Should we be regulated?

[frederick]

I was discussing this with a good friend of mine today, who is not in the IT industry, but is actually in the PR world. We were talking "shop" if you will, and he asked me "do you guys have any government oversight or licensing requirements?" I told him no, just a Transaction Privileged Tax (TPT) License and you are good to go. And this got the ol' hamster in my noodle noggin to wake up and drink some coffee. I thought to myself, 'we should be regulated to a certain extent'. Now, don't go bashing me just yet, read-me-out. What separates the men from the boys (or the women from the girls)? What says "I'm serious about what I do" more than anything? Some type of licensing at a minimum.

This is stolen a little bit from the General Contractors licensing requirements. The business owner, as a requirement, must take an exam on "business practices" and governing laws associated with running a business. This makes more for a Generic Business License w/ some IT thrown in:

• Business Management
• Licensing Laws and Rules
• Insurance & Bonding
• Estimating, Bidding, Contracts & Agreements
• Project Management
  
• Safety, Record Keeping & Reporting
• Labor Laws & Employment Regulations (even for a 1-man shop)
• Financial Management
• Tax Laws
• Liens
• Environmental Laws & Regulations
• GNU General Public License (GPL3), EUPL (Europe), OSL, CPL, EPL, etc. (other Public Licensing)
  
• Generic EULA understanding
• Copyright / Copy Protection / Digital Rights Management
• Warranties & Guarantees (depending on local/state/federal laws)

Granted, the IT side of it all is legalities. But given many fly-by-night pizza techs don't care about this kind of stuff (I didn't say all, but I did say many), this would require that businesses, at a minimum, understand the basics of the laws and what it means to violate.

After they pass the exam, now the business needs to provide things like Workers Compensation Insurance (if you got employees...or don't), and require a bond and/or other adequate insurance that covers your mistakes when working with peoples computers. This exam should be once, as long as you remain in good standing, every few years. But each year you must pay the licensing fee, plus show proof of bonding/insurance, show how many employees you have, and that those required have met the requirements.

From there, there should be several sub-categories, depending on what your business gets involved with, just like being a contractor and the different trades.

• IT Security/Compliance
  • This pertains more to those who work with anyone who needs to or has clients who have to follow government compliance, such as HIPAA, Data-Breach Laws, PCI-DSS, etc. The person who takes this exam can either be the business owner, or a person in the company not the owner who directly handles these. There should be a covering of what the company has to do on their end when handling companies and clients who fall under these compliance requirements.
    
  • The employer/business owner and/or a certain number of employees should also be trained in things like HIPAA, PCI-DSS, etc., best practices along with this in order to qualify for this license.
• General IT
  • The business owner should be required to either have a Business Management Degree or an IT degree or certain IT certifications or at least 2-3 years of experience.
  • Technical staff should be "qualified" in some way. Either an IT degree or certain IT certifications or at least 2-3 years experience.
  • You could say this sub-category is basically a bare-minimum requirement.
• IT Engineering
  • OUTSIDE OF anything that might fall under your Low Voltage licensing requirements. If your business does things like design, implement and install whole networks (to include AP's, servers, workstations, etc.), server migrations, software engineering/computer programming, etc. The larger projects if you will. This one could be broken down based on which part of the engineering scheme you are doing, and certain persons should be tested on best-practices.
  • Only those individuals who lead or are responsible for these processes should have to meet the requirements:
    • Licensing Exam
    • 3 to 4-years experience
    • Applicable IT degree or certain IT certifications

I'm sure it can be broken down more, and more could be added. But this is all I have thought up so far. Now don't shoot it down just yet. If you are a legitimate business, and doing well enough to support your own, then the costs of licensing shouldn't hurt you too bad. You pay for the exam(s) like you would for any certification or licensing. The local/state government makes a couple hundred bucks. And chances are the fly-by-night pizza techs won't take the time to do any of this. Other than that, I look at this as taking one more step for best-practices not just being hot air coming out of someones mouth, but actually being put to "practice". There are still going to be people who make mistakes, can't fix X or Y and created Z problem. But if licensing can be used to enforce standards, promote people to be more than "I saw on google..." and get actual training, education and certifications, then it can only help our industry be more on the side of doing right by our clients and not just a pizza-techs wallet.

