Well, so much for Office 2021 being the last standalone version . . .

[britechguy]

I simply uninstall OneDrive, then I don't have to deal with it.

As do I on client machines where they are not using M365. Or, at the very least, I make sure it doesn't start with Windows and that Documents, Music, etc. are not directed to OneDrive.

If you're not really using cloud storage, it makes no sense to have anything directed there by default.

 

[ThatPlace928]

If you're not really using cloud storage, it makes no sense to have anything directed there by default.

Exactly. Most of my clients are in their senior years. All they want to do is use a computer. They don't want a cloud drive, whether OneDrive or other.

Myself, I don't feel safe storing my stuff on someone else's server. Never have.

 

[fincoder]

Most seniors (and others that are technically naive) say they want nothing to do with the cloud because they find it mysterious. But if it's explained to them that every file they save in Docs/Pics/Desktop is backed up automatically to a Microsoft server, some of them ask me to enable it.

 

[britechguy]

@fincoder:

Indeed. If you describe cloud storage as nothing more than off-site backup, or storage, in a professionally managed data center most people do "get it."

For those who absolutely, positively want a local duplicate, OneDrive supports that natively via it's "always available offline" feature.

The problem is that for many people, the free level of OneDrive that comes with Windows only gives 5GB of space, which is seldom enough even for many "light" computer users. This is particularly so if they take lots of photos they've put on their computer over the years.

If I discover that 5GB is just too little, and the individual does not want to enter the M365 world, I do not turn on (or, in reality, turn off) automatic backup of the libraries that would cause an instant "over limit" condition and make them aware that these are not backed up to OneDrive.

With regard to data safety, both for myself and clients, I ask them what they've heard in the news about how people are scammed, how people get ransomware, and the kinds of data commonly breached (usually account information, with things like credit card numbers, SSN, other personally identifying information). Then I ask them when was the last news story they heard about anyone's personal data on the cloud being breached or stolen. That gets the point across. Data centers all have levels of security that is far above what any of us can put in place on our individual computers. Our own computers are far easier "smash and grab" targets than any data center is.

 

[Philippe]

very stupid clients if they can't keep track of their Microsoft Account credentials

How arrogant! It's the same here with most of my clients. And no they are NOT stupid!

The end user has total control

No they don't, because no one told them in the first place!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm not literally suggesting that people still use Word 97. I'm just saying from a feature perspective, most people would be fine still using Word 97, so 365's "perk" of always having the most recent version of Word is pointless for most people.

So...Wordpad, or...Libre Office...for those who don't need the whole suite. For home users that literally just need a text editor, Wordpad (came with Windows..it's about 75% of Word)...or...an open source suite like LibreOffice...is all they need. For just a word editor...as you say.

Yeah, I forgot about that. It was 10 years for so long that I can't help thinking it's still 10 years. At 5 years you have to cut my numbers in half. Still, 365 is 150% to 333% more expensive than a standalone version assuming you don't buy it right before the next version comes out like an idiot.

Because Microsoft 365 is more than just a suite of office apps...it's also online services...and multiple installs.

Didn't personal used to only include installing it on 1 computer? If you can really do 5 computers for $69/year then that brings it almost on-par with a perpetual license for 2+ computers. It's still a ripoff if you only need to install it on one computer though.

Considering that OneDrive can "back up" your important files, that Edge Browser "syncs" online (so you can migrate to other computers), and email too! Other apps follow your account, if you installed from the Microsoft Store. Just sign into a new computer...BOOM...it's all back, various apps, OneDrive files, browser favorites/passwords, email, etc. Not really a ripoff.

As far as I know OneDrive is still limited to a ridiculously tiny 1TB like it's still 2012 or something. I know you can get more but you have to buy like 5 licenses and even then you're limited to only 5TB. You can get more but you have to contact Microsoft or some BS. This is completely unacceptable in 2024. Heck, it was completely unacceptable in 2015.

