[REQUEST] Outlook Alternative

[Blues]

I understand that but if a simple solution exists that more precisely matches the users request I will go that route.

 

[britechguy]

I understand that but if a simple solution exists that more precisely matches the users request I will go that route

And that's where we probably differ, based on what's been offered so far.

What the user requests (very often due to ignorance of options) is never the first option for me. I try to persuade and educate, particularly in instances where the writing is on the wall. That's not the case for email clients in general, but there have been many other instances where my clients want to "keep what I'm used to" where I know that will lead to nothing but heartache in the not-so-long term and, even though it would result in almost certain repeat business for me, I try to avoid giving them what they want when what they want is in no way even close to ideal.

Whether in retail or computer repair, I long ago learned that the customer most assuredly is not always right. And very often they thank you for pointing that out, if it's done in a diplomatic fashion and with rationale(s) presented.

These days, although I still deal with email clients, I always try to persuade folks to webmail where I can. The ability to hop on to a random computer to check your email when you are away from home (for those not using a smartphone) is something that is incredibly handy.

 

[HCHTech]

I'm paraphrasing from my frequently-used customer explanations #17, aka Why configuring Outlook to get your GMail is a bad idea

It is useful to note that Microsoft and Google are COMPETITORS. There is no benefit to either of them to make they competitor's products play well with theirs. Sure, you can make it work, but it seems that over the long term, problems are inevitable. One or the other will make a change with the intention of increasing security (being charitable) or just changing around the user interface (more likely) that will break something in the interaction with the competitor's systems. And, they at worst, won't care, or at best, will treat this as a low-priority problem. But you, the user will end up suffering. But wait - what would you say if I told you that you have the ability right now to avoid this inevitable headache by choosing NOT to get your Gmail inside of Outlook, or having your hotmail or outlook.com mail routed to Gmail. Take the more-reasoned route and let each product you have do what it does best and don't try to shoehorn two things that don't go together, just for the supposed benefits of a "single pane of glass". It's your life, you can absolutely do what you want, but you can also avoid so much frustration by NOT spending time, effort & money to configure something that is doomed to fail through no fault of yours.

You can apply this same logic to many softwares. Don't use iTunes to handle your collection of 50,000 hand-ripped MP3 files. Don't buy a Mac and then run a Windows VM as your main computer. I could go on, but won't - you get the idea.

 

[Blues]

You have a point about pushing change on them but in this example I don't see a benefit to web system of the app or any down side to the app option here. That is part of why I look at is matching their request a simple matter or not if it is simple then meeting their expectations will serve to benefit me. Evaluating the longevity of the solution is a factor in anything I am going to provide but I see my role as providing a solution to a problem and that problem includes customer expectations so the solution must also. I will say in the case of email clients I have found what I witness of customer experiences and my own email clients are still a superior solution to email over web based email systems. I think you and I have a competing view on which is better in general here @britechguy but I do understand and mostly follow a similar view to the overall task of solutions to customer problems.

 

[Blues]

Don't use iTunes to handle your collection of 50,000 hand-ripped MP3 files.

I would add a caveat to that if you are using an iPhone or iPod, or what ever replaced it, to listen to and playback your hand-ripped MP3 files iTunes is absolutely a solid resource for hand-ripped MP3s.

Don't buy a Mac and then run a Windows VM as your main computer.

For Intel based mac's why run it as a VM just run it native with dual boot and as your main and you will be fine.

 

[fincoder]

The ability to hop on to a random computer to check your email when you are away from home (for those not using a smartphone) is something that is incredibly handy.

Using a good email client on your main computer does not prevent access to your email folders and contacts via webmail on any computer.

Also, if webmail interfaces are so good, why not use it on a smartphone? Nobody does that, everyone uses a mail client app on their phones because it works better (far more efficient and simple to use). Mail client apps on PCs, while the difference is not so stark, in many cases work a little more efficiently and are a little easier to use than webmail.

Lots of ordinary home users actually don't mind the Windows 10 Mail app. I use Outlook, emClient and Mail on various PCs. I use the Gmail app on android devices (even though I don't have a gmail account).

I wouldn't dream of using the basic cPanel webmail that's available for my domain email. It's so easy to add accounts to mail client apps these days, even ordinary end users sometimes achieve it!

 

[NJW]

Many essentially act almost precisely like email client programs do.

Except for the abysmal performance on a sluggish connection. For example, Yahoo on a rural connection here (may be in the order of sub-2 Mb/s) is a dreadful experience, not least because of the huge advertising load – you can't interact with the mail until the ads have completed. (Yahoo has other throttling tricks with email clients, too – it's an all-round poor solution, but ...) The Yahoo thing is an extreme example, but is evident to some extent on at least most free webmail pages. Locally, Orange is even worse (and just plain slow on any connection).

It is possible to add an ad blocker (e.g., uBlock Origin or similar), but then we're getting into the realm of a complex set-up and future support calls ("I can't get to my obscure website").

