Prayers for Las Vegas

[TechLady]

No, you really don't understand the Amercian Psyche. We want everything our Government has up to and including tanks.

Good luck with that.

What's the root cause of these things, if there even is one? Is it cultural, mental illness, weapon prevalence, human nature?

The answer is staring us right in the face.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Time will tell if this gets confirmed:
https://www.infowars.com/former-trump-campaign-official-claims-las-vegas-shooter-made-isis-tape/

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

What's the root cause of these things, if there even is one? Is it cultural, mental illness, weapon prevalence, human nature?

We have the same weapons we had 30, 40, 50 years ago. Semi automatics were around in the 60's and 70's..well...quite earlier.
The guns haven't changed...society changed!

There's a meme going around (normally I dismiss them as quite inaccurate, or at least very exaggerated..but I think this one is at least 75% accurate)...all 8 of the last mass shooters were on some psych meds. This Paddock guy from las vegas, news broke out the other day he was on anti anxiety meds..and a kind that can lead to violent outbursts.

I've said it before...I'll say it again..the laws must loosen up to allow cross reference into med records for the purpose of a gun purchase.

 

[Metanis]

The Constitution is not etched in stone. There are established procedures to change it. Get busy. Do the job the correct way and struggle through the debates which will be bound to occur. Make your case. Otherwise all you are having is a temper tantrum.

 

[TechLady]

Time will tell if this gets confirmed:
https://www.infowars.com/former-trump-campaign-official-claims-las-vegas-shooter-made-isis-tape/

Considering this is the same guy that said the U.S. government is using juice boxes to “make children gay,” and started the whole hilarious Pizzagate thing....no, I don't think that will be confirmed. If this is your "news source" I don't think we need to pursue your arguments any further.

The guns haven't changed...society changed!

They did not have AR-15s when the 2nd Amendment was written. Have a look here for a quick, 30-second demonstration of the difference.

"I've said it before...I'll say it again..the laws must loosen up to allow cross reference into med records for the purpose of a gun purchase.

The guy that shot up Las Vegas apparently had no record or 5150s whatsoever. So while background checks are good, bringing back some actual restrictions (and most of these guys have bought their guns legally) is even better.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Considering this is the same guy that said the U.S. government is using juice boxes to “make children gay,” and started the whole hilarious Pizzagate thing....no, I don't think that will be confirmed. If this is your "news source" I don't think we need to pursue your arguments any further.

It was the number 4 google search result for "Vegas ISIS" and number 1 for "Vegas ISIS Tape". Try it for yourself if yo don't believe me. Also note that I said I am waiting for confirmation. Where do you get your fake news from?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You're cherry picking for convenience there. I've shot AR-15's before. I've shot full automatics before. I've shot old school black powder guns before.

Let's go back to my prior statement...and let's read each work of my entire quote please. "We have the same weapons we had 30, 40, 50 years ago. Semi automatics were around in the 60's and 70's..well...quite earlier.
The guns haven't changed...society changed!"

Reads a bit different when you include my entire context, doesn't it?

The second amendment was written with ink, feather quill, and parchment paper, in rooms heated only by pot belly stoves burning wood. Yes I know technology was different back then. They did not have explosive bombs, and trucks to drive into crowds, which is what that guy in your cute little video realistically would have turned to if he wanted to take out all the people in that room.

Nor did they have the crazy medical medication that messes with todays minds, over prescribed by doctors trying to get their spiffs from big pharma by prescribing tons of their pills.

For the record, I'm not a "pro crazy 88 kajillion round full magazine on full automatic weapons gimme tanks too" gun nut. My like my political lean, I'm tend towards the middle of the road, which is a realistic expectation and usually where a good compromise is. "Compromise"..a word much of todays millenials aren't used to working with, it's their way, or their way, or they..pout really badly and throw tantrums cuz they're used to getting their way.

