Should we be regulated?

Should IT Service Providers be regulated?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 27.4%
  • No

    Votes: 41 56.2%
  • Sitting on the fence

    Votes: 9 12.3%
  • Go on.... (new to this concept)

    Votes: 3 4.1%

  • Total voters
    73
I think we should have to pay a fee. Something like $500 to start and $100 per year for a registration as a repair shop. You should be required by law (local) to carry some kind of ID or have it in your shop that you are registered. I don't care what they do with the money once we pay it.

I cant believe how many idiots we see doing this business only because it didn't cost them anything to start. I understand money can be tight when you first start a business, but with no regulation or fees or anything there are way too many people in this game who shouldn't be.
Its not a perfect solution but at least keeps some of the "I'lll fix your PC for $20" guys from hurting the rest of us.
 
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Not even a doctor should have to be licensed. I would certainly never visit an unlicensed doctor, but it's the choice of the people whether they want to work with someone that's licensed or not.

If we don't license doctors you are going to see more and more people dying from bad doctors because "Doctor Bob" doesn't know what he's doing but heck, he sure is cheap. It's not a "nanny state" if they try to protect people from people who shouldn't be offering their services.
 
No regulation needed. The only time a license should be required by law is when you are dealing with physical safety.
Auto Mechanics need to be licensed for obvious reasons.
Electricians need to be licensed for obvious reasons.
Water and Gas pipe fitters need to be licensed.
Doctors should be licensed. (I can't believe that comment above)

But I don't see where Computers and Networking pose a physical threat to someone.

The legal court processes exist to handle data breaches and unethical behaviors. The free market will bury such outfits by itself, without regulation.

REGULATIONS already exist that define how Networking and Computer services should be handled - if you are in violation of that and the client complains/goes to court - they will win. Problem solved.

You should be very careful to "want" regulation in order to specifically stifle businesses lesser than yours... not only is it not a free market principal, but you may very well find yourself on the bottom end of that bargain... what happens when Best Buy request to have a $10,000 fee to get rid of all these stupid ma and pa shops? You gonna compete with that? May it start to apply to other types of businesses as well?

I have no problem with meaningful government regulation. OSHA has dramatically changed the workplace and workplace deaths/injuries simply because it forces companies to abide by and purchase protective equipment for worker safety. You no longer get fired for NOT climbing the shoddy duct-taped 40ft ladder.

For those who don't want any regulations.. let us not forget that (speaking of the US) we made it to arguably the "top of the world" because of our system. There is plenty to like and hate.. that's for sure.. but to say as a blanket statement "Regulation doesn't work" or a variation as such.. is sorry to say, ignorant. If you want no regulation go live in China or the 3rd world and see how you like it.
 
When the government steps in, the people shouldn't step out. They should continue to monitor the government, and work with them to ensure the policies and regulations set forth maintain a certain process and outcome that was envisioned in the original implementation. When the people step out, the government can go unchecked and create tighter restrictions and increase government control. However, if those in the industry maintain a level of presence and participation with the government on the issues that affect their industry/business, you can leverage some control over how the laws are created and implemented.

There in lies the crux of the situation. People usually do not stay involved, they tend to abdicate their responsibility as soon as it becomes law. And even if they do try, often the regulatory agency ignores their input and rules along the lines of what the government wants. Seen that happen many times. At the end of the day politicians and those they employ are no different than a profit seeking business. Except their definition of profit is to get as many votes as possible.
 
It would weed out pizza techs by making the barrier of entry more difficult: higher rates for the rest of us. I am still not sure I am for it, just a thought.
 
It looks like we are not really talking about regulation or any kind of competency test, just a way to keep out competition.

There are a lot of professionals and shop owners I've run across that I wouldn't let touch my computer, and there are a lot of hobbyists and part timers that I would hire in a heartbeat. $600 in fees isn't going to change that.
 
The problem with licensing is that it does not have any bearing on the quality of work performed. It generates tax money for the local or federal government and perhaps associations. Thats about it. If Johnny is certified or not he is still going to do whatever he wants. In the free market however Johnny will probably spend 10 years or more in prison for his actions. I just do not see the perceived benefit to be licensed. Its a grand idea to think that once everyone is licensed we will all be professionals and do great work. If some tech were to get his license revoked it probably is not going to stop him from working. He will continue to work just like others do now.
 
I think we should have to pay a fee. Something like $500 to start and $100 per year for a registration as a repair shop. You should be required by law (local) to carry some kind of ID or have it in your shop that you are registered. I don't care what they do with the money once we pay it.

I cant believe how many idiots we see doing this business only because it didn't cost them anything to start. I understand money can be tight when you first start a business, but with no regulation or fees or anything there are way too many people in this game who shouldn't be.
Its not a perfect solution but at least keeps some of the "I'lll fix your PC for $20" guys from hurting the rest of us.


