Current recommendations for *basic* desktop machine

[YeOldeStonecat]

The monitor situation is what's nice about the Lenovo Tiny in One setups.
The monitor has a special "dock" in the back, that the TinyPC slides into. So it's basically 2x different parts...they just fit together.
So if the monitor falls and the screen cracks, get another TIO monitor..slide the TinyPC out of the old monitor, into the new monitor.

Likewise...if it's time to get a more powerful TinyPC in a few years, slide out the old one, slide in the new one..into that same nice monitor that still works.

 

[Markverhyden]

Unless a customer specifically wants a new machine I always pitch a refurb business class machine. Microcenter has them for shipment. Easy to find a 16gb RAM, 512 SSD, I5 3.2, etc, etc. Under $300.

 

[britechguy]

Easy to find a 16gb RAM, 512 SSD, I5 3.2, etc, etc. Under $300.

I was able to find in this price range, but not that could upgrade to Windows 11. And I expect that anyone who's buying a new machine at this time, even if they elect to stay with Windows 10 until 2025, will be mighty peeved if they can't upgrade to Windows 11 when Windows 10 reaches EOL.

 

[Porthos]

I hate to say it but I am recommending new currently. None of the refurbs are 8th gen or better. I can't justify selling a replacement that loses support in 4 yrs.

Sucks as I was making decent money on refurbs. Now all I get is the data transfer and setup.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@Porthos I can get refurbs that are 8th gen, and got some 9ths as open boxes. They don't impart the huge savings the refurbs do, but they are out there.

But yeah, I too am only selling Win11 ready equipment for the same reasons.

 

[Porthos]

They don't impart the huge savings the refurbs do, but they are out there.

Exactly. Not as cheap as 4th-6 Gens. Home users are looking for the price. Rather not have them buy a $300 pos from Walmart.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Exactly. Not as cheap as 4th-6 Gens. Home users are looking for the price. Rather not have them buy a $300 pos from Walmart.

The $300 POS from Walmart can often run Windows 11... We're not going to be able to compete on price for another year at least.

In any event, all we can do is educate, make an offer, and if they walk so be it. They'll be back when that POS breaks.

 

[Markverhyden]

I was able to find in this price range, but not that could upgrade to Windows 11. And I expect that anyone who's buying a new machine at this time, even if they elect to stay with Windows 10 until 2025, will be mighty peeved if they can't upgrade to Windows 11 when Windows 10 reaches EOL.

Those machines easily surpass the specs for running W11. They're business machines so they'll all have TPM and UEFI

 

[britechguy]

Those machines easily surpass the specs for running W11. They're business machines so they'll all have TPM and UEFI

They have an 8th Gen or later processor? I'll have to go to the site and check there, but I have not found a single machine in that price range, and particularly refurbed ones, that meet all the specs, particularly the processor generation specs, for upgrading to Windows 11.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Those machines easily surpass the specs for running W11. They're business machines so they'll all have TPM and UEFI

Careful, TPM and Secure Boot aren't the only requirements, the CPU must be on the list too. There are plenty of 6th and 7th gen machines that meet the first two requirements, but not the third!

 

[britechguy]

Careful, TPM and Secure Boot aren't the only requirements, the CPU must be on the list too. There are plenty of 6th and 7th gen machines that meet the first two requirements, but not the third!

And having looked at Microcenter right after I posted my prior message, in the price range formerly mentioned, that's precisely the case.

There are mighty few 8th Gen or newer processors on the refurb market for any less, and often cost more, than you can get decent home grade equipment that will serve a very great many for years and years without problem.

I don't think I've ever owned a business-class computer, though I certainly used plenty when I was "otherwise employed." I have been able to happily use consumer grade machines for years without issue, and though I don't abuse them, I don't baby them, either. They're pretty robust when treated with even a modicum of care.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy The problem I have with consumer junk is the way they BIOS update. Everything younger than 5th gen needs at least semi-annual bios updates for security reasons, and without business grade tools I cannot safely perform that task remotely.

Dell's consumer stuff is still pretty easy though on a machine to machine basis, it's just not scriptable so I can update an entire fleet.

 

[Markverhyden]

G8's came into being around 2017. Been a while since I checked but many of these refurbs we've been getting were only 2-3 years old. I've got one location that's picked up 3-4 in the last few months, I'll remote in tonight and see what they actually came with for processors.