Comments? Opinions?

 

[Mercenary Roadie]

Some states like California require anyone who works on Residential electronics equipment or appliances to be registered with the state. Most don't though, but if your caught the fine can be rather large.

 

[frederick]

Makes sense. When talking about peoples personal information, and you making a profit for having access to it, being registered with the state is a way of saying that you are in the public's eyes, and therefore you should probably do the right thing.

 

[sapphirescales]

No. The government ruins absolutely everything it sticks its nose into. No license should be REQUIRED to be able to do anything. People should be able to make their own decisions. Not even a doctor should have to be licensed. I would certainly never visit an unlicensed doctor, but it's the choice of the people whether they want to work with someone that's licensed or not. The free market will decide. Obviously doctors would pretty much have to be licensed (because no one would go to one that wasn't). But the government requiring all these things limits individual freedom. We don't need a nanny state.

 

[TCG]

Government regulation = Taxes masqueraded as "fees" and does not improve anything. Just because someone is able to pay their "fees" and pass some exams, doesn't make them a better tech, there are plenty of people with college degrees who are still dumb as rocks. The unlicensed techs will still operate because people will want lower cost IT services, just as you have plenty of unlicensed contractors still working. The other scenario is a tech who cant pass the tests will pay a licensed tech to use their license, just as many contractors do. Government regulation opens the door for all sorts of fraud.

BTW, this silly CA registration (BEAR), it means NOTHING!, its simply another way for the government to get it's share of YOUR money. Anyone who can come up with $165 a year gets to register.

"If you are a legitimate business, and doing well enough to support your own, then the costs of licensing shouldn't hurt you too bad" this part really makes my head spin, as a business owner why on earth would you want to turn over even more of your hard earned profit to the government??? I don't care if its only $100 a year, I'd rather use that money for a nice meal out.

this is all akin to gun control, it'll only affect the honest law abiding people, the others will continue doing business as usual.

All that being said, I will say that I do respect that in your thought process you stated that experience would count in lieu of a degree or certification.

 

[JustInspired]

Government regulation = Taxes masqueraded as "fees" and does not improve anything. Just because someone is able to pay their "fees" and pass some exams, doesn't make them a better tech, there are plenty of people with college degrees who are still dumb as rocks. The unlicensed techs will still operate because people will want lower cost IT services, just as you have plenty of unlicensed contractors still working. The other scenario is a tech who cant pass the tests will pay a licensed tech to use their license, just as many contractors do. Government regulation opens the door for all sorts of fraud.

^^^ This is how I feel about it too.
In theory, it's great. However, in practice, it's a huge can of worms.

My wife is in the beauty business and she is one of the people who is pushing hard for the beauty business to be regulated in the UK. This is because it's not all about drawing eyebrows on people anymore; there are many treatments now which border on the realms of medical which have the possibility to do real harm. Not to mention things like hygiene and proper disposal of biohazardous waste.
The latter is somewhat regulated by various councils much like tattoo artists are supposed to be licensed.

The problem is policing the people doing the work and often, (here in the UK) the body that gets set up to regulate is a self appointed, money making joke who dream up all manner of ways to get a percentage of your hard earned cash.

 

[citizensmith]

^^^ This is how I feel about it too.
In theory, it's great. However, in practice, it's a huge can of worms.
/snip/
The problem is policing the people doing the work and often, (here in the UK) the body that gets set up to regulate is a self appointed, money making joke who dream up all manner of ways to get a percentage of your hard earned cash.

Everything ^^ he says. Who decides what is the required standard of skillz ? Look at mess of esential "MS" certs - we have time served, school of life techs & those who learned from a course / book here. Are we not all techs? Its not like IT is going to kill someone if you screw up - Not like water hygene, sparkies or gas fitters
Don't need another darn QUANGO telling us what to know, how to do it and how much to pay

 

[PCSupportGlasgow]

I have thought about this lots of times.

Regulation as stated will just add extra fees to those of us who are legit and simply be ignored by the cowboys.

