAV!"
I can tell you now - IMHO - that both AVG and Avast! never were, nor will ever be, "a good AV solution." Both these products are incomparable "false positive" generators! Just because you remove anything that even looks suspicious does not make you a "good AV!"
A large part of my business's income is the removal, clean-up, mitigation and public education of the effects of "Malware." (and Cybersecurity in general)
I have learned from years of experience that a "good Antivirus" is more than just a cheap price tag, "light footprint," flashy interface, or endless configuration screens of options that confuse and totally befuddle and leave even experienced users scratching their heads wondering why this particular option is not on by default, or why that option is buried so deep that no one can find it! Or endless annoying popups in the GUI, asking questions that a lot of end users either don't understand, or simply ignore, or even worse, just switch off!
Digital Lockers, Password Managers etc, etc that they tack on as "extras" just add complexity into an already bloated program that often conflict with other installed software, or contains so many coding errors that they are quickly and easily exploited! See AVG, Norton and Kaspersky's recent woe's!
The "revues" that you read in the glossy mags are so biased that they are not to be believed either! Their so called "real world tests" are not so real world as they are testing them in a lab, usually with a sample of 100 viruses/malware! What about the other millions of malware that currently clog up the Internet!
https://www.av-test.org/en/statistics/malware/
http://www.kaspersky.com/about/news/virus/2013/number-of-the-year
Even "Norton," often advertised as the worlds best, fails miserably in my IMHO! Yes, Norton did do a complete re-write of their product several years ago, but its still crap! Just because you have 40% of the market, doesn't mean your product is good! It means you have a slick marketing department that had the foresight to approach computer companies that were willing to "bundle" your product with theirs!
Its also interesting to note that most security researchers don't use Antivirus/Antimalware products at all, preferring to mitigate threats by other means.
ALL Antivirus/Antimalware programs fail at something, but there are some that are worth the money.
And yes, that's right, they are NOT free!

Haven't read AVG's for a long time, but literally just read Avast's. Here they are, if your interested:
https://www.avast.com/en-us/eula

Its EULA is absolutely no more egregious than any other antivirus at any price. None. So whats your point? Yeah, I can imagine AVG's is bad, but its fairly general consensus that AVG is a sub-par product. And have you read Windows EULA lately? If you did, I bet you would never, ever use it for anything...

Yes, all the extra's are just bloat, that's why good company's offer Anti-Virus only options, like Avast does. All of the paid products bundle as much if not more junkware, and are often heavier on resource usage in their base product. I don't see the point in having "The BEST Security" if you machine is unusable because of it.

True, Free products aren't free, its paid for by advertising, and Avast's is small and *fairly* unobtrusive. Oh, and you can turn it off.

Most of those buried options you are referring too, are buried for a reason, so people that don't know can't find them. I mean, have you ever looked at Eset's config panel? The Basic settings are easy, but anything more and you have to go to Advanced Config. If you don't do your research, you can really screw your AV in there. So its hidden from the EU so they don't break it, but accessible to us that know how, and in many cases its the only way to set certain features. And those feature that are off by default? Yeah that's on purpose too (Avast doesn't do scheduled scans by default, because the way it works, it shouldn't need to unless an infection is detected).

I have used Avast for years, have installed it for hundreds, and have nearly Zero issues with it, config, false positive, or actual infection. I have used many other products in that time also, very few hold a candle to Avast's detection, speed, resource management, update frequency, or user interaction. Personally, I feel it is absolutely worth every penny they ask for it, and many users have upgraded from free to Pro. Full Disclosure: I used to install the free version for customers regularly. No longer, but I do tell them about it.

So what do you use then? Not using anything works fine for some techs, and security researchers, but its the equivelent of "pulling out" for the end user. Yeah your fine *most* of the time, but it only takes once for something to get through. But based on this, you have a very definite opinion on products, so lets hear it...

 

[GTP]

Haven't read AVG's for a long time, but literally just read Avast's. Here they are, if your interested:
https://www.avast.com/en-us/eula

Its EULA is absolutely no more egregious than any other antivirus at any price. None. So whats your point? Yeah, I can imagine AVG's is bad, but its fairly general consensus that AVG is a sub-par product. And have you read Windows EULA lately? If you did, I bet you would never, ever use it for anything...

Yes, all the extra's are just bloat, that's why good company's offer Anti-Virus only options, like Avast does. All of the paid products bundle as much if not more junkware, and are often heavier on resource usage in their base product. I don't see the point in having "The BEST Security" if you machine is unusable because of it.

True, Free products aren't free, its paid for by advertising, and Avast's is small and *fairly* unobtrusive. Oh, and you can turn it off.

Most of those buried options you are referring too, are buried for a reason, so people that don't know can't find them. I mean, have you ever looked at Eset's config panel? The Basic settings are easy, but anything more and you have to go to Advanced Config. If you don't do your research, you can really screw your AV in there. So its hidden from the EU so they don't break it, but accessible to us that know how, and in many cases its the only way to set certain features. And those feature that are off by default? Yeah that's on purpose too (Avast doesn't do scheduled scans by default, because the way it works, it shouldn't need to unless an infection is detected).