I live in the state of CT which has very tight gun laws, and I fully support that. I support the move to remove silencers from the market. I support the move to make bump stocks illegal. But to be quite blunt...those are easily, easily obtained anyways (there are underground "black markets" ya know)...or made (I've shot a gun with a home made silencer that a friend of mine made..they're quite easy...mostly just a bunch of washers in a tube!..you're not going to get washers at the hardware store outlawed!)

We have to be realistic...guns are not going to be outlawed in this country. We have to find a balance. And, in my strong opinion, we have to do much...much better and more thorough background checks. I don't mind that, matter of fact, I support that. Personally, I think owning guns is a privilege, not a right. Much like driving a car...a privilege, not a right. Not all gun owners are "nut jobs". 99.99999& of them are fully responsible.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Considering this is the same guy that said the U.S. government is using juice boxes to “make children gay,” and started the whole hilarious Pizzagate thing....no, I don't think that will be confirmed. If this is your "news source" I don't think we need to pursue your arguments any further.

Pretty much.

 

[nlinecomputers]

It was the number 4 google search result for "Vegas ISIS" and number 1 for "Vegas ISIS Tape". Try it for yourself if yo don't believe me. Also note that I said I am waiting for confirmation. Where do you get your fake news from?

Why is it so damn important that this be terrorism? People seem to be going out the way to try and tie this to real terrorism.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Pretty much.

So based on the trivial list of evidence techlady provided and you just confirmed, infowars must comparatively have a stellar record and must be by definition the most trusted news source on the planet.

