Should we be regulated?

[frederick]

Coffee, I appreciate your feedback. So how do or should we go about it?

 

[coffee]

Coffee, I appreciate your feedback. So how do or should we go about it?

We are techs. We do our job and if we do it well we get more business. If we do a poor job then we go out of business. Thats how I would regulate the industry. The question is really "Why do we need regulation?".

There are good doctors, bad doctors. There are good Auto Mechanics and Bad Auto Mechanics. These industries are regulated but it does nothing in preventing poor service. In a college class it sound all nice and pretty. However, In the real world it is much different. The only benefit from regulation is more of our money being funnelled to the government and higher costs for goods and services. Companies pass their costs on to the consumer. Therefore you end up paying more for a product domestically. Then it becomes cheaper to get the goods and services from another foreign company that is not regulated.

The real problem I think as per "Why everyone wants government regulation" is that companies find ways to skirt the laws and continue functioning even though they provide poor service. Simply put, Some companies seem to be above the law. They funnel alot of money into Washington D.C. to keep them in business and make sure the laws favor them.

Therefore, To answer your question, How I would regulate industries is simply to not bail them out when they run into trouble and also make sure that they suffer the consequences should they violate the law.

Regulation in the industry does little or nothing to thwart poor service. I know a lot of people argue this fact pointing to doctors in the medical field. However, They spend a lot of money and time in college and Med School. They have to complete residency work before they can actually go out on their own. Thats really how that industry is regulated. The government regulations on that industry really do not do that much to help you or I. Should a doctor screw up we still have to take them to court.

To name a few things here that would help:

1. Hold any company to the same set of rules that apply to you or me.
2. Penalize frivolous lawsuits.
3. Lobbying in Congress should be considered a crime and those involved should do heavy time.

Thank you,

 

[twincountycomputers]

I think regulation is a given, eventually, atleast here in the US. The problem with regulation though, is that it's useless if it's not enforced. In the electronic security business, we are regulated on the state level, and each state has it's own rules and fees. But basically it all boils down to money. The state agency very rarely "goes after" anyone with anything more threatening than a letter stating "get legal" (by paying our dues) and we will ignore your infraction.

 

[callthatgirl]

I'm all for a national business tech repair license or something. Even state level....but it's up to them to prove that a company is licensed to do business in that state or on a national level. I am now national....I would do what I have to.

 

[Paul Rodgers]

I am not opposed to self regulation. The internet has been doing that since its conception. What is so wrong is government regulation. The government makes a poor business partner. Look at things like healthcare, Amtrak, Social Security ect... The list is quite large. The reason the government is so poor as a business partner is because they have no vested interest in the dealings. Take the US Post Office system for example. They have continuously lost money and feed off our taxes to stay alive. Their service is not the best. When they lose money they simply get more from our tax dollars.

Self Regulation is the way to go.

USPS is failing because they are the only government agency that has to fund benefits for employees that haven't been born yet.

Social Security is failing because the government treated it as a slush fund and never paid the IOUs.

Look at what NASA did with the Mars rovers. They vastly exceeded the mission requirements.

The government is like any other business and suffers from mismanagement. Hell our elected officials can't even figure out the Bill of Rights.

 

[frederick]

Showing proof of your ability to do business shouldn't be costly. Again, a couple hundred dollars shouldn't break your account. If it does, then see one of my previous posts. But it should be used to demonstrate that a business owner or potential business owner understands the common aspects of the laws to do business. I believe in sales tax and what it is supposed to stand for, though it too is mismanaged numerous times.

When I was taking an economics class many moons ago, I was taught that sales taxes are supposed to be used to give back to the people. Maintaining roads/transportation, parks, education system, etc. Basically, the government is supposed to use it for the maintaining of the economy. Though, because of so many things being added on that siphon from the sales tax funds, it makes the money going around sometimes a little too sparse. Licensing of businesses, as I was taught, is used to collect economic support specific funds. But again, is managed.

Mismanagement of the government and government programs, to include the creation and amendment of laws, is not a problem of the elected officials, but rather the problem of the peoples. If you believe in big government, then in my opinion you generally don't care what the government does. If you believe is small government, then you generally care about what the government does. It's the peoples problem to ensure the government is kept on track as much as possible.

