Splitting an ethernet cable into 2 DC jacks

[Big Jim]

I went out to a customer on Saturday who run a softplay centre.
The issue I went out for highlighted a number of other flaws in their network.

They currently don't really have customers separated on the network and have asked me to quote to "upgrade" them as it were.

The customer wifi acess is via netgear router that is on the wall in the main room.
however they also have a TV that display adverts etc hard-wired in to that router, which I don't like.
This router is plugged in to a walljack that leads back to the main office.
They have a similar setup for the till system as well, and they have another PC that the owner uses on the front desk connected to the same wifi that the customer use.

To make my life a lot easier, I was planning on splitting both of the ethernet cables in to 2 walljacks. and running 2 x 100Mbit ethernet down 1 cable.
I haven't ever done this before because I have always been involved in the planning stages and able to tell people to run more cable.

Is it really bad practice to do this ?
Running additional cable won't be easy so I'll end up having to come up with another solution if this isn't feasible.

Also is there a handy diagram how to split the cable also ?
I am not 100% sure which cables are actually used for 100Mbit, just aware that it only requires 2 twisted pairs.

 

[Markverhyden]

While it's not recommended it does work. seen it many times. Just make sure they have a clear understanding on this and sign off on it as PoE and 1000 will not work. Cat5E 100 only requires 2 pair as you stated. Pins 1,2,3,&6. I stick with 568B, so the first jack pair are ow-1/o-2 and gw-3/g-6 and then second jack pair is blw-1/bl-2 and brw-3/br-6. Understand that when you punch down the blw on pin 1 will have the ow color, etc on the keystone. Make sure to have a real tester on hand, not a blinky light thing.

Edit: Just re-read it. If it's just one drop then the switch solution, as mentioned by the others is the way to go. For some reason I thought it was a bunch of locations.

 

[jmitservices]

I'm confused why you would bother. Just install a switch?

 

[cyabro]

Never! do the splitting of an ethernet cable inside the wall, use a pair of external splitters/combiners instead.
That way it's easy enough to revert back to a single socket if needed to be used for gigabit etc.

 

[brandonkick]

Another vote for a switch.

Then get a ubiquiti unifi access point and configure
two SSID's... one private and one for guest access.
Easy as pie.

 

[GTP]

Another vote for a switch.

Then get a ubiquiti unifi access point and configure
two SSID's... one private and one for guest access.
Easy as pie.

+ 1 for this.

 

[Big Jim]

I've just re-read my original post and realised that it wasn't clear, sorry about that.
The main router for broadband is in the back office and everything routes back there.

They have installed an additional netgear router in the main room to provide guest wifi access. this router has an advertising PC connected via Ethernet.
They also connect one PC of their own via wifi to the customer router. (which I intend to change to Ethernet)
The cable that I am talking about splitting runs from the back office to the customer area.

I was intending on using an ubiquiti AP in the customer area, but even with 2 SSIDs how does the traffic at the router end get segregated ?
I haven't installed an Ubiquiti in an environment that needs guest/private access yet so I haven't played around with that side of things.

 

[GTP]

I was intending on using an ubiquiti AP, but even with 2 SSIDs how does the traffic at the router end get segregated ?
I haven't installed an Ubiquiti in an environment that needs guest/private access yet so I haven't played around with that side of things.

https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000166827-UniFi-Guest-Network-Setup

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I've just re-read my original post and realised that it wasn't clear, sorry about that.
The main router for broadband is in the back office and everything routes back there.

They have installed an additional netgear router in the main room to provide guest wifi access. this router has an advertising PC connected via Ethernet.
They also connect one PC of their own via wifi to the customer router. (which I intend to change to Ethernet)
The cable that I am talking about splitting runs from the back office to the customer area.

I was intending on using an ubiquiti AP in the customer area, but even with 2 SSIDs how does the traffic at the router end get segregated ?
I haven't installed an Ubiquiti in an environment that needs guest/private access yet so I haven't played around with that side of things.

"Guest Modes" for WiFi are done within the wireless access point, when enabled. Also known as "client isolation"...the access point will basically "VLAN" each wireless client, the only thing that wireless client will have access to...is the gateway (to get to the internet), DHCP, and DNS. They cannot "touch" anything else on the network.

You can raise this another level by tagging the guest SSID to a VLAN which a switch or router handles and routes to a different network or IP range...for additional security. But usually the regular "guest mode" satisfies the needs.

For splitting the runs, for smaller setups there are wall jack setups that are basically a little switch. HP used to make the, HP IntelliJacks. Sadly they recently disco'd them, I haven't had the need for one of them in a while so I haven't found another brand that makes them, I'm sure there are some. I like these better than a little switch with a wall wart power supply, that sits under a desk making a mess of cables.

 

[coffee]

I like the idea of the Ubiquity router with guest turned on. One thing to keep in mind that the software that is installed to configure and monitor the router has to be running for the guest network to stay up. So, If they (for some reason) turn off or reboot the computer then the guest network is going to go down. That is unless things have changed - but I dont think so.

 

[tek9]

I like the idea of the Ubiquity router with guest turned on. One thing to keep in mind that the software that is installed to configure and monitor the router has to be running for the guest network to stay up. So, If they (for some reason) turn off or reboot the computer then the guest network is going to go down. That is unless things have changed - but I dont think so.

I think that is only if you're using the guest portal feature. If you're just setting up a separate guest network you don't need to have a running controller.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Controller does not have to keep running, they go into a "self run" state. Basically the controller is only used for provisioning, and if you keep the captive portal there.
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/205222660

Guest mode is done at the AP level, not the router, you can have Ubiquiti Unifi's do guest modes with a different brand router/edge device.