[
Very Small Subset of CNN Lies

• CNN Headlines Contradict Themselves…Hmmm I Wonder Why?
• CNN Contributor Spreads Fake Picture Of LeBron Giving Trump The Finger
• Trump Wiretapping Claim Ridiculed and then Proven True
• CNN fakes a flood rescue in Texas to repair their damaged reputation
• Attack Trump for high cost of Secret Service costs and claim Trump is to blame for running out of money (of course they leave out the constant death threats). Secret Service rebuts and says they have enough fund through the end of the fiscal year.
• Former Hillary Clinton spokesman and now CNN political contributor Brian E. Fallon falsely claims Charlottesville rally organizer, Jason Kessler, was organizer of Boston Rally
• CNN: Breaking News… Russia has Blackmail Material on Trump #FakeDossier
• CNN’s Jake Tapper plays dumb and says “no one from the Ukrainian government met with anyone from the Clinton Campaign”. Politico says this is Pant-On-Fire False.
• CNN claims anonymous sources tell them Trump won’t bring up election meddling with Putin. Trump bring up election meddling with Putin. Was there ever really a source behind CNN’s claims?
• CNN Host, Reza Aslan, Wished for the Rape of a US Congressman
• NBC, CNN, Washington Post and Many Others All Fill their Papers with Lies about 44 States Refusing to Give Voter Data to President Trump’s Election Integrity Commission
• CNN Just Published A Fake Quote From Abraham Lincoln (also misattribute quote to Ben Franklin)
• Press goes wild over random guys Facebook post which claims Trump and Japanese PM Abe discussed North Korea in public over dinner. Oh and he didn’t hear or see anything that indicated North Korea was discussed, he just assumed. Stop The Presses!!!
• CNN’s Jake Tapper Lies About Trump Not Offering Sympathy to Canada After Mosque Attack
• CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Dancing When Hillary Clinton Wins The Democratic Party Nomination
• CNN’s Larry King to Bill Clinton: Ted Turner [founder of CNN] changed the world. He’s a big fan of yours. He would serve you…you know what I mean… I’d call him You should call him after you’re elected. Think about it.
• First CNN Claims “The Election Can’t Be Hacked”, then they Cry “The Election Has Been Hacked”
• CNN Hires “Reporter” April Ryan, who was Outed by Wikileaks for Conspiring with Clinton Campaign
• CNN Lies and Claims Rape and Domestic Violence Could Be Pre-Existing Conditions
• No, Don Lemon, Loretta Lynch didn’t recuse herself from the Clinton email scandal
• CNN misleads viewers with claim that study shows “Fox News Only Outlet With Overwhelmingly Positive Coverage” when the study showed Fox News tone of Trump coverage was 52% “negative” and 48% “positive”, vastly more balanced than CNN’s 93% negative tone.
• CNN Photoshopped a “Verified” ✸ tag on quoted Tweet and put it on TV
• Rated False: CNN’s Don Lemon says automatic weapons are easy to get
• #fakenews A senior White House ‘anonymous source’ tells CNN’s @SunlenSerfaty that several staffers tease Sean Spicer with super soakers after McCarthy’s ‘SNL’ sketch
• First the headline reads: “First on CNN: Trump bringing Supreme Court favorites to Washington”, Then It’s Changed to “Spicer: Judge Hardiman didn’t drive to DC”
• #FakeNews Politico Reports and others copy false story that “Steven Mnuchin’s OneWest filed to take a 90-year-old woman’s house after a 27-cent payment error.”
• CNN aired during Jake Tapper’s broadcast a fake National Enquirer cover that was never actually on the National Enquirer Cover
• CNN Senior WH Correspondent Tweets Fake News that “White House is setting up Supreme Court announcement as a prime-time contest” based on looking at Fake Twitter Accounts
• CNN’s Jake Tapper says that “his source” told him the Boston Marathon bomber was “a dark-skinned male”, later CNN reported that a suspect had been arrested. All False.
• CNN uses Reuters staged footage of Palestinian victim
• Hoax: CNN and Huffington Post both report on fake story of investment banker who left a one percent tip at a restaurant
• CNN edits ordinary citizens response to question about illegal voting
• CNN Caught Staging Fake News to Show Muslim Support After London Attacks
• CNN’s Chris Cuomo lies to his viewers and tells them that it’s only legal for the media to view wikileaks emails
• CNN Host Is Upset Voter Panel Doesn’t Believe Her Story, But Instead Think Obama Said “Undocumented Citizens” Can Vote. CNN Claims Fox Deceptively Edited Obama Interview (They Didn’t) Obama Actually Didn’t Correct the Questioner Who Asked Him About “Undocumented Citizens” Voting. Watch the Video Here.
• CNN Deceptively Edits AG Nominee Jeff Sessions Confirmation Testimony
• Three CNN employees resign over retracted fake story on Trump – Russia ties
• Two Palestinian men entered Jerusalem synagogue and attacked the praying congregants with axes, knives, and a gun, killing several people. CNN reports “Israeli Govt. Radio: Police Shot, Killed 2 Palestinians”.
• Claims “sources” tell CNN that Comey to testify that he never told Trump he wasn’t under investigation. Comey then testified that he did tell Trump 3 times he wasn’t under investigation.
• Clickbait Alert: “Trump vs. Kim: A fight the US President can’t win” THEN 6 DAYS LATER “Trump’s North Korea policy might just be working”
• CNN Political commentator, Sally Kohn, tweet that Democrats never used the “Nuclear Option.”
• CNN reporter Jim Acosta claims source told him that Pres. Trump didn’t meet with Scalise in hospital, before having to correct his lie.
• CNN claims everyone should have paid family leave, then Trump budget includes paid family leave, then writes how paid family leave hurts women.
• CNN backpedals and claims no media outlet is saying Trump/Putin discussion was secret. Watch clips of CNN saying they had secret meetings. (It wasn’t secret)
• CNN & MSNBC Claim Same Person is Live on the Air on Both Stations at the Same Time!!!
• CNN Cuts Feed when Obamcare Use Starts to Share Critical Story
• NO VETTING: TIME, NY Mag, Fox 2 Detroit, & CNN Report Mother Died After Trump Travel Ban, But In Reality She Died 5 Days Before