 

[coffee]

Iam running on only one cup of coffee so far this morning so pardon any spelling mistakes or mis-reads.

Showing proof of your ability to do business shouldn't be costly. Again, a couple hundred dollars shouldn't break your account.

To me 200.00 is alot of money. I am sure others feel that 200.00 is a lot of money too. If you need proof of one's ability to do business - well, Just staying in business should be proof enough. Those that do not show an ability to do business go out of business. That right there solves the problem.

When I was taking an economics class many moons ago, I was taught that sales taxes are supposed to be used to give back to the people. Maintaining roads/transportation, parks, education system, etc. Basically, the government is supposed to use it for the maintaining of the economy. Though, because of so many things being added on that siphon from the sales tax funds, it makes the money going around sometimes a little too sparse. Licensing of businesses, as I was taught, is used to collect economic support specific funds. But again, is managed.

Yes, When I was in college / School they taught us all these nifty things. However, When you get out of lah-lah land you find how things really run. Like a child, The government cannot handle money. They have no incentive to manage money properly and when they run out they just ask for more.

Mismanagement of the government and government programs, to include the creation and amendment of laws, is not a problem of the elected officials, but rather the problem of the peoples. If you believe in big government, then in my opinion you generally don't care what the government does. If you believe is small government, then you generally care about what the government does. It's the peoples problem to ensure the government is kept on track as much as possible.

I agree on the most part here. I believe in small government. The constitution has remedies for a government that is out of control and too big. However, When approx. 42 % of the people are getting some type of government assistance then its hard to vote them out of office.

You do not need government to run your life. You can do these things all on your own. You do not need licensing in our field either - IMHO. We do not have it now and it runs fine. If you start instituting a license nothing is going to change. You just end up giving more money to the government to waste. Anyone that deems the license fee to be too much of a barrier to enter the field will just not buy a license and just take the risk of not being caught. Besides, When the government starts collecting money to be licensed I, Like others, Will just push this expense off to the client. So, Instead of charging something like 60 dollars an hour I will start charging 70 an hour.

This whole thread is based on the idea of how to keep the bad people out of the market. This is not possible and you will always have bad businesses. The remedy is that people will not purchase goods or services from them as they will instead purchase the goods and services from the competition. The bad company goes out of business. If you really want to police the bad businesses then use the existing laws as they were ment to be instead of watering them down or not enforcing them.

 

[MDD1963]

I don't even understand the mindset of actually wishing for govt/state interference and regulations/licenses; I would imagine the few who do wish for it actually have degrees/ multiple certs, etc., and would simply like to do away with much of the competition by making what they already possess actual requirements. (Hard to imagine they are proposing it for the consumer's benefit, human nature being what it is...)

 

[Ed_Zipper]

Showing proof of your ability to do business shouldn't be costly. Again, a couple hundred dollars shouldn't break your account.

Showing proof of LIABILITY INSURANCE shouldn't be costly. Again, a couple hundred dollars shouldn't break your account

 

[ohio_grad_06]

I hope that the government never regulates this industry. It just seems when the government tries to regulate things, the little guys foot the bill. Look at the state where I'm from. I used to work for a school system and the idea was that lottery revenue in this state would be used to help the schools. A few years ago the state during budget cuts cut funding to the schools, I lost my job during that time. Yet still a lot of people gambling.

In fact they recently said they found that possibly health benefits were being paid to people who had died, maybe pensions as well.

I'll pay my taxes and my share, but I'm not for any new taxes or regulation and vote against any new tax levies in every election.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I don't even understand the mindset of actually wishing for govt/state interference and regulations/licenses; I would imagine the few who do wish for it actually have degrees/ multiple certs, etc., and would simply like to do away with much of the competition by making what they already possess actual requirements. (Hard to imagine they are proposing it for the consumer's benefit, human nature being what it is...)

Ding Ding Ding.

Have to agree 100% with this. And the thing that really bugs the OP is that while we all hate Pizza Techs many ARE siphoning away business. The problem isn't one of regulation. It is one of client education and marketing to the wrong demographic. If you are losing business to them then you are selling yourself to the wrong market and/or you have failed to demonstrate your proper value to your potential clients.

 

[ohio_grad_06]

I don't mind some of them. Then cheap customers stay away.

