[SOLVED] Let's work this one out together - Noobs and Old Timers

[markcuk11]

I still think its the crucial 5,000 hours bug

 

[atlanticjim]

Alright at this point if you've experienced or heard of this situation before then you should have the answer already.

The main things to keep in mind here is that it does crash like clock work (or so i've heard in the past). He already reinstalled windows.

There is only a few situations where something like this can happen so reliably. Unless im mistaken here and I don't think I am this only leaves 2 primary possibilities.

1. Something is influencing the power every 90 minutes...which i suppose is possible but not likely for a residential gamer.

2. Something is telling something to do something every 90 minutes and you already know reinstalling windows doesn't fix it.

Edit: hmm you know now that I think about it...was the issue every 90 minutes or every 60 minutes? I can't recall.

Hmmm , one thing I missed was seeing what process was invoked just before the bsod. I didn't try, how would I have found out which process was the culprit?

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

never said you didnt have it right mark =P

Hmmm , one thing I missed was seeing what process was invoked just before the bsod. I didn't try, how would I have found out which process was the culprit?

whats in the dump and whats in process monitor is the only things i know of.

Edit: Not that its relevant here as I don't believe anything would show for that particular issue.

 

[NYJimbo]

I want an update.

Does anyone know "atlanticjim's" GPS coordinates ? Because I know a guy in the Air Force Global Strike Command that owes me a favor...

Either I get an update on this thread by 5pm eastern, so I can go drinking... or I'm making a phone call......

 

[markcuk11]

never said you didnt have it right mark =P



whats in the dump and whats in process monitor is the only things i know of.

Edit: Not that its relevant here as I don't believe anything would show for that particular issue.

Hate waiting for the answer

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

Hate waiting for the answer

Sorry =P I was curious about how others would approach the issue. Only reason I even knew about this was from reading a bunch of reviews when I was shopping for one.

If I didnt know the issue I know I would have determined quickly that it was very consistant. With the issue being that consistant and reliable like clockwork id have started googling the duration + the parts in the machine see if anything stood out. I'd have found the answer fairly quickly like that but not if I was one of the first purchasers and the issue wasnt known....i probably would have eventually cloned to the 500gb hard drive and tried it but who knows how long it would have taken me to resort to trying that.

 

[markcuk11]

When I worked in NZ we sold a system with a raid 5 Adata SSD back in 2010 and guess what bug we came across!!

Had to wait months for a fix, We had the suppliers pull the drives at that point! I knew about the crucial one because I have one! and I know the early problems with SSD drives.

Good to see how people tackle the problem but a 5 minute fix in the end.

Mark

 

[atlanticjim]

Sorry =P I was curious about how others would approach the issue. Only reason I even knew about this was from reading a bunch of reviews when I was shopping for one.

If I didnt know the issue I know I would have determined quickly that it was very consistant. With the issue being that consistant and reliable like clockwork id have started googling the duration + the parts in the machine see if anything stood out. I'd have found the answer fairly quickly like that but not if I was one of the first purchasers and the issue wasnt known....i probably would have eventually cloned to the 500gb hard drive and tried it but who knows how long it would have taken me to resort to trying that.

The answer in my next post ... At 4:45 EDST... just to avoid incoming ordnance...but until then.... More hints. ...

I did load a fresh win 7 onto the 500gb idle hd and it did NOT bsod!

 

[brandonkick]

Well lets start with what we do know:

The machine ran fine for a period of time.

You can throw out things like screwing the motherboard directly to the case without the mounts. It would have caused problems almost (if not) instantly.

We can probably also rule out hardware incompatibility, since the machine and its parts played nicely for an extended period of time.

The clockwork timing throws me through the loop, I'd almost lean on a rootkit (which is a somewhat advanced conclusion to come too... I'm writing this out for the benefit of a new tech learning) but I've never heard of one rebooting every 90 min.

Normally behavior like this leads me to believe it would be heat related (without the rootkit assumption), however 90 min is quite a long time for a machine to over heat..... and this one is liquid cooled.

Since we do know that the system was reinstalled, with generic drivers to boot we can almost promise that this wasn't a software issue (barring a rootkit). What do you have at that point though, a timer of some kind. Something within that electrical circuit on a timer?

A little stumped myself on this one. But I wouldn't blame pirated anything on this, even forgetting that the system was wiped and still exhibited the same behavior. Unless they've always been having this problem then I wouldn't put a ton of stock in a pirated OS being the cause. Having said that I still wouldn't work on such a system unless the customer agreed to go legit with their OS.