• CNN banned from Iran after misquoting president. Iranian State Media complained to CNN that they had used the translation “nuclear weapons” instead of “nuclear technology”.
• Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, during a CNN interview, refused answer specifically about the holocaust and says he is not a historian, but generally condemned violence against all people. CNN then runs the headline “Iran’s New President: Yes, the Holocaust Happened.”
• CNN edited Wrestler John Cena’s responses to make it seem as if he wouldn’t deny using steroids, while leaving room open for doubt that he did. His actual answer to the CNN interviewer’s initial query of “Have you ever taken steroids?” was, “Absolutely not.”
• Questioner at 2008 CNN GOP Debate was a member of a Clinton Campaign Committee.
• CNN Reports US Secret Service Source Told them the Secret Service Spoke to Trump Campaign about his 2nd Amendment Comments
• CNN Pushes the Widely Debunked “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” Narrative (Ferguson)
• CNN’s Cuomo To Obama’s Education Secretary: CNN will ‘shame’ Congress into Accepting your Plan
• CNN Reports on Ghana Election; Story is Riddled with False Statements. Claim Ghanians struggle to obtain food & day-to-day services. Have rolling blackouts and often stand in long lines to obtain products.
• CNN Falsely Labels the Metal Band Hatebreed as “White Power Music”.
• CNN Falls for Fake News About CNN, Apologizes for Airing Porn it Never Aired
• CNN’s Brian Stelter Falls for Fake News, Promotes YouTube Prankster Adam Saleh’s Hoax Video Of Getting Kicked Off Delta Plane For Speaking Arabic
• CNN Reports on ‘ISIS Flag’ at Gay Pride Parade; Flag Depicts Dildos & Buttplugs
• CNN Claims a US Official Briefed on the Matter said Russia Ordered the Closure of the Anglo-American School of Moscow in Response to Sanctions.
• Husband of Vice President for CNN, Virginia Carpenter Moseley, Tipped Clinton Campaign Off to Network’s Polls Prior to Release. Collusion.
• CNN’s Dan Merica: Nothing to see in Wikileaks emails. Emails reveal Dan Merica worked to help political campaign.
• CNN edits out Clinton reference to NY explosion as a “bombing” & attacks Trump for saying a bomb when off in NY (a bomb went off in NY)
• CNN Claims “Howard Stern says Trump backed Iraq War in 2002” (He Didn’t)
• CNN & Washington Post Claim Bill Clinton Didn’t Sign NAFTA Into Law. Inaccurate & Disingenuous Word Play.
• CNN Edits Trumps Answer To Claim He Said He Would “Absolutely” Create Muslim Registry, When He Said He Would Absolutely Build A Border Wall
• CNN Cuts Off CNN Reporter After She Mentions Hillary Clinton’s Support For Unpopular Anti-Crime Legislation
• CNN Cuts Off Muslim Woman for Saying Things About Islam that CNN Doesn’t Like
• Media Reports State Department Employees Quit En Masse Because of Trump. (They Didn’t Quit, They Were Fired.)
• CNN Hypocrisy: CNN fat shamed Alicia Machado in 1997
• Asking Clinton Campaign For Questions For CNN Wolf Blitzer’s Interview With Trump
• CNN former contributor and interim DNC chair Donna Brazile sharing questions with the Clinton campaign before a debate and a town hall during the Democratic primary
• CNN’s Chris Cuomo Says About Clinton Campaign: “We couldn’t help her any more than we have, she’s got just a free ride so far from the media, we’re the biggest ones promoting her campaign, so it had better happen.”
• CNN: “Trump Used Knife, Fork To Eat Fried Chicken On Private Plane” (Pathetic Excuse For A Reputable News Station)
• CNN “Loses The Feed” During Interview with Bernie Sanders After He Jokings Calls Them Fake News
• CNN cuts satellite feed as soon as WikiLeaks is mentioned by Congressman Collins
• “Instead of watch-dogging governments around the world, CNN is earning money from them, producing what might as well be called ‘Infomercials for Dictators’, sponsored shows and content that cast a positive light on some of the world’s most oppressive regimes.” – Former CNN correspondent Amber Lyon
• CNN Feed Coincidentally Drops When Ron Paul Supporter and U.S. Army Corporal Starts Talking About Preferring A Candidate That Advocated For Fighting Less Wars (2011)
• CNN edits out section of Ron Paul interview to give the appearance of walking out on interview
• CNN Creates False Quote
• Hospital CEO Wins Major Court Victory After Accusing CNN of False Reporting (Feb 17 2017)
• CNN/HLN Blurs T-shirt of Political Candidate that they don’t like (2016)
• CNN Airs Edited Video Of Charlotte Shooting To Make It Look Unjustified
• CNN adds the word “racial” to Trump’s quote.
• CNN Stealth Edits Article That Originally Made False Claim Trump Told Supporters To Vote Multiple Times
• CNN: “What we know about Donald Trumps Health”. 43 hours later… “Why a presidential candidate’s health isn’t a voter’s right to know.”
• CNN Host Tells Woman In Focus Group How to Answer Their Question
• CNN Interviews Man About Election Results. Turns Out To Be CNN Cameraman. The CNN Edits The Embarrassing Part Part Out When It Uploads It To Youtube!
• CNN commentator called Julian Assange a “pedophile”
• CNN @AnaCabrera Edits Out Kimberly Neal’s Call For Violence
• CNN dropped the word “crooked” from a graphic quoting a Donald Trump tweet about Hillary’s health.
• CNN’s Anderson Cooper & Don Lemon Falsely Deny that Hillary Clinton Laughed in a Tape Over a 12 Year-Old Rape Victim
• CNN Split Screen Interview in SAME Parking Lot
• CNN “It’s illegal to possess stolen documents. It’s different for the media.” (10-16-2016)
• Undercover Audio: CNN staffer says “you can play with (a quote)” and it doesn’t matter if it’s exactly what the source said.
• NO VETTING: CNN’s Fredricka Whitfield Prank Called by Prankster “Captain Janks”
• NO VETTING: “Captain Janks” Prank Calls Wolf Blitzer On CNN
• NO VETTING: “Captain Janks” Prank Calls CNN’s Carol Costello
• CNN: Claims Prime Minister’s wife was alone because Melania Trump is living in NYC while son finishes school year.
• CNN #FakeNews: “Nancy Sinatra is not happy Trump will use her father’s song at #inaugration”
• MSM: Trump suggests Veterans with PTSD aren’t “Strong”, “Can’t handle it”