I have used Avast for years, have installed it for hundreds, and have nearly Zero issues with it, config, false positive, or actual infection. I have used many other products in that time also, very few hold a candle to Avast's detection, speed, resource management, update frequency, or user interaction. Personally, I feel it is absolutely worth every penny they ask for it, and many users have upgraded from free to Pro. Full Disclosure: I used to install the free version for customers regularly. No longer, but I do tell them about it.

So what do you use then? Not using anything works fine for some techs, and security researchers, but its the equivelent of "pulling out" for the end user. Yeah your fine *most* of the time, but it only takes once for something to get through. But based on this, you have a very definite opinion on products, so lets hear it...

Ok, re Windows EULA,
Yes I have read [them], and I use Linux personally. I do have some Windows machines that are fairly well locked down, but I don't use them for "productive" work either. I am a keen gamer so I do have a Windows computer for that.
Re "buried options."
The whole point of the program is for the "end user" to use it. If the buried options are "hidden from the EU so they don't break it" then what's the point of having them? Companies do like to "Show Boat" though!
Re problems with Avast!.. "have installed it for hundreds, and have nearly Zero issues with it, config, false positive, or actual infection"..
Conversely, I have (and had) many many customers over the years that DID have problems with Avast! (and plenty of other AV's) I have witnessed the poor detection, "false positives" and "config" issues on a regular basis! I did mention that "education" plays a big part as well. Getting people away from "Dancing Pig Syndrome" is harder than you imagine!
Re. "So what do you use then?"
As I previously stated, personally, I use Linux. The Windows machines are all behind a UTM appliance, all with "limited user" accounts, password protected, "custom" hosts files, no IE, no Google and a big application of common sense!
My "go to" Security Suite for almost 20 years was Norman Security Suite. Since Norman were acquired by AVG last year I have been slowly moving my customers over to Emsisoft Antimalware (managed via Kabuto) as their subs fall due, or for those that don't want the "managed" Antimalware, I suggest Emsisoft Internet Security, although my customers are free to use whatever they choose! I have, on request, installed Norton, Trend Micro, ESET, SecuraLive and many others at various times. (Yes, I have even installed Avast! and AVG as well!)
Of the many hundreds of installs (of Norman) I have done in the last 20 years, very, very few of those customers had a major infection. Those that did have problems were typically downloading hacked or cracked software, pirated movies and music from dodgy sites, or generally ignoring any and all warnings by having a blasé attitude to computer security!
Full disclosure? I actually have a copy of AVG Mobile on my phone! The company I was getting Norman from gave me some "complimentary" licenses for ALL platforms when they changed to AVG, but the Mobile was the only one I used!
BTW, many many Av's use BitDefender as their scanning engine, as does/did Norman, others use Ikarus, or Avira.
It appears that AVG and Avast! use there own.


With all due respect and just out of curiosity, do you have a vested interest in Avast!?

 

[jbartlett323]

Ok, re Windows EULA,
Yes I have read [them], and I use Linux personally. I do have some Windows machines that are fairly well locked down, but I don't use them for "productive" work either. I am a keen gamer so I do have a Windows computer for that.
Re "buried options."
The whole point of the program is for the "end user" to use it. If the buried options are "hidden from the EU so they don't break it" then what's the point of having them? Companies do like to "Show Boat" though!
Re problems with Avast!.. "have installed it for hundreds, and have nearly Zero issues with it, config, false positive, or actual infection"..
Conversely, I have (and had) many many customers over the years that DID have problems with Avast! (and plenty of other AV's) I have witnessed the poor detection, "false positives" and "config" issues on a regular basis! I did mention that "education" plays a big part as well. Getting people away from "Dancing Pig Syndrome" is harder than you imagine!
Re. "So what do you use then?"
As I previously stated, personally, I use Linux. The Windows machines are all behind a UTM appliance, all with "limited user" accounts, password protected, "custom" hosts files, no IE, no Google and a big application of common sense!
My "go to" Security Suite for almost 20 years was Norman Security Suite. Since Norman were acquired by AVG last year I have been slowly moving my customers over to Emsisoft Antimalware (managed via Kabuto) as their subs fall due, or for those that don't want the "managed" Antimalware, I suggest Emsisoft Internet Security, although my customers are free to use whatever they choose! I have, on request, installed Norton, Trend Micro, ESET, SecuraLive and many others at various times. (Yes, I have even installed Avast! and AVG as well!)
Of the many hundreds of installs (of Norman) I have done in the last 20 years, very, very few of those customers had a major infection. Those that did have problems were typically downloading hacked or cracked software, pirated movies and music from dodgy sites, or generally ignoring any and all warnings by having a blasé attitude to computer security!
Full disclosure? I actually have a copy of AVG Mobile on my phone! The company I was getting Norman from gave me some "complimentary" licenses for ALL platforms when they changed to AVG, but the Mobile was the only one I used!
BTW, many many Av's use BitDefender as their scanning engine, as does/did Norman, others use Ikarus, or Avira.
It appears that AVG and Avast! use there own.