Curious to this one as well.

 

[SilverLeaf]

So it's a power management issue with the SSD?

 

[atlanticjim]

The answer is:

The Crucial SSD 5000 hr firmware bug
_______________________________

Kudos to:

ComputerRepairTech
Markcuk11
Metanis

Who all hit it on the head.
__________________

Honorable mention to:

NightKingdom
SAG
YeOldStoner (StoneCat)

Who were hot on the trail.

ComputerRepairTech-- will you do the honors and describe the "Crucial SSD 5000 hr firmware bug" with references?

I've been posting via tapa-talk all day.

 

[KompuKare]

There have been so many SSD bugs (I know AngryGeek and YeOldStone will be along to chime about the merits of 15K SAS drives soon...), that I can keep track of them all. Might even have read of this one (fairly sure I did hear something about the M4).

Anyway here's something from crucial themselves (although companies themselves are not always the best source for info: just had to look up a Java exploit and Oracle had very little info indeed whereas Technet couldn't help themselves with providing tons of info):

"BSOD Crucial M4 ...
We are aware of an issue that is currently affecting a small number of users whereby their m4 causes their system to require a restart. This issue occurs after approximately 5,000 hours of actual “on time” use. Following the initial reboot, the system then requires subsequent restarts after each additional hour of use. However, the data on the SSD is unaffected and will not be lost due to this condition."
http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/BSOD-Crucial-M4/td-p/79098

I assume from the hints dropped that's what this about but they do list 60 mins not 90 mins.

 

[brandonkick]

Never worked with SSD's before... but it makes sense.

Probably would have figured it out without really figuring it out, since I wouldn't have had another SSD to swap in and would have swapped in a different kind of drive.

That's an odd bug I must admit!

 

[NYJimbo]

The answer is:

The Crucial SSD 5000 hr firmware bug

------------------------------------

Ok, but it took you TWO WEEKS to find this ? :

Hey everyone.
For the past two weeks, I have had a machine in the shop that I just could not figure out.

I didn't think it was an issue because its a known problem and others here guessed it in hours or just after reading your post ?

 

[atlanticjim]

Ok, but it took you TWO WEEKS to find this ?



I didn't think it was an issue because its a known problem and others found it in hours or just after reading your post ?

Well, this is not my full time occupation (healthcare is). So, although I had the machine for two weeks, the actual time spent on it (screen time and research) was about three or four hours. It was the automated testing and waiting for failure that took some time.
What did I learn? Mostly to keep up with my reading. If I had been more diligent, I would have known about this firmware problem. I didn't even suspect it since I have such high regard for Crucial products.

 

[Metanis]

Sort of similar problem

Some years ago I had to remotely troubleshoot a PC that also seemed to reboot every hour or so. As I recall this was a Win98 machine in a small branch office many miles away from the nearest company technician. After some frustrating hours on the phone with the user we reached the stage of tracing the power circuits and found the user's PC was on the same circuit as a big honkin' laser printer. Every time the fuser drum heater in the laser printer kicked in then the circuit voltage sagged enough to cause the PC to drop out and reboot. I had the user plug his power outlet strip into a different wall plug in the adjacent cubicle and the problem was solved. (Until the next user came along!

 

[ComputerRepairTech]

ComputerRepairTech-- will you do the honors and describe the "Crucial SSD 5000 hr firmware bug" with references?

Sure, in late 2011 early 2012 a glitch was discovered in the m4 firmware where an incorrect response to a SMART counter would cause the m4 drive to stop responding if the drive had over 5184 hours of power on time. The drive will recover after a power cycle, however, this failure will repeat once per hour after reaching this point.

Reference: http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/M4-firmware-0309-is-now-available/td-p/80286

Edit: Over all the hardest issues ive ever encountered almost always deal with trying to resolve a microsoft products issues without reinstalling windows. Its like the microsoft team sits there and plays a game to see who can insert code and files in the highest number of different places on the hard drive and registry.

 

[mm201]

Biostar motherboard...double UGH.

The first computer I built for myself had a Biostar motherboard and I was so proud of myself because of the small amount I spent building the machine. I think it lasted all of a year. Lesson learned.

 

[PR Tech]

I really like this format and the back and forth. It was a nice thread. Thank you!

 

[atlanticjim]

I really like this format and the back and forth. It was a nice thread. Thank you!

Thanks, I thought it would be a useful and fun format. I hope that some others will want to start a similar thread