Then there's the lack of offline access, which you can't work around.

If webmail works for you and your clients, that's great, but it isn't my first choice for me and mine.

 

[NJW]

Thunderbird is the one I get complaints about and had been my free got to up to this point ...

What are the complaints? Thunderbird is very adjustable and I have a set of settings changes that I always apply before letting the client loose on it (e.g., tabs instead of windows, sort by reverse date – newest at the top, automatic purge, junk handling ...). I also give a tour of the Thunderbird interface and have them send and receive, delete and recover, and mark as spam/not-spam.

On two or three occasions, I have had to replace Thunderbird with emClient, but never for a solid reason – some users just don't like the look in Thunderbird's eyes <shrug>. Free emClient is fine, but limited to two accounts and has to be registered, with an annual (?) free licence renewal requirement.

 

[Blues]

I think for my older clients the tabs is something they don't like and continue to struggle with as well I believe one of my more recent complaints had to do with some advertising in the Thunderbird client. Before I put anything on a client system I do my own digging into it so this thread has been about finding the options and evaluating them myself first.

 

[Diggs]

advertising in the Thunderbird client

Arrruuu? Thunderbird has never had ads.

 

[britechguy]

Then there's the lack of offline access, which you can't work around.

Er, no. At least not with Gmail and, I think, Outlook.com

Also, and this doesn't just apply just to you, personally, but I would appreciate it if people did not put words in my mouth that I never said or implied. I have, not once, said that webmail is the one and only option. It may, or may not, be a preferable option for certain people in specific circumstances who may never have even considered it because "it's not what I've always done."

Feature matching (or method matching) is always something that one is obligated to do. Always.

 

[Blues]

It was months ago so I could be forgetting what it was and confusing it with another problem I worked that same visit.

 

[HCHTech]

I think for my older clients the tabs is something they don't like and continue to struggle with

Our elderly clients almost to a one hated Thunderbird because they just couldn't get the hang of the tabs. I'd go back a few months after installing it and find 50 tabs open or more. They just keep clicking until they somehow stumble across the thing they were looking for.

 

[Philippe]

I think for my older clients the tabs is something they don't like and continue to struggle with

Same here. I always disable them (Options / Open in a new window or something like that).

 

[Larry Sabo]

Same here. I always disable them (Options / Open in a new windows or something like that).

I set it to open in same window, or else they end up with multiple windows open.

 

[britechguy]

I set it to open in same window, or else they end up with multiple windows open.

For me, it depends on what they're used to. A lot of older email clients would open each message (or thread) in its own separate window.

No matter what the defaults may be, there's always some subset of users who don't like 'em. If I can switch 'em, then that's fine. If they're fixed, that's another story.

 

[callthatgirl]

The Mail app does a decent job for exchange and IMAP, haven't figured a pop before. If you can, use whatever Outlook desktop you have to import the PST to Exchange or IMAP to any email account, then dump the Outlook desktop.

eMClient does a fair job, a lot of errors if you have a lot of email accounts I have found

 

[Sky-Knight]

@HCHTech You're not wrong to point out that Microsoft and Google are competitors... there is however a niggle in your logic.

Due to the nature of M365, it IS in MICROSOFT'S best interest to make Outlook work with competitors, specifically Google. There are a HORDE of organizations out there that use GSuite for cloud services, and M365 for on premise apps. There are a few more than utilize both cloud structures at the same time.

Which is why the current version of Outlook via M365 is capable of auto-configuring itself with modern authentication and an API token to get at GMAIL services via the IMAP protocol, but wrapped in vastly superior 2FA enabled authentication systems.

This happens a ton in education... so you see there is very much a financial incentive for these two huge companies to get along in these very specific circumstances. I use Outlook M365 with GMail every day, it just works... it's not giving me a lick of trouble since Microsoft made the last changes to modern auth.

That being said, you MUST HAVE M365 OR Office 2019 to do this. 2016 and back aren't as stable on this front. And we should be seeing Office 2021 soon. This is one of those places where if you need this feature to work, you MUST be using the subscription based product OR the purpetual product in MAINSTREAM support. You cannot allow it to go "out of date". If you do, splat.

 

[britechguy]

2016 and back aren't as stable on this front.

I will simply state that I have had Outlook 2016 configured with Gmail (using IMAP) for years now, and on multiple computers, and it has performed without a single fault. eM Client does fine, too, with the occasional throwing of what I consider to be spurious error messages for transient "burps" that resolve themselves that the end user really need not know about.

I wouldn't go back before 2016, ideally, but when I was using 2013 it seemed to work fine then, but I haven't been doing so for at least 3 years or more now.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy This is true, and if you manually configure GMail for IMAP and go through the proper steps it does indeed work.

The new versions however, require none of that... you just login to Google and it works, the Google side setup automatically, Outlook linked up and happy just as easily. It's no more difficult today to attach Outlook to M365's Exchange, than it is Google mail.