Hi.

I see your point. The problem with that, That I see is the whether you are licensed or not the bad techs will figure out a way around it and the good techs suffer. When I started I didnt really have 500.00 bucks. Those that would suffer would be the Independent small business. It would do a lot to start the creation of monopolies in the market. Barriers to entry are not the answer. The free market will weed them out. Business's that are bad do not survive. There are always going to be bad businesses and what they charge for repairs will determine the market. Thats human nature.
 
If we don't license doctors you are going to see more and more people dying from bad doctors because "Doctor Bob" doesn't know what he's doing but heck, he sure is cheap. It's not a "nanny state" if they try to protect people from people who shouldn't be offering their services.

Only a complete and total idiot would use an unlicensed doctor. So doctors would end up having to be licensed in the end. All these licenses that the state requires are just an excuse to steal more money from the people (as if they don't get enough already!). If someone wants to use an unlicensed person, why not let them? If it ends up causing their death, well I guess it's survival of the fittest because only a complete moron would use an unlicensed doctor. But like I said, there are a lot of idiots in this world, but not enough to sustain an unlicensed doctor. They would end up being FORCED to become licensed because no one would use them otherwise. That's the free market at work my friend.
 
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My vision with this is simple:
  1. Test those who want to be in business on the basics of what is needed to run a business. The Generic Business Licensing does this, by testing the owner on certain business tasks and processes. You wouldn't have to go to college and get yourself that fancy business degree. How many of us here, when we started, knew how to run a business? I know I didn't, I relied on friends, family, those I met through the Chamber, and online searching.
  2. Ensure that business owners have a basic concept of the most common legalities in this business. No need to go to deep in to the understanding, that's what lawyers are for. But I'm sure many of us have seen EULA's and Copyrights being violated left and right. Individuals being sold free-software (excluding labor if you install it for them). Is it because these techs don't know what the laws are or how these licenses work? Or is it simply they don't care? I'm sure that some know and still don't care, but I wouldn't put it past some of these techs that they honestly don't know.
  3. Ensure that technical staff and owners have been taught best practices, or at least know about them. How many times have you walked in to a utility/communications closet, and seen the rats nest of cables everywhere? How many times have people asked on here how long can an Ethernet cable be? How many techs are helping clinics, lawyers, CPA's, and don't even know what compliance laws apply to their customers? How many times have you found the router on top of a microwave? (I've found routers/AP's on top of microwaves 23 times. Of those 23, 17 were placed by the previous IT provider)
  4. Ensure that businesses are protecting themselves. The truth is, no license or regulation enforcement will ever eliminate bad companies and services. I know this. But if you legitimize businesses by ensuring that certain steps are taken, such as "competent" staff, business insurance and/or bonding, you are not just protecting the consumer, but you are also protecting the business. How many of us are running around without basic business insurance? If you are a one-man shop, and you can't afford basic business insurance, then 1 of 3 things is going on. 1) You think you can't afford it, even though you never shopped around for it. 2) You did shop around, and you still can't afford it. This might be a sign that you need a second job. 3) You can afford it, but you're too cheap to buy it. I'm sure this offended some of you, but honestly, if you never shopped around or you are too cheap to purchase it, then you are voluntarily opening yourself up for bad things to happen. If you can't afford, and you looked around, you might have get a second income, and place your computer business in the part-time section until enough business comes through the make it support itself. Nothing wrong with this. In the end, I see this point about the business owner ensuring that they are protecting themselves. I don't feel bad for people who chose to forgo business protections because they thought nothing bad would happen to them, and now they are the on the street collecting cans because they lost a lawsuit and had no insurance to help them.
For those of you making comments about this would only make the local governments richer, and "they already have enough money"...I can tell you aren't involved with your local government at all. One of the things I absolutely love about my local chamber of commerce is that they are heavily involved with government policies. They have helped the government officials shoot down bad ideas, revise the half-baked, and pass the good. Not all of the policies have been swayed, passed or declined by chamber involvement, but enough to make a difference that promotes, supports, and encourages small businesses to flourish, regardless of them being out of the home, in and office, or on a store-front. If you aren't involved with your government at all, then I don't see why should have a say as to what gets passed. If you only vote, you are helping to make a difference more than someone who does nothing. But not as much as the person who tries to actively work on making sure the government only passes policies that do good. I try to be as active as I can be. I stood by for 6 years watching my government make policies, while I fought on the front lines of our wars. Now I'm trying to fight on the front lines of our governments (local) policy making. Not every war is won, not every battle comes with out its casualties, but I'm trying to make a difference. I know where my tax dollars are going, and not all of them do I support where they go, but I'm trying to keep more and more money going to where it needs to go.

