It finally happened to me.

[sapphirescales]

I quit invoicing

This is the way. If a client wants a loan, he can go to the bank. I don't offer free loans. Payment is due at the time of service or at the time of pickup. No later. If they don't pay first, they won't get service. I also demand payment first for costly repairs that aren't worth it. For example, I just had a client pay nearly $1,000 to fix a gaming laptop that's not even worth $800. I advised against it but he just wanted his computer fixed, which is understandable. But you're not stiffing me and forcing me to hold on to it for 6+ months and then sell it for $500 after 6 months of depreciation, online selling fees and all the other BS. Pay first, or no service.

 

[sapphirescales]

How it doesn't occur to certain people that we are paid for our technical knowledge and expertise truly mystifies me.

They're stuck in the mindset of an employee, not a business owner. In their mind, you work for $X per hour. How skilled you are doesn't matter. In their mind, you have to be that skilled in order to get that job in the first place. They only want to pay for time spent, and that's it. What they don't realize is not all of us have enough work to work 8 hours a day and even if we do, we sometimes get jobs in that take hours where we don't get paid, or we get paid so little that we might as well work at McDonalds. We also get jobs that take 5 minutes and we can charge hundreds of dollars for. It all averages out in the end so we get paid enough to stay in business and pay ourselves enough to live. Our job isn't as simple as, "get $X per hour, then go home and forget about work."

 

[britechguy]

They only want to pay for time spent, and that's it.

No, they're being cheap and unrealistic. I have plenty of clients (including both business and residential) who would not think, for a single second, of not paying me if they engaged my services to fix a problem and it only took 3 minutes to fix.

Skilled trades and professions are not hourly workers in the sense of pay exactly the time it takes. There are always minimums "per service call."

Essentially, I'm not letting the outrageously stupid/cheap/nasty client off the hook even as easily as you are. I don't expect that anyone I engage to perform a service is likely to charge me for 5 minutes time even if, in a given instance, that's what it took. There is a service call minimum (and although even I'll admit there have been times I've deeply resented having to pay that, I kept that to myself).

One of the reasons (among many) that lawyers are so hated is that they do not give you a single second of their time without billing for it. I don't operate by that business model. If I have a loyal customer send me a text or email that I can answer virtually instantly, that's a freebie. The amount of additional referrals and good will I've generated by taking this approach far outstrips what I would have gotten in billed time.

I take the middle road, but as I said earlier, I'm the one who's making the call about when a freebie is doled out, not the client. I've actually had several people pay me recently just for having answered a question (and where I did not bill/invoice and was not going to). There is great business value in strategically extending helping hands without expecting payment, but you have to decide when those are occurring.

 

[sapphirescales]

Essentially, I'm not letting the outrageously stupid/cheap/nasty client off the hook even as easily as you are.

I don't let any client off the hook for being cheap. I fire them. I'm just explaining their mentality and why they think that way.

I have plenty of clients (including both business and residential) who would not think, for a single second, of not paying me if they engaged my services to fix a problem and it only took 3 minutes to fix.

Yes, that's called a "normal" client. If I called a plumber out to replace my water heater and they found out all they had to do was drain it or replace one of the rods or whatever (I'm not a plumbing guy so forgive me if I don't know the details), I would be delighted that it only took 20 minutes and they charged me their minimum $300 labor rate or whatever. That's much cheaper than buying a new water heater and I'd rather them finish and get out of my house ASAP then have them spend hours and have to replace the whole hot water heater. I wouldn't argue with them and say it only took 20 minutes so they should only charge me 1/3 of an hour. Some people would though.

One of the reasons (among many) that lawyers are so hated is that they do not give you a single second of their time without billing for it.

Yeah that's because it seems greedy, but only if you have main character syndrome. It's not a big deal if they give you 5 minutes of their time for free, but you're not their only client. If they gave 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there and 2 minutes here all day long they'd be working an extra hour or two per day for no pay. Ask the cheapwad client if they'd like to work and extra hour or two at work every day for free and they'll say no of course.

I don't operate by that business model. If I have a loyal customer send me a text or email that I can answer virtually instantly, that's a freebie.