Also as been stated regulatory bodies often start with good intentions but mostly become legislative toothless, legislation bloated, and jobs for "the boys*


Sad to say but probably the only way to sort things out is via the media and Like or loathe the big box stores those companies are the only ones with the funds to drive it home to the public that not all techs are equal (yes I see the irony) and can they trust private data with just about anyone . Personally with the savie or and advertising execs they employ I'm surprised none of them has went down that route.

Then again I'm a firm believer that fly by nights (not just in our industry) could be wiped out fairly quickly by the search engines, the taxman, local government.. I better explain..

1 search engines
a) lower the weighting of directory sites - so many just so out of date and filled with junk defunct companies.
b) local business listings/ maps - eggoogle local, bing local,etc - must be updated yearly and have actual landline number ( no mobile), physical address listed, yes I know they either send card or automated call but once registered they never seem to remove the deadwood.


2 Taxman -
quick search of Gumtree, Craiglist, etc will bring up loads openly advertising thus simple reference against those legitimately listed for tax and a visit to the others will soon bring most to an end especially as most of them working from home so will not exactly be hard to find.


This one probably won't go down well with members but it not anti home business, its anti pay no tax non legit home business.
3) Local government
Home based businesses have some of the same regulations as offices/retail.
Work from hone you must register with the city.
Simple ones like commercial waste eg business from home you pay for waste uplift like other businesses do. Again most cities already have departments already dedicated to going around visiting businesses so not extra expense )Eg my city you simply buy a batch of commercial waste bin bags and they collected with the normal trash collection.
Start charging flyposters with fines. - so fed up seeing these same adverts at every set of traffic lights, when legit companies struggle to find advertising space at reasonable cost.


Now the above won't totally kill the pizza brigade but will give those legit a better fighting chance. Starve them of their advertising and let them go back to friend of a friend type is the only way to go.

 

[Kitten Kong]

Instead of being regulated by any government, I think we should be self regulated.

Some kind of trade body, a list whereby each 'tech' is on, clients can check this database to see if their chosen tech is included. Know that they have the simple things like insurance, how much it covers, if in California, a bear licence, low voltage licence, hippa, PCI, data compliance and the likes.

Exams backed up by actual physical experience of repairing x,y,z. IE servers, laptops, phones etc. exams being written, oral and physical. So if you claim you can rebuild a laptop, then you display the steps to actually do it. Without having to resort to checking on Google each step.

The full database be available and be upkept by the trade body. Who regularly check that joe bloggs is up to date with (insert here). If they are not, or have listed they are competent on laptops, when they can only swap a memory stick over, then get fined by the trade body. And removed by the body until such time as they are more competent.

The body being a kind of additional insurance for the client. The fines and 'premiums' being used, for the body to physically check joe bloggs out etc. basically a not for profit body.

There is such a huge minefield out there with all the issues, ie hippa, Dss compliance, insurance, tax, workers comp, data compliance.how is Mr smith from any town supposed to know that ole joe at 999 any St, is good with laptops, when all he has to go on is either a website, or a ad in a newspaper / Craigslist etc. if there was this recognised body, which has a fully updated database of techs from their area, it's a a simple matter of just checking the site to see if what they are looking for is covered by X.

Crikey I could say I'm a whizz with servers, and aim for thr big bucks. When in fact servers scare the living doo lies out of me.. I certainly wouldn't touch one in the real world till I had some experience on working on them.

Obviously there's a heck of a lot more involved in this than we can put together in a forum thread, but some good ideas are coming out.

 

[citizensmith]

Wow.
Just Wow.
Another database.
Like the "Gun control register" that works oh so well in the UK.
What next regulation of "Vision Technicians"
No thanks.
I'd vote for pay the taxman, comply with local red tape, do a good job and have insurance.

 

[coffee]

I have always been pro open market. I really believe that the open market solves its own problems. The only time that you really encounter problems is when the government gets involved.

When you have a free and open market then all the problems are pretty much taken care of and self-governed in its own way. Its fast and efficient. In the case where you have bad pizza techs doing poor work - The market weeds them out. When the government gets involved and wants to regulate some market then your going to experience some rather odd behavior in that market.