FREE account, 5 gigs
Basic, 100 gigs
Personal, 1TB, can raise to 2TB
Family, 6TB..spread across 6x users, 1 TB each, can raise to 6TB
Business below E3 plans...1TB
Business E3 and above,5TB...expandable to 25TB

The main problem I have with it though is that it doesn't keep the files on your computer. If you just use it to sync it's fine but as soon as you turn on "backup" it decides to arbitrarily delete files from your computer and keep them in the cloud only. This means that if you forget the password or Microsoft's server dies and they lose your data, it's gone forever. Even if your computer is still working, you can't back up the data from your computer because the data isn't actually on your computer. This is ridiculous.

Uhm...COMPLETELY incorrect. There is a single checkbox...."files on demand"..turn it on, by default...it stores files in the cloud...downloading each as you access them. However, you can right click individual files...or...individual folders...even ALL OF YOUR FOLDERS..within OD...and select "Keep on this computer". This changes the "status" row of icons in file explorer. Solid green means stored locally. Hollow blue cloud..means up in the cloud. With the incredible ease of the right click...of any folders/files under a OD synced folder, you can store locally, keep in the cloud, cherry pic individual files/folders for each, or all. It's nice and efficient for drive space if needed. Nice and handy to store locally all the time also, say, for traveling users. You can go back 'n forth all you want.

I have the exact opposite experience. 99% of the time my clients can't remember their Microsoft account email address, let alone their password.

Whelp ..yeah same for most "residential jobs"...people can't remember their Apple ID credentials to put stuff on a crapple iphone, or Google account for Android stuff. Or...the login that they changed for hitting their ISPs gateway...to change a wife setting. Or their Juno or AOL or whatever credentials. That's residential stuff for ya!

At the very least they should make it VERY obvious what files are "cloud only" and which files are stored on the computer. All they have to do is have a little folder in OneDrive for cloud only files but they don't.

Whelp..they do make it incredibly easy...read up on it...it's just a checkbox..with a clear explanation next to it.

 

[Porthos]

Basic, 100 gigs

 

[phaZed]

How arrogant! It's the same here with most of my clients. And no they are NOT stupid!


No they don't, because no one told them in the first place!

Not to come to anyone's defense, as such, but let's look at this logically.

If a client is not keeping track of their own Login and Passwords - that certainly isn't "Smart", nor responsible of the client. We can argue the application of the word "Stupid" and play semantics - but it is, "stupid" to not at least write down or keep track of your passwords - that failure to do so doesn't make the client "stupid" at everything in all of their life... but it does make that choice a stupid one.

I am stupid - and smart, but it depends on the subject of which we're addressing. I am "stupid" at say Chemistry, but that doesn't make one stupid in all areas of life... and I don't go playing with chemicals and start mixing Bleach and Ammonia. If I started playing with Hydrochloric Acid and get burned - I will be the first to say I'm stupid!

People shoot themselves with their own guns all the time in the US - because they were mishandling their firearms - which is stupid - they didn't follow "the rules" of firearm safety. It doesn't imply that they are senile or destitute... but it's damned-stupid to shoot yourself unless that was the outcome you were looking for (Suicide - implies intent).


"The end user has total control"
"No they don't, because no one told them in the first place!"

Being told of something or not doesn't change the fact that they do have full control. It's always been upon the client to learn about the products they purchase. If you buy a car, the salesman generally isn't going to read through the manual for you - that's for the client to do when they get home or before they leave the dealer.

There are plenty of "manuals" online regarding OneDrive, Office, or any other product - and a big HELP menu for them to look at and search. If you (the client) CHOOSES not to inform themselves of the product they purchased, that's on them.. and again, is not very "smart". Why is the client unable to look at the Settings and see what options are available to them? If they're not interested in that - again, that's their fault.

Do you expect Microsoft to call the client or show up at their doorstep to inform them about OneDrive usage and how it works? Silliness!
OneDrive throws up plenty of (IMO) annoying pop-ups to describe many of the "features" - but if one chooses not to read them.. again, that's a stupid action to take. If they simply "don't care" about reading it.. well, then they can suffer the consequences of their ignorance and be mad at only themselves. They shouldn't go looking for someone else to blame for their ineptitudes - "because no one told them in the first place".



There's a certain level of self-informing that is expected of Adults that can read simple terms... and if "you don't know what something is".. it is expected that an adult can reasonably find the answer in 10 seconds on Google or Bing or the OneDrive Help menu.. or whatever. After all, "they" seem to have no problem finding answers to many things, so long as it interests them. Well, sorry to say, sometimes you still need to inform yourself of things "you don't really care about". Such is life.