 

[Markverhyden]

Careful, TPM and Secure Boot aren't the only requirements, the CPU must be on the list too. There are plenty of 6th and 7th gen machines that meet the first two requirements, but not the third!

I believe TPM and UEFI are an absolute requirement. Processor is only absolute for things like updates, patches etc. One can still shoe horn in a W11 install by installing via ISO on earlier hardware.

 

[britechguy]

@britechguy The problem I have with consumer junk is the way they BIOS update. Everything younger than 5th gen needs at least semi-annual bios updates for security reasons, and without business grade tools I cannot safely perform that task remotely.

Dell's consumer stuff is still pretty easy though on a machine to machine basis, it's just not scriptable so I can update an entire fleet.

No argument there. But, again, it comes down to who you're serving, and how that needs to be done, and who I'm serving, and how that typically is done.

When your primary demographic is residential, and you're not an MSP, things like BIOS updates fall into the "not my problem until or unless called" category. Not to mention that if I set my clients up with the "service station" type software for their computer manufacturer, the whole process becomes one of, "If the service station is recommending the update, do the update," for an end user. UEFI/BIOS updates these days are just running the program supplied. They're a snap. I haven't had one go south in many years now.

 

[britechguy]

Processor is only absolute for things like updates, patches etc.

And you'd propose having a Windows 11 system that is not likely to get updates? I don't think so (and I mean I don't think you think so).

I am not chancing it that Microsoft is not going to cement that line that's in the sand. So, as of this date, if the hardware doesn't fully meet Windows 11 requirements I'm not about to recommend it. It's just asking for customers who will be POed, if not sooner because they seek out Windows 11 then later when Windows 10 hits EOL and they have a computer that's "just a couple of years old" from their point of view.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy Yeah, I have a client that bought 5 refurbs that I delivered the day Windows 11's requirements landed.
She understood that was beyond by ability to predict, and returning the machines while possible didn't really help because it meant buying new. So she opted to keep the units and use them until Oct 2025.

Still cheaper per year, but the whole situation discolored the transaction. It's not a situation I'd care to repeat. So now I'm very clear on what machines support Win11, and what do not. If clients are on a shoe string they can get the older refurbs, but they know going in they have an expiration date.

 

[britechguy]

If clients are on a shoe string they can get the older refurbs, but they know going in they have an expiration date.

And, there again, that reflects on the level of sophistication of your clients.

Some of mine would get the "expiration date" concept promptly if I were to explain it to them, and leaving out any gory details, but others probably wouldn't.

This is one of those cases where I feel my own "value added service" is taking what I know of an existing client, and trying to give options based on that. It's so easy to get "into the weeds" about Windows 11 hardware requirements, and we've seen that here, and Microsoft hasn't exactly helped with how they've gone about adding processors to the approved list.

My own simple metric, at the moment, is looking at processor first, and if it's earlier than 8th Gen, it's out if it's Intel. I consult the list for AMD. Then, if the processor is OK, I quickly check if all else required is actually present. Luckily this is not something I'm having to do often, and within a couple of years it's going to be irrelevant. But I expect there will be 3 to 4 years of the need to check this when it comes to refurbs if someone wants them to work with Windows 11.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

And on my current old HP rig here, a measly i5-34870 which is a 3rd gen...running Win11 since back in June or July....back when one of the early Insider Previews came out. Never did the registry trick to bypass.

Wonder how much longer it'll run on this rig...we'll be getting new rigs in a month or so anyways, going to get some Lenovo Tiny Workstations..with those built in Quadro cards with the quad mini DP outs.

 

[britechguy]

I would be shocked if Windows 11 would not run "for the life of the rig" on anything on which it was installed. It's well known that Windows 11 can run on earlier hardware, and that's unsurprising given its development history.

The question is whether Microsoft will allow Windows Update to continue functioning when it detects that the underlying hardware does not meet minimum requirements. If they stick to their guns, and refuse to update/patch, it's insanity to continue running an unsupported Windows OS on any machine. If they don't, and do allow updates, then I see no reason to remove it unless that were to change.

But that's an approach for tech geeks, who can handle all this stuff themselves, to take. It would be a disaster to take it for your random client.