/QUOTE]


Like I asked techlady, where do you get your fake news from so we can examine further?

Like I asked techlady, where do you get your fake news from so we can examine further?

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Why is it so damn important that this be terrorism? People seem to be going out the way to try and tie this to real terrorism.

Why do you make things up? Like I already said. It is too premature to make definitive claims. In fact I admit time could prove your rush to judgement to be correct. Time will tell.

 

[nlinecomputers]

So based on the trivial list of evidence techlady provided and you just confirmed, infowars must comparatively have a stellar record and must be by definition the most trusted news source on the planet.

No, I dismissed Alex Jones about 20 years ago. His M.O. is simple. Take any event and propose the most outlandish scenario possible. Every event is a conspiracy to this guy. Odds are that he has to be right about some things, he can't be right about all of them, or even most of them.

 

[alluseridsrejected]

No, I dismissed Alex Jones about 20 years ago. His M.O. is simple. Take any event and propose the most outlandish scenario possible. Every event is a conspiracy to this guy. Odds are that he has to be right about some things, he can't be right about all of them, or even most of them.

You could just as well be talking about CNN...

 

[TechLady]

Back to the topic at hand: How to Prevent Gun Deaths? Where Experts and the Public Agree

 

[nlinecomputers]

OK, we've had the pro- and anti-Second Amendment discussion, we've had the baseless (or at least unsupported) assertions from both sides, and now we've reached the ad hominem stage.

Could somebody please mention Hitler so we can get this thread shut down?

Topic nazi! LOL

 

[Bryce W]

I won't comment so much on gun control, America grew up in a unique way where I don't believe us Australians and British can say too much beyond "it worked for us".
The US is a unique situation.

What I will comment on is mental health and media. I do believe a lot of these people aren't getting the help they need, America is one of the only first world countries that doesn't have universal healthcare. The system probably wouldn't have been able to help them all, but I feel a few of the shootings might not have happened with good accessibility to care.

Something I find crazy as an outsider is how American media covers these shooters.