 

[britechguy]

How arrogant!

Sorry, but no, it's not arrogant. If, in 2024, you do not understand that email and cloud services (including things like your Apple ID, Google Account, etc., etc., etc.) all have login credentials then that's on you.

I have a very large contingent of senior citizen clients who are not computer savvy, yet almost to a one they understand that this is true, and the they need to keep track of these credentials.

It is long past time we stop allowing the cries of "Poor, uneducated users!," to come up for something this freakin' basic. You need a key to unlock your house or start your car, you need an account and password (at a minimum, those who are aware of MFA are way beyond the basics) to use online services of any kind. This is not rocket science.

I do not laugh in client's faces when they make inane statements such as, "I don't have a password, I never had a password!," but I turn it around, very directly with something like, "If you are using this service, yes you do, and yes you did. You may not have set it up, but just like you can't get into your house without a key, you can't use {Gmail, Facebook, whatever} without an account and a password." They need to hear this, as often as necessary, to make it sink in and so that they actually treat these credentials in the same way they treat their keys for physical entry.

 

[britechguy]

No they don't, because no one told them in the first place!

And, again, when an adult chooses to use a product or service, it is incumbent upon THEM to familiarize themselves with the basics. We expect it for appliances, automobiles, tools, etc., and we SHOULD expect it for computers and all that comes with them.

How in the hell did we ever reach the place where we think you should be able to place anything, anything at all, into the hands of someone who knows nothing about it and expect them to "know it in the first place" or that anyone other than the individual is responsible for learning what they need to learn?

I wouldn't accept the kinds of rank ignorance that some seem to think should be tolerated here from elementary school kids. As we go through life we need to be asking questions, and we need to be asking them even more if we're completely in the dark about something. The world is not spoonfeeding anyone, or at least not for very long.

I find the infantilizing of adult clients, and particularly older ones, that I hear here (and elsewhere) to be insulting to their intelligence. They're generally not clueless, in my experience, on the whole. Each of us has small cells of utter cluelessness, though.

 

[britechguy]

@phazed

I really don't know how much more obvious you can make it that when a file or folder presents like this:



or


or



that the item being displayed is being stored on the cloud, and only the cloud.

While this:



or this



means its not ONLY in the cloud.

With OneDrive everything is in the cloud, the only additional choice you have is whether you want it always available offline (in which case that green circle with white checkmark tells you it is), or available offline after you've accessed it until and unless there is a need to clear up space on your local drive (in which case it's the white circle with the green checkmark).

How much more obvious can "in the cloud" get than a little cloud overlay on any item that is, well, only in the cloud or presently in the cloud?

 

[phaZed]

Not only that, but the absolute first things that come up upon installation:

 

[britechguy]

@phaZed

Oh, yes, Microsoft has been so very, very obscure with users about OneDrive and how it works.

The number of screen shots of where this is presented, and not just at machine setup, could go on for a very long time.

Claims of ignorance with regard to OneDrive are untenable, unless you count willful ignorance, which I do not. You fail to at least look at these when they pop up, for the few seconds they take to review, at your own peril.

You don't get better than "putting it in writing, and putting that writing directly in front of eyes."

 

[Philippe]

Why is the client unable to look at the Settings and see what options are available to them? If they're not interested in that - again, that's their fault.
Do you expect Microsoft to call the client or show up at their doorstep to inform them about OneDrive usage and how it works? Silliness!

. it is expected that an adult can reasonably find the answer in 10 seconds on Google or Bing or the OneDrive Help menu..

They need to hear this, as often as necessary, to make it sink in and so that they actually treat these credentials in the same way they treat their keys for physical entry.

Gentlemen, I get yours points In theory, they're as good as they can be.

But experience in the field has shown me otherwise:

Most of my clients - in 2024 - still don't have the reflex to google things! It's just not part of their lives.
Most see computers as a necessary evil and use them only when absolutely necessary. They are not clueless, they simply have better things to do with theirs lives. Computers are just tools. Switch it on, look for your email & bank account (the only password they care to remember), switch it off and let it sleep for another week...