1. Costs go up. It costs more to do business in that market because of new taxes, Licensing fees and other regulation.

2. Problems within that market do not get solved as readily and other problems arise that would never have happened all because of government interference.

3. As the government sets up more regulations to "fix" problems they perceive in the market, It begins to kill off competition and begins to form a barrier to new business. This is the beginning of a monopoly in a market.

4. Customer service begins to suffer because companies that should go out of business because of poor service are supported by the government and its regulations.

 

[frederick]

I want to say thank you to those who have replied for your comments, and opinions.

Obviously there's a heck of a lot more involved in this than we can put together in a forum thread, but some good ideas are coming out.

I agree, there is a lot more involved than can be put together in a forum thread, but it's a start.

Instead of being regulated by any government, I think we should be self regulated.

I know CompTIA has done a lot in this respect with their trustmarks. And I think this is a step towards self-regulating. Self-regulating might be a better approach than my proposed government regulation. So the issue becomes, how do we take this and support it so that it becomes something like the American Medical Association or the National Association of Realtors? Would already set organizations like ACRBO or ASCII become more involved and promote businesses to become CompTIA Trustmark certified? Would they also work with CompTIA to maintain and reform the trustmark requirements, as well as the regulating? Would there be an equal push to publicly promote this so people knew it existed?

Just because someone is able to pay their "fees" and pass some exams, doesn't make them a better tech, there are plenty of people with college degrees who are still dumb as rocks.

I'm not presenting this to say that this would make them better techs. Much like how the construction businesses are regulated, they are tested on whether or not the know the difference between what is the right way and what is the wrong way. There are still terrible construction companies who are licensed, and even with some kind of IT regulation, there will still be bad technicians. If you took the steps to become licensed, and passed the exams, then you have demonstrated that you have the knowledge to do the job correctly. Now whether or not you correctly apply that knowledge is different. This is where they will find themselves in trouble, and learn that maybe they aren't as good as they thought they were as they are sitting in claims court looking at their pocket book going "I don't have $XXX to refund this guy his money and pay for the damages, and pay the fines". It would help enforce techs to do the right thing, and greatly weed out those who do more damage than good. Like going through someones personal photos on their computer and posting them on the web like some big box store employees have done.

All that being said, I will say that I do respect that in your thought process you stated that experience would count in lieu of a degree or certification.

In this industry, we all come from different backgrounds, much like other industries. In my own opinion, I believe my degree gave me a basic, perfect world background theory to work off of. I really learned that when I was in the military and doing Satellite and Wireless Telecommunications. The knowledge my degree gave me wasn't enough to handle real-world scenarios, but because I had the perfect-world theory down, it made it so much easier to self-learn the real-world practical. I believe that without my degree, I could have still learned the perfect-world theory in satellite and wireless telecommunications. It might have taken me longer, there would have been more trial and error, but I would have learned it either way. Certifications and college degrees are nothing more than perfect-world scenarios, the theory behind the actual. I have nothing against the self-taught, if anything, I think they know more about the difference between what not to do and what to do because they made all those mistakes. They are essential to the advancement of technology, and the maintenance of it as well.

Those with degrees and certifications, combined with experience, make for as equally powerful technicians. But they didn't have as much trial and error as the self-taught only technicians. Nothing wrong with that, but combined with self-taught, the two balance each other out, and can create an unstoppable force if put to work properly.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Licenses come about because of the perceived danger to the public of not having them. Electricians and Plumbers get licensed because errors on their part can cost lives. Ex: Electrical fires or having sewage backing up into other peoples homes. There is very little that computer techs really do that could cause genuine public harm. Nor are there really any set standards that must be followed whose failure would cost human lives. Not grounding an electrical circuit can cause a fire and there really is only a few set methods of doing that. A password checking routine can be written from scratch a thousand different ways, using a variety of programing languages, for an ever changing wide spectrum of devices. Just HOW are you supposed to do regulate that?

So IMO not only should there not be licenses I defy that anyone could properly setup a method that could be enforced.