 

[vickie thivierge]

OH

Kool Forum topic....Hope I'm not too late to jump in on this one


Here Goes........I'm in total agreement with regulating the IT industry!


Now before those of you who are not start to blast me let me explain why.


First of all, 90% of all industries are regulated, Health care and hospitals, Banks, Insurance, Alarms companies, Real-estate companies, mortgage companies, Accountants, Attorney's....even hair salon's and tattoo parlors are regulated. So why should it be any different for IT?


As a consumer, I want regulations. I want to know that there are standards and rules of professional conduct. Also I want to know that the guy who just came out to my office and worked on my computers, which I've just blindly offered up my pass words too, isn't loading my network with some sort of spy ware while scoping out my office for a future robbery.


Let’s face it, most IT owners don't even do back ground checks on new employees....most owners are just happy to find someone who knows something about computers and will work for the salary they offer. If you do background checks you already know that you'll have to turn most of these applicants down due to bad driving history and /or past criminal history.....so why bother after all he's such a nice guy.....right....wrong!


And what about these offices that open up for a few months and then close....every wondered about them?


I'm sure we've all heard about that one guy...or one shop that rips people off....and he still doing it....right?


....and I'm tired of hearing about elderly people getting charged for expensive repairs on old XP computers.


Because we are not regulated..., If a shop does gets into trouble all they do is close one shop and reopen another in the next town.

More reasons for licensing:

Licensing establishes a professional and ethical environment for both the consumer as well as employees.

Licensing weeds out the "the YouTube educated cragslist guys" who steel your customer away offering cheap services

Licensing makes us accountable for your action, getting rid of the bad guys for good.

Licensing raises the standards of the IT professionals, creating an even playing filed for fair competition.​

I think those are excellent reasons ....don't you?

I'm adding one more argument for regulating out industry.

What I really don't understand is.., when a business is required by law to protect a clients information to the point that dozens for forms must be signed explaining why information is kept so private and that no one can have access to it......and then......they let some unknown friendly IT guy comes into that office and he or she is allowed to log onto the companies computer where everything about the company, the company's customers and employees is available to them....to do with as they please.....

....and no one knows that all their employees and customers names, addresses, SSI's numbers, credit cards information, Insurance information and medical history was just copied onto a thumb drive that day​

And what if this guy had a gambling problem and needed some extra case?


Just think about that for a while.

 

[allstarit]

For me regulating wont really achieve much - In other regulated industries you still have bad doctors, bad accountants, bad plumbers, bad electricians, bad mechanics ect.
Just because they passed an exam and are certified wont stop them from doing stupid things in their business or cutting corners.
Just because they passed the theory work doesn't meant they are good at the practical work

The way i see it is Pizza Techs keep us good techs in business and striving to succeed- How many of you have fixed up a mess from a pizza tech- I know i have and gained some great clients out of it.
If you do the best you can as a business owner and go the extra mile to please your customers you shouldn't even have to worry about being regulated. Take the time to work on your business and do the training your self to learn about new technology.
Dont even worry what other IT companies qualification are - as long as your doing a good job and train yourself and your staff to be better at what you do who really cares what everyone else is doing.

Cheap Pizza Techs attract Cheap customers and the ones that complain about everything- These are the customers you don't want as clients anyway so let the pizza techs have them.

The cream will always rise to the top

 

[vickie thivierge]

Exactly my point Allstarit,

If we had regulation and licensing that Pizza Tech wouldn't be here at all and that client would have contacted you in the first place instead of the last place.

And no, you can't stop people from doing stupid things....(can't fix stupid!)... with regulation it does offer protection for consumers who have been taken advantage by the bad doctor, accountants etc...as they can file a complaint and let the state agency go after them. If the offense is bad enough it would either force then to change there evil ways....or to move on to a new industry. With out regulation we have nothing......well....we still have expensive legal options.