MASSACRE! Stephan Paddock! 58 KILLED! 489 WOUNDED! NEW HIGH SCORE! DING! DING! DING!
*Shows the shooters face for weeks*

The American media makes them famous and these guys want to go down in history as famous. It encourages new crazies to do the same.

I can name a number of American shooters but I can only think of one Australian one, who was the one who triggered our gun crackdown.

Australian media when talking about them only refer to "the shooter", rather than their name. I've been to the place of the Australian massacre and they don't even mention anything about the event other than a small plaque commemorating the victims (the location was historically interesting before the shooting).

I really think American media needs to change.

 

[TAPtech]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: How to Prevent Gun Deaths? Where Experts and the Public Agree

That chart makes a lot of sense to me. I have to say most of the items on the right are pretty logical. My main issue is just the general theme here though, we really need to find commonality between all of these attacks to look for real solutions. I went to Sandy Hook Elementary as a kid, that **** affects me on a personal level. Believe me, if I thought banning all fire arms would stop that violence for good, I would be on board. It isn't even about retaining freedoms, which I find to be critical. I just don't think banning firearms altogether would stop those crazy people from inflicting damage some way or another. The violent act is the problem, not the tool used.

 

[TAPtech]

I won't comment so much on gun control, America grew up in a unique way where I don't believe us Australians and British can say too much beyond "it worked for us".
The US is a unique situation.

What I will comment on is mental health and media. I do believe a lot of these people aren't getting the help they need, America is one of the only first world countries that doesn't have universal healthcare. The system probably wouldn't have been able to help them all, but I feel a few of the shootings might not have happened with good accessibility to care.

Something I find crazy as an outsider is how American media covers these shooters.

MASSACRE! Stephan Paddock! 58 KILLED! 489 WOUNDED! NEW HIGH SCORE! DING! DING! DING!
*Shows the shooters face for weeks*

The American media makes them famous and these guys want to go down in history as famous. It encourages new crazies to do the same.

I can name a number of American shooters but I can only think of one Australian one, who was the one who triggered our gun crackdown.

Australian media when talking about them only refer to "the shooter", rather than their name. I've been to the place of the Australian massacre and they don't even mention anything about the event other than a small plaque commemorating the victims (the location was historically interesting before the shooting).

I really think American media needs to change.

I couldn't agree with you more. The media has had a terrible role to play in our culture and political spectrum. It seems like trueing up the FCC and reeling that stuff in would be a good move. I don't think these places should even be allowed to call themselves " News Entertainment".

 

[TechLady]

What I will comment on is mental health and media. I do believe a lot of these people aren't getting the help they need, America is one of the only first world countries that doesn't have universal healthcare. The system probably wouldn't have been able to help them all, but I feel a few of the shootings might not have happened with good accessibility to care.

Could not agree more. Access to mental health care slowly became obliterated in this country at the same time restrictions on deadly weapons also got obliterated (i.e. the federal assault rifle ban that expired in 2004). Clearly, this is a very bad combination. And our completely broken medical care system is nothing short of shameful.

Something I find crazy as an outsider is how American media covers these shooters. I really think American media needs to change.

Also agree. Since we have no real public service broadcasting channels or anything like the BBC, our corporate overlords have decided to simply go with whatever sells. Turns out sex and death sells. This is where the "invisible hand of the free market" determines what should get shoved in our faces, and we have a lot of people that don't seem to realize this is what they're voting for when they vote with the party that is all about privatization.

I don't think a complete ban on all guns is ever going to happen, or even possible. I get it. But I do think we need some significant policy changes. I think it's very obvious everything we're doing now isn't working (which happens to be pretty close to nothing). Lots of gun owners are finally getting fed up with our non-stop massacres and insane gun policies, too. Pretty enlightened take here, by a woman who's been a lifelong gun owner: I Am A Gun Owner, And Here Are 8 Things I Have To Say About Gun Control. It's a quick read, and the author is a gun owner herself and does believe in the home protection argument.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Guys, can we please keep any and all personal attacks away from this thread, and this forum completely.

thank you.