With all due respect and just out of curiosity, do you have a vested interest in Avast!?

Nope, no vested interest, just really like their product and have never found one that gives similar protection IMHO. Emsisoft is ok, I guess, although far to many questions and has already locked up on updating twice on my machine, and I think it ate a couple of my programs when I installed, but have no proof.

I tend to try to drink my customers KoolAid, so I may use linux for a media center, and have considered it for servers, I wouldn't use it as my desktop until most of my users do, and they wont. I don't bother to "lock down" windows either, I want the same problems my users have, so I know what to expect with them (that's not to say I don't take security precautions). So if your a Linux only guy, I think you need to spend some time on this side of the fence (again? maybe you did before?) and try those AV options again.
A UTM is great in business, but not for home use (majority of my clients). Same with Limted Accounts and custom Hosts file. Oh and Common Sense ain't common, so can't rely on my customers for that. So I need a product that will apply the appropriate action when an issue is found, with minimal user interaction, and preferably before the damage is done.

Re Buried Options, why have them?
Have you ever had to set an exception for a program? One of those "false-positives"? Every AV has FP's, that's why exceptions exist. But I surely don't want my users to be able to easily set them manually, as the will just make an exception for C:\* and wonder why there machine keeps getting re-infected. That's just an example. There have been many time, across all products, that I, as a tech, have needed to change an obscure setting for troubleshooting or compatibility that I really didn't want my customer to have easy access too. Its like settings in any other high-level program; yeah they exist, but you really shouldn't change them unless you know what your doing, so lets just hide the pretty buttons from the Monkey that likes to play with buttons (not saying EU's are monkeys, just example).

At the end, we all have our preferences, and typically we came to those preferences by testing and use of the product. I would say, that if we all had the same issues, then there would only be one product out there to choose from. But I think we can all agree that the big names, like McAfee, Norton/Symantec, Trend, and a couple others, are all pretty much junk and should never be recommended to a client you like. And remember: just because some free products are crap (looking at you AVG), doesn't mean they all are, or all use the same business model.

 

[GTP]

Emsisoft is ok, I guess, although far to many questions and has already locked up on updating twice on my machine, and I think it ate a couple of my programs when I installed, but have no proof.

All the "proof" you need will be in the log files. A quick email to Emsisoft support (with the attached log) will give you the answers you seek!

At the end, we all have our preferences

Just like music, food or movies, it all comes down to preference. I started out using/testing products till I found what worked for me and that I was comfortable with.
Reputation is a HUGE thing and you put that reputation on the line every time you recommend a product to your customers.
Customers will lose confidence in you very quickly if you don't believe in the products you recommend.

I tend to try to drink my customers KoolAid, so I may use linux for a media center, and have considered it for servers, I wouldn't use it as my desktop until most of my users do, and they wont. I don't bother to "lock down" windows either, I want the same problems my users have, so I know what to expect with them (that's not to say I don't take security precautions). So if your a Linux only guy, I think you need to spend some time on this side of the fence (again? maybe you did before?) and try those AV options again.
A UTM is great in business, but not for home use (majority of my clients). Same with Limted Accounts and custom Hosts file. Oh and Common Sense ain't common, so can't rely on my customers for that. So I need a product that will apply the appropriate action when an issue is found, with minimal user interaction, and preferably before the damage is done.

"I drink my customers KoolAid" regularly, I dont just bury my head in my [Linux] sandbox! And I do spend almost every day "on this side of the fence" - I do have Windblows machines that are used for testing/diagnosing etc that are forward facing with the same software my customers use!
I didn't say I was a "Linux only" guy! I said I use Linux for my own personal use!

As I previously stated, personally, I use Linux. The Windows machines are all behind a UTM appliance, all with "limited user" accounts, password protected, "custom" hosts files, no IE, no Google and a big application of common sense!

All this is "my own personal setup." It is NOT typical of my customers!
I do have some (small business) customers using the same UTM as I do (I am an agent for the company after all) some use PFSense Appliances.
Most of my home users wouldn't know a "UTM Appliance" from a hole in the wall! Lol. I just set up the options as best I can on the cheap ISP supplied Modem/routers they get on signup! If I can I try to sell them a better Modem/Router.
Many of my customers use (and prefer) software that I would not recommend, but, there's that word again, "preference!"

At the end, we all have our preferences, and typically we came to those preferences by testing and use of the product. I would say, that if we all had the same issues, then there would only be one product out there to choose from. But I think we can all agree that the big names, like McAfee, Norton/Symantec, Trend, and a couple others, are all pretty much junk and should never be recommended to a client you like. And remember: just because some free products are crap (looking at you AVG), doesn't mean they all are, or all use the same business model.

Agreed! As my Dear Mum always says "If we all liked the same art, there would only be one Artist!"

 

[GTP]

Interesting Reading!
False Positive test (Avast last! Worse that Microsoft Defender)
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/avc_fps_201603_en.pdf (page 8)

File detection test (Avast 14th!)
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/avc_fdt_201603_en.pdf (page 7)