As you said, if you do your best to take care of your customers, paying the a few extra dollars to create a regulatory agency to weed out the bad guys shouldn't bother you....in fact you should be thrilled. It's about maintaining and protecting the integrity of our business especially if you have paid for college and expensive certifications so you can do this job. Getting rid of the guys who simply learned a few tricks on YouTube who are claiming they are IT specialist should disturb you. And, folks, I'm not just talking about the Pizza techs here either, I'm talking about the BIG tech support business who'll hire anyone who claims they are a tech without checking backgrounds to service there out of state clients; making their decision on who will do the job based on who will accept the least amount of pay instead of who is best qualified. Charging a customer $500.00 an hour for a certified Cisco tech and than hiring some unknown tech at $60.00 a job to install a Cisco Switch for a hospital is criminal.....OK!

As for "Self-Trained" technicians.......really?

So...you would you let an unlicensed self-trained brain surgeon do brain surgery on one of your kids.....and that would be ok?

Clearly.....I have a lot of work to do.....am I just talking to myself here?

 

[nlinecomputers]

with regulation it does offer protection for consumers who have been taken advantage by the bad doctor, accountants etc...as they can file a complaint and let the state agency go after them.

HA HA HA HA. What naive tree did you fall out of? You know how difficult it is to get a doctor to lose his license? Short of criminal charges it almost never happens. It is one reason why malpractice insurance is so high. Doctors don't get government sanctions or fines leveled on them. There is no discipline from the government. Lawsuits are what govern the medical industry. Insurance for IT companies is relatively cheap. If the insurance industry doesn't see any fault with the IT industry how can you possibly regulate it? As I said WAY up thread. Regulations come from risk of harm to the public. And even personal data loss is only a monetary expense. Pay enough money the genie is back in the bottle. Under that kind of situation you really can't expect to ever have regulation. Lives are not at stake just because someone doesn't put up a good firewall.

 

[AliceKlaar]

I am a hands on self learner and also pay for my own continuing personal and professional development via University / MS / Cisco / SANS / whatever courses. I even took courses eg PRINCE / ITIL because that's the framework some of my clients used. Sometimes I had to take a cert just to prove I had the skills that I had previously self taught.
Having a selection of buzzword certs on your CV is nice. Unfortunately they do not indicate nor guarantee your ability to do the job. Remember how the 5 day and weekend boot camps undermined the status and credibility of the MCSE?

Who decides what is required?
Why do they get to decide?
What would be an "appropriate" level of knowledge ? A+ , a MS / Linux cert, Community college CompSci 101, CISSP?
Should there be non tech skills: Business studies 101 ?
Should it matter if I passed the exam by self study from a book or actually went to a college / approved trainer?
Would there be levels : desktop, networks, SME, contractors, sole traders

All this just to fix a pc ? Seems overkill compared to the unregulated field of computer forensics (ok some places want you to be a PI too)

@vickie thivierge : Much as I admire your passion and commitment, and respect your point of view, my only concern is maintaining and protecting the integrity of my business. I work with a diverse bunch of clients: some are regulated eg financial services, some are unregulated, and some operate outside of regulatory constraints. It's survival of the fittest out there, and I see no gain in yearning for an external agency to tell me what I already know.

 

[red12049]

HA HA HA HA. What naive tree did you fall out of? You know how difficult it is to get a doctor to lose his license? Short of criminal charges it almost never happens. It is one reason why malpractice insurance is so high. Doctors don't get government sanctions or fines leveled on them. There is no discipline from the government. Lawsuits are what govern the medical industry. Insurance for IT companies is relatively cheap. If the insurance industry doesn't see any fault with the IT industry how can you possibly regulate it? As I said WAY up thread. Regulations come from risk of harm to the public. And even personal data loss is only a monetary expense. Pay enough money the genie is back in the bottle. Under that kind of situation you really can't expect to ever have regulation. Lives are not at stake just because someone doesn't put up a good firewall.

Actually, regulation came about as a way to limit/eliminate competition. Those already practicing simply get government to do the job for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_licensing

Vickie, you should read ths.

Rick

 

[AliceKlaar]

Actually, regulation came about as a way to limit/eliminate competition. Those already practicing simply get government to do the job for them.

Nice one, Rick

 

[coffee]

Just remember that after regulation comes increased costs and they are passed on to the consumer. So, You get a regulated industry with higher costs and you still have the same situation of bad techs and good techs. Governments do not solve problems. The free and open economy solves the problem because the poor performing techs drop out of the market and the good ones stay on.

If you think the government is so great at providing for you then go ask the American Indian.