So no one dive in OneDrive settings or * any * settings by the way.
No one care about the notifications, it's just some more stupid "ads".
OneDrive warnings / pop-up: sure, they just click "next" until they can see their desktop again.
No one expect the behavior of their computers to change over time / overnight (saving to the Cloud as default).
No one care about theirs passwords. Sure, they write them down sometime, but as they don't have to use them everyday (Windows Hello, passwords saved in browser, etc.) they will forget them eventually...

And believe me, around here, with my elderly clients, no one have the use or even understand what the cloud is all about... and no one want to pay for yet another stupid subscription.

 

[britechguy]

Most of my clients - in 2024 - still don't have the reflex to google things! It's just not part of their lives.

I am not going to argue about anyone's lived experience, as we all have different ones, but this frankly shocks me.

Even my senior citizen clients use "Googling" as a verb. Admittedly, they don't do it as often as the youngsters do, but they still do it. There are, of course, exceptions who only use the computer for email and Facebook (usually, if any social media at all), but those are rare.

With regard to what some (apparently the majority) of your clients actually do, or do not do, it still comes back to the fact that they are adults and if they choose to use something, anything, learning how is incumbent upon them. There is absolutely, positively, no way that outside forces can magically make them take on that responsibility if they wish to shirk it. Decisions have consequences. I refuse to give free pass for anyone to claim ignorance of true computer basics these days.

Luckily, my overall experience with most residential clients is that the old adage, "Once burned, twice shy," applies. They have to get burned, big time, at least once, sometimes twice or three times, but they get sick of being burned and, at a minimum, take on responsibility for knowing their accounts and login credentials. My senior citizen clients generally log this information on paper, but they log it.

 

[Philippe]

Think of computers as cars, you have:
- Mechanics
- People who love their car. Even know how to do small repairs.
- People who just drive.
Don't care about their car. Don't know how to check neither oil nor tires. Change it every two years, just because "it's best".
- People who have a chauffeur. They just sit in their car, know absolutely nothing about it and don't want to know.

Let's say I have a lot of the last 2 categories as clients...

 

[Philippe]

Even my senior citizen clients use "Googling" as a verb.

For "them", around here, Google means Internet. Using Google means searching for their webmail access.
Once I've put a shortcut to their webmail on their desktop, I'm pretty sure they don't use Google anymore...

 

[britechguy]

Let's say I have a lot of the last 2 categories as clients...

I do hope, in regard to those two categories, you do make a point to them about the absolute need to log (and update, if you change something) your account credentials for any account you ever open, or have someone else open for you.

More misery, and money, could be saved with just that tiny practice being adhered to than tons of others. Even though I've raked in the cash for countless hours of going through "Forgot my password," and other account access recovery methods, I'd really rather not have to do that as it actually slows down the fix I'm seeking to make. But when I must, I do.

 

[britechguy]

For "them", around here, Google means Internet. Using Google means searching for their webmail access.

Interesting. My own experience is that most people, senior citizens or not, don't seem to realize that Google is an ecosystem, and that you don't have a "Gmail account" AND a "Google Account." It's a Google Account that grants you access to Gmail, Docs, Sheets, Google Drive, etc.

Most who are referring to mail say Gmail while when referring to web searching (which they never say) it's Google/Googling (often whether they actually use the Google search engine [and most do] or not).

I have taken to asking, "Do you use Gmail?," rather than ever saying, "Do you have a Google Account?," because the answer to the former is often an accurate, "Yes," and the latter and inaccurate, "No," because they don't connect Gmail to Google as a bigger ecosystem.

 

[britechguy]

Yeah but I don't know how much is the institutions choice and how much is MS ending it. [In reply to my mentioning that my recent experiences with institutions of higher learning is that students are provided with M365 at no charge or very low charge while they remain enrolled.]

Oh, I absolutely believe this is because it's what Microsoft now provides. All of the educational deals over the years were entirely controlled by terms created and (in theory) policed by Microsoft. I have no reason to believe this has changed, and since M365 is Microsoft's flagship product, whether residential or business, it makes sense for them to get students using that ecosystem so they will keep using it after their student days come to an end.

The "fire sale prices" for students and faculty at institutions of higher education has always been a marketing strategy on the part of Microsoft. Hook 'em, then reel 'em in!