 

[Paul Rodgers]

Forming an LLC in NY is expensive enough. The reasoning is because it is so easy to setup an LLC the state thinks that the public should be informed about owners and has a publication requirement in two separate newspapers. Hell I can't legally touch cameras as a business without jumping through the hoops to become an alarm installer. I'm just connecting devices to a network and doing the configuration.

Regulation is a barrier to entry and should only be used on industries that are 100% anti-consumer. Otherwise they protect the entrenched players.

 

[AndyM]

Me: Well as you can see from all the certificates, I have an MCSA, MCSE for SharePoint, MCSE for Private Cloud, MCSE for Communication, MCSE for Desktop Infrastructure, MCP, CCNA, CCNP, CCSE, CCIE, etc etc...

Customer: What the heck are those?

Andy

 

[nlinecomputers]

Me: Well as you can see from all the certificates, I have an MCSA, MCSE for SharePoint, MCSE for Private Cloud, MCSE for Communication, MCSE for Desktop Infrastructure, MCP, CCNA, CCNP, CCSE, CCIE, etc etc...

Customer: What the heck are those?

Andy

Which is a great way of making my point. An Automotive Tech has only one real certification. The tech world has so many that few realize the value of them. Which in turn harms the value of them.

 

[Markverhyden]

There is that old saying - "be careful what you wish for". Remember that once the government has decided to regulate something everyone else has lost control of the process and outcome.

 

[altrenda]

Regulation is a barrier to entry and should only be used on industries that are 100% anti-consumer. Otherwise they protect the entrenched players.

This. Most certifications and licenses are designed to insure scarcity to keep competition low, and to provide income to the state.

 

[frederick]

Me: Well as you can see from all the certificates, I have an MCSA, MCSE for SharePoint, MCSE for Private Cloud, MCSE for Communication, MCSE for Desktop Infrastructure, MCP, CCNA, CCNP, CCSE, CCIE, etc etc...

Customer: What the heck are those?

Andy

The same could be said about me saying I have an Electronic and Electrical Engineering degree, with my focus on Secured Satellite and Wireless Telecommunications and Networking. Would that mean anything to the customer? NOPE! When I'm asked what my degree is, and I say "Electronic and Electrical Engineering", they immediately think I'm a cable jockey electrician and not actually a systems and network person. Either way, it means nothing to them.

Taking it back to the contracting world for another example, if someone told you they are a Journeyman Lightweight, Pre-Cast Concrete Contractor, what does that mean to you? Absolutely nothing, other than, they do something with concrete.

You are taking what I'm saying and trying to apply it to use towards a customer. Rather than what I said, applying it to a governing/regulatory body, who with help of hired specialists and experts, would know what those certifications are, and what they mean about what you should know. Don't spin this stuff. I'm not talking about how you present yourself to the customer, I'm talking about how we should be regulated or governed.

 

[frederick]

There is that old saying - "be careful what you wish for". Remember that once the government has decided to regulate something everyone else has lost control of the process and outcome.

I agree and disagree. When the government steps in, the people shouldn't step out. They should continue to monitor the government, and work with them to ensure the policies and regulations set forth maintain a certain process and outcome that was envisioned in the original implementation. When the people step out, the government can go unchecked and create tighter restrictions and increase government control. However, if those in the industry maintain a level of presence and participation with the government on the issues that affect their industry/business, you can leverage some control over how the laws are created and implemented.

I don't believe in big government, but I do believe that the government is supposed to protect the people, and businesses. Businesses come in many types, some are out to hurt those they provide services to, and others are there to do good while still making a profit. I believe in a regulated free-market, where businesses and industries are regulated either by self-regulation or by government-regulation.

Some of you have brought up that regulations are designed to keep people from being harmed. Let me remind you, we are in a business of having unlimited, or nearly unlimited access to peoples personal information, to include bank accounts, tax and social security information, as well as other personal information they don't want released. What really keeps the "honest" honest? Should Johnny, who goes through peoples computers while he works on them, selling personal information on the side, be allowed to continue performing his services? Or, through some type of regulation be banned from the industry because of his mis-deeds, and fined because he sold peoples personal information. While there may be Data-Breach laws in place, not every state has them. So the consumer is left to the court system to sue Johnny for damages, and let him continue doing his own thing. Depending on the local laws, this could occur.