Yes. It's just hard not to give too much of your time for free because it makes them feel entitled. My rule is, 15 minutes of free remote support with every repair, which expires 30 days after the repair. If it's one of my clients who calls frequently, I'll keep a record of their short 2-5 minute calls and bill them when they reach the 15 minute threshold. I'm not writing a receipt for $12 here and $30 there. It takes more time to write the receipt and send it then it does to do the work itself. For annoying clients, I'll stick to my 15 minute minimum. If they call and take up 6 minutes of my time, I charge them for 15.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Thats' why I focus more on monthly managed biz clients.
*Fixed income from them each month
*Project fees....this is where you can charge good $ for your skills. That old adage about the ship engine mechanic that took 5 seconds and tapped an engine block in a certain spot with a 5 dollar hammer, but charged several grand...for his skills.
*We carry stuff, we do things on terms. Bout $65k in outstanding right now. But a couple of big projects just had invoices sent out this month so that number is riding higher than average.

 

[brandonkick]

It's not that these people don't know, most of em don't care. They see the bottom line and the bitch fest commences.

I'm guilty of undercharging if anything. A personal good friend (I was basically on a near best friend basis with his son while I grew up) has a mailing business. They buy and print postage. So "junk mail" basically. They get sent the junkmail, the buy the postage through a software, and print it on the things they are mailing and then drop at the post office.

They have this 25 ish year old printers that do the job. Bryce / Secap type units.

Over the years I've done a lot of work for him including upgrading his computer systems twice, OS updates.... repairs, upgrades and managing these legacy printers on modern OS's hasn't be trivial.


Anways, I get a call from him the other day. His printers won't print. Ended up getting a replacement printer, but it's the exact same as his old printer. I spend a good 30 min via teamviewer trying to save myself the nearly one hour drive to get over there. I eventually end up figuring out the issue.... the virtual printer port mappings weren't correct (he changed physical USB ports). Bingo. Printing away.


He was rather anxious about the whole thing as he had a few critical jobs to get out and couldn't afford for them to be late.

As we end the call, he asks me what he owes me. To tell you the truth, I wasn't set on charging him at all. I mutter "How's $40 sound". He instantly shot back "I'll send you $100".


Our knowledge is worth something folks. Most people balk. But I'll tell you this... last summer when the HVAC tech came out to replace a simple $55 part on my central air unit... they had zero qualms about charging me $240 for the trip and the labor. That's even after the part was covered under manufacture warranty. I'm sure I'd have paid over $100 for the part if it weren't. The HVAC folks, the bank's mortgage interest, the mechanic at the auto repair shop.... they don't hesitate to charge us. So you when it's your turn you have to charge too.

 

[thecomputerguy]

It's not that these people don't know, most of em don't care. They see the bottom line and the bitch fest commences.

I'm guilty of undercharging if anything. A personal good friend (I was basically on a near best friend basis with his son while I grew up) has a mailing business. They buy and print postage. So "junk mail" basically. They get sent the junkmail, the buy the postage through a software, and print it on the things they are mailing and then drop at the post office.

They have this 25 ish year old printers that do the job. Bryce / Secap type units.

Over the years I've done a lot of work for him including upgrading his computer systems twice, OS updates.... repairs, upgrades and managing these legacy printers on modern OS's hasn't be trivial.


Anways, I get a call from him the other day. His printers won't print. Ended up getting a replacement printer, but it's the exact same as his old printer. I spend a good 30 min via teamviewer trying to save myself the nearly one hour drive to get over there. I eventually end up figuring out the issue.... the virtual printer port mappings weren't correct (he changed physical USB ports). Bingo. Printing away.


He was rather anxious about the whole thing as he had a few critical jobs to get out and couldn't afford for them to be late.

As we end the call, he asks me what he owes me. To tell you the truth, I wasn't set on charging him at all. I mutter "How's $40 sound". He instantly shot back "I'll send you $100".


Our knowledge is worth something folks. Most people balk. But I'll tell you this... last summer when the HVAC tech came out to replace a simple $55 part on my central air unit... they had zero qualms about charging me $240 for the trip and the labor. That's even after the part was covered under manufacture warranty. I'm sure I'd have paid over $100 for the part if it weren't. The HVAC folks, the bank's mortgage interest, the mechanic at the auto repair shop.... they don't hesitate to charge us. So you when it's your turn you have to charge too.

A WISE MAN YOU ARE!

 

[thecomputerguy]

This idiot actually emailed me last night because he needs additional help with his email.

I just responded with

Hi Client,

You have a balance of $55 on your account. Please submit payment and I'll be happy to help.

 

[Larry Sabo]

I would have written off the $55, and that customer. Who needs customers that don't appreciate your service are are reluctant to pay for it?

 

[callthatgirl]

@thecomputerguy and tell him to prepay $220 for another hour to use in the future, no more invoices lol. He's cut off imo.