Will good techs suffer? Yes. Will bad techs still find a way around it? Yes. Sorry, but that is how the game works. But the thing I see from this is that good techs can flourish, and bad techs can be weeded out. Sure, some good techs may have to wait a little longer before starting their own business, but that gives them time to learn the business. Licensing doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. A couple hundred bucks (That's $200), an exam fee, and they are ready to go plus the costs of whatever else is needed. Failure to get a license, something bad techs will do, would cost them so much more than $200. Those who are terrible but still get licensing, can loose their license, and therefore be out of the game.

The difference between a professional and a hobbyist is this: A professional gets paid for what they do; A hobbyist does not get paid for what they do. I'm not worried about a hobbyist, because he isn't in the game to make money. Therefore, there is less likely of a chance that he would steal any real potential customers from me.

Those that would suffer would be the Independent small business. It would do a lot to start the creation of monopolies in the market. Barriers to entry are not the answer.

Some small businesses would suffer, yes. They'd be required to purchase things like insurance, maybe buy workers compensation for their employees, etc. But I do not see how it start the creation of monopolies. How many contracting businesses are in your city? In mine, there is a lot of them. In the state of Arizona, it costs almost $1000 for each commercial general construction classification. And yet, I see, I've met, tons of these guys. Most of them are 1 or 2 people operated. Are they millionaires? No, but guess what, they've been in business for years. Some guys I've met, they've been in business for about a year, and they've told me they have a second job to get them through the no-work days. Is it a barrier in to the market? Yes. But it wont help create monopolies. A monopoly is the absolute control of a particular market, and honestly, I don't see it happening. I don't see enough of us not being able to afford the licensing, and recover our investment of it, to put enough of us out business to create these monopolies some of you are talking about.

Would licensing increase the cost of our services? Maybe. Maybe only have the requirement of licensing for those of us who do Business to Business work, and not for Business to Consumer if that is the worry. But at the same time, do you not forward the costs of your advertising to your customers? How about your insurance? How about to pay your employees? Building and equipment maintenance? Why should your customers have to pay for you to advertise on Google, or pay for you to have insurance? Why can't you pay for those yourself? If your customers are paying for a little bit of your license (like they pay for your insurance and advertising), then in essence, they are paying for you to be a legitimate business. They are paying for someone to be a professional business.

The only time a license should be required by law is when you are dealing with physical safety.

@phaZed, I have to call you out on this one, but please don't take it personal. Why then do CPA's have to be licensed in many states? Not too mention insurance brokers? Realtors? I don't see how a CPA has anything to do with your physical safety, or an insurance broker, or even a realtor. Yet, most states require them to be licensed. A CPA handles my money and files my taxes. An insurance broker sells me insurance, and have nothing to do really with how the medical treatment is given. And a realtor just shows me houses. It's not his fault if I don't ensure the house is structurally sound. If you ask me, CPA's, Insurance Brokers, and realtors are a dime a dozen. There is no scarcity what so ever, and they have nothing to do with my physical safety. Going back to licensing would create a monopoly, then why are there so many realtors? Why is it when I throw a rock, I have a good chance of hitting an insurance broker?
 
Regulated occupations and/or activities should be restricted as much as possible to high dollar or high risk of bodily injury areas. Regulation imposes burdens and costs that need to be applied on a rational basis. Repairing personal computers or phones would hardly seem to qualify. Perhaps a few technicians have stolen from clients but those cases would be better handled in a criminal proceeding anyway. Otherwise, professional licensing has been largely used to create barriers to entry which merely allow existing licensees to maintain their pricing levels. Existing methods to determine professional competency such as the BBB, Angie's List, word-of-mouth, etc. work just as effectively at much lower costs to consumers.
 
Something simple would be nice, just a letter of certification from your state that proves you have an "actual business license" and "actual insurance" would be nice. That would keep a lot of unwelcome people out and it wouldn't be too intrusive.
 
A business license, so to speak, is required in most, if not all, of US localities. Need to file even if you are a sole proprietor operating under your own name out of your home.
 
I have to call you out on this one, but please don't take it personal. Why then do CPA's have to be licensed in many states? Not too mention insurance brokers? Realtors? I don't see how a CPA has anything to do with your physical safety, or an insurance broker, or even a realtor. Yet, most states require them to be licensed. A CPA handles my money and files my taxes. An insurance broker sells me insurance, and have nothing to do really with how the medical treatment is given. And a realtor just shows me houses. It's not his fault if I don't ensure the house is structurally sound. If you ask me, CPA's, Insurance Brokers, and realtors are a dime a dozen. There is no scarcity what so ever, and they have nothing to do with my physical safety. Going back to licensing would create a monopoly, then why are there so many realtors? Why is it when I throw a rock, I have a good chance of hitting an insurance broker?