 

[brandonkick]

It's still a little difficult to wrap my head around exactly what your talking about when
you describe this setup, it would be a lot easier for you to diagram it out instead. But
even having said that I still think the advice here doesn't change. If you have at least
one cable coming into the area your wishing to "expand" then you can simply use a
switch, either traditional or one like YOSC has posted. That gives you the ability to use
as many patch cables as you need.

Anything that is not for "company use" or in other words the wifi they let their customers
use should be segregated off onto a guest wireless network. As stated before, it's dead
simple with the Unifi controller software. I'm a networking noob compared to most on
this site, and I walked through setting up nearly half a dozen of these things now with
not one single problem. Once you get them adopted, and configured... they just go to work
and keeps doing its job all day everyday.

I'm thinking maybe you were asking about also segregating off a wired part of the network
as well? Not sure why you'd wanna do that, the guest unifi wireless will be plenty.

Anything else, can either be hard wired or on the "private" wifi.

 

[Big Jim]

Right using my photoshop mastery I have created this work of art

So lets explain.
red line = single run of cat 5 from one wall plat to another
yellow dots = customer pcs
blue dots = tills
light green dots = routers
dark green dot = CCTV system
red dot = advertising PC

so starting at the back office is a BT homehub 4 or 5, this is the main router and the one that is "routing" the broadband
plugged in to this is router 2 and router 3, the back office desktop and the CCTV system

the first ethernet jack is plugged in to router 2
the 2nd ethernet jack is plugged in to router 3
Router 2 & 3 are the old black and blue Linksys routers, although I didn't see any ariels on them, so not sure if they are wifi capable or not. I have no idea of the configuration of router 2 and 3 because nobody knows the passwords, the alleged IP addresses are written on them, and one says it has DCHP one says it doesn't, this is written by hand on a white label stuck to the router.
The 4th green dot is the main hall router that is giving the customers wifi, as far as I can tell this is plugged in via its WAN port although I can't be sure because it is mounted to the wall 10 feet up and I wasn't there to fix that, however the media/ advertising PC is plugged in to it and that has a 192.168.xx.xx address whereas the other routers are 10.xx.xx.xx, no idea at this point what subnets are being used.
the black L shape is the front desk and has 3 tills that are connected to each other via a TP link switch which is rammed to the back of one of the cupboards, I cannot see 90% of the wiring. I also havent touched a single till.
I have spoken to the "till people" and they all talk to the back office PC as that hosts some kind of central software.
The last yellow dot in the main hall is another PC that the customer uses and that connects using the customer wifi, the network connection is showing a 10M/Bit connection but again I have no idea what that is connected to and it didn't really seem to be working as far as internet access goes either.
worth nothing that the Ethernet Jack is directly under this PC on the front desk.

Does that make it any clearer ?

 

[Big Jim]

Worth noting that I didn't spend extra time on site to weigh up the exact config because I arrived there at 18:00 on Saturday night and spent 2 hours on site.
I think i would need an hour or 2 more to test all wiring, take note of all ip adresses and configs etc.

 

[Mercenary Roadie]

To make my life a lot easier, I was planning on splitting both of the ethernet cables in to 2 walljacks. and running 2 x 100Mbit ethernet down 1 cable.
I haven't ever done this before because I have always been involved in the planning stages and able to tell people to run more cable.

Is it really bad practice to do this ?
Running additional cable won't be easy so I'll end up having to come up with another solution if this isn't feasible.

Also is there a handy diagram how to split the cable also?
I am not 100% sure which cables are actually used for 100Mbit, just aware that it only requires 2 twisted pairs.

NO NO NO AND NO

Never ever do this!!!!

I don't care if it saves you time and the client money. It is the wrong thing to do and will only make you look incompetent in the long run.

 

[DRPCNZ]

Tie and pull either a draw wire or 2 wires with the existing wire

 

[Big Jim]

I have ordered a unifi AP off amazon.
I'm going to have a play around with the guest wifi mode first before I quote.
assuming it works as described above (which I have no doubt it will) then I have no need to pull additional wire, what they have is sufficient it just needs tidying up.
I was going to replace their router with a draytek 2860N, but I think the BT Home/business hub will be ok for what they are doing won't it ?

If they decide not to go ahead I'll install the Unifi AP it in my house, I've been thinking of getting on for a while, and at £97 for an AC LR model you really can't grumble.

 

[Big Jim]

Tie and pull either a draw wire or 2 wires with the existing wire

Also, can't see that ever happening to be honest, nobody runs cable like this in nice smooth conduit, it is put through walls and cheapo plastic trunking with 90 degree bends etc.

I haven't actually inspected the run of this wire thoroughly to be fair but I can just tell it is that kind of job.

if it was a big corporate office I would hold some hope but it isn't. Its a soft play centre where the previous owner has done it all himself

 

[brandonkick]

Holy dear lord... what a mess.

Why 4 routers? I assume when you say BT router... you mean the gateway that
the ISP provided? If so.. that's fine.

Why 3 other routers?

This sounds like a nuke and pave job in the networking world. What a mess of a
setup.

All they need is the one gateway in the back (and maybe a simple unmanaged swtich
of decent quality), one switch in the front (near the black L shaped thing) and the Unifi
access point.


Quote them for a total tear down and reconfiguration, if they gripe... ask them how much
money they lose for every day the networking system is out of service, because that baby
seems to be a ticking time bomb that no one knows anything about.