No doubt there are some "grey" areas.. take the Realtor for instance. While he/she may not deal with personal safety per se - it is their responsibility to make sure they know the physical state of the property they are selling. Molds, fungus, termites and structural integrity (and in some states, lead testing is mandatory for the realtor) of the structure all MUST be disclosed to the purchaser or the Realtor could be hit with fraud charges. So really, it is their job to make sure that the properties physical state is disclosed to the best of the realtor's knowledge. The grey area comes to the personal safety of the purchaser in their new home or at least knowing the dangers before purchase.

Looking at CPA's, insurance brokers etc... I don't think they should be required to be licensed. Simply because they are doesn't mean I agree with it. What I would agree with is testing and certification of these professions in which it qualifies the individual/company in their field, much like a CCNA, A+, etc. Not mandatory, but preferred. Taking a CPA or broker again, laws are in place to make sure they do things correctly and may be sued to re-coop any losses of the client. If your CPA screws up, the state or feds go to their door.. not yours. CPA's that screw up a lot won't be around for long. Why not have CPA (Certified Public Accountants) and PA (Public Accountant)? Clients choice.

I do see the other side of the argument, however. Financial institutions and the supporting CPA's etc need to know what they are doing and in the past there has been plenty of fraud to go around... but now we have licensing and the fraud is still here bigger than ever when talking about finance and money. I don't have any numbers/knowledge to quantify how much or how little licensing has affected fraud in that industry but would like to know.

Getting back to the Computer Repair Industry - I don't really see how paying a fee for a license is going to stop unscrupulous behavior... and to my knowledge, unscrupulous behavior in the Computer Repair Industry isn't an out-of-control problem that requires regulation. I think we (the country) should be more reactive to problems as they arise instead of preemptive for problems that *could* occur.
 
Only a complete and total idiot would use an unlicensed doctor. So doctors would end up having to be licensed in the end. All these licenses that the state requires are just an excuse to steal more money from the people (as if they don't get enough already!).

Your post makes no sense. You think licensing would happen on its own because people would want a licensed doctor. But why would licensing exist unless it was required ? Do you think there should be an optional licensing for doctors ? You know people who don't have much money would go to the cheaper, unlicensed doctor. It happens all the time in poor third world countries.
 
When I began in radio, circa 1990, there was an FCC license. It cost $35. There was not test. There had been a test but it wasn't relevant. Technology had changed so much that you didn't need to know how things were actually broadcasted. A few years later the FCC no linger issued licenses.

I defy any agency to standardize a test that can possibly cover what I have learned in 30 years. When I thought of taking the A+ I declined to do so because at that time they want to test you on your Windows 95 knowledge. We were all XP at that point.
 
Your post makes no sense. You think licensing would happen on its own because people would want a licensed doctor. But why would licensing exist unless it was required ? Do you think there should be an optional licensing for doctors ? You know people who don't have much money would go to the cheaper, unlicensed doctor. It happens all the time in poor third world countries.

Licensing would exist because the free market (people) WANT it to exist (at least for doctors). And I'm sure some poorer people would use an unlicensed doctor for things that they don't consider to be as important. I doubt anyone, no matter how poor, would resort to using an unlicensed surgeon where they could actually KILL you with their incompetence. But remember, the poor people that are using the unlicensed doctors don't have any money. The so called "doctors" wouldn't be able to support themselves and a totally new type of profession would emerge. They would act more like consultants than actual doctors and the important stuff would be done by real licensed doctors.

All this BS didn't exist only a few hundred years ago and things went along just fine. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of how complicated government BS is making society. Just going to the doctor is a major headache. Doctors don't even DO anything anymore. They just bounce you around and refer you to other "specialists" and don't do any work themselves. They're just Google that you have to pay for. Honestly I would prefer an unlicensed "doctor" that could do these referrals for $100 instead of the standard $400.

Remember, I'm not against schooling. I'm against government regulation of absolutely everything. Just like an unlicensed computer technician can be just as good (or in some cases even better) than a licensed one, the same thing could be said of "doctors" that just decide they don't need the licensing from the state.
 
Me: Well as you can see from all the certificates, I have an MCSA, MCSE for SharePoint, MCSE for Private Cloud, MCSE for Communication, MCSE for Desktop Infrastructure, MCP, CCNA, CCNP, CCSE, CCIE, etc etc...

Customer: What the heck are those?

Andy

The naked truth :)
 
For those of you who had said "no", and voiced your opinion, are you also opposed to self-regulation?

I am not opposed to self regulation. The internet has been doing that since its conception. What is so wrong is government regulation. The government makes a poor business partner. Look at things like healthcare, Amtrak, Social Security ect... The list is quite large. The reason the government is so poor as a business partner is because they have no vested interest in the dealings. Take the US Post Office system for example. They have continuously lost money and feed off our taxes to stay alive. Their service is not the best. When they lose money they simply get more from our tax dollars.

Self Regulation is the way to go.
 
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