Would you take a Coronavirus Vaccine

[britechguy]

@britechguy but the antibody tests aren't accurate themselves. I've seen exactly no virologist report those tests as useful for predicting immune status on anything.

Look up antibody titer tests. They've been the gold standard for determining immunity for as long as I've been alive.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'll stand in line soon.....while I never had a lot of faith in prior flu vaccines....often for the prior years variant so not effective in the next year. But..this one, hey, I'll contribute to what needs to be done. Not having any more kids or being pregnant..so no worry about birth defects.

We quality for group 1B...so we can get in line now.

The 'Vid isn't slowing us down, my wife and I still eat out at least once a week, meet friends for dinner on weekends, and we still travel...going to Florida again in a few days. I go grocery shopping 2-3 days a week, and due to our job, doing onsites...so I'm already exposed to high risk. Traveling, IMO, I feel safer than going to the grocery store.

 

[VISA MC]

Yeah, the mask mandates, and the vaccines aren't about protecting ourselves, it's about protecting those around us.

As am I. But it's not about me, and me alone, but about my community.

I understand this part, but where do you draw the line? We all take a brand new vaccine to prevent covid in our communities and all die of some sort of cancer 10 years from now that was traced back to this vaccine?
I have not personally found enough compelling research saying that this vaccine won’t cause major consequences down the line. It’s just too much unknown for me at this point.

 

[britechguy]

@VISA MC

Your worries are the very definition of a red herring.

If you don't want to take the vaccine, then fine, but at least have a rational reason that's not some wild, utterly improbable non-reason. The cancer trope is just plain dumb, based on everything we know about the medical technology in use in this vaccine.

You're about as likely to get cancer from a vaccine, in a single dose or two doses, as to be hit by a meteorite while sitting at your computer typing. It's so utterly improbable as to not be worth considering. It wouldn't fall into any accurate risk analysis.

Being uncomfortable is enough. But trying to justify that discomfort with this kind of BS doesn't help your case one bit.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yeah, the mRNA vaccines in particular have two components, fat, and protein in the form of an RNA molecule. The nature of how it works processes entirely through your system in a matter of days. Then it's gone... literally nothing left behind.

If the existence of those materials is going to cause your immune system to go nuts, going outside and taking your next mineral laden breath was vastly more likely to do the same.

You suck down vastly more risky compounds eating a cheeseburger. There is nothing to fear from these shots. And that's why you don't see a ton of research being done on this specific set of circumstances because the nature of the vaccine literally precludes all of those potential eventualities. There is NOTHING ELSE in that shot but those two ingredients... no mercury containing compounds, heavy elements of any kind, not even water... it's fat and protein.

The catch to these vaccines is two fold... cost, and their storage requirements. The risk for us? They might not actually impart much in the way of protection, because they're VERY finely targeted.

The irony here is the mRNA technology, is looking like a magic bullet for cancer. A biopsy of the tumor, along with some magic becomes an mRNA shot that tells your body how to target the cancer itself. And POOF magic immune response that murders cancer. It's in the video I linked above. This thing might just cure Diabetes, type 1 AND 2 as well. This stuff is powerful, and you're welcome to be afraid of it... but those of us that are dealing with chronic illnesses already are very much enjoying watching this technology see expanded use. So do what you feel you need to, but don't be shocked when people look at you a bit funny when you're afraid of cancer being produced by the best cancer treatment we've yet invented as a species.

 

[overburnz]

Yeah, the mask mandates, and the vaccines aren't about protecting ourselves, it's about protecting those around us.

Especially around here, every single one of us that does house calls owes it to our customers to get these shots. Otherwise we're saying that our ignorance is greater than their lives, and if not their lives their productivity. We don't deploy into offices while we're sick for the same reasons.

The mRNA vaccine cannot cause cancer, it simply cannot. Talk to your doctor and find out how it works.
The J&J vaccine based on older tech actually has greater risks in this regard, not that I expect it does. Because you'd be saying the flu shot causes cancer. I'll admit I never placed priority on that shot until my son got sick... but afterword was rather surprised at the general health improvements it seemed to provide.

@overburnz There is no test to prove immunity... It simply doesn't exist. Being T-Cell positive doesn't indicate immunity, it indicates the existence of T-Cells.

Yep... I would very much rather take an immunity test instead a vaccine, like the flu vaccine (wich I do not take) the covid could be unnecessary to (probably) many of us if there were such a test

 

[VISA MC]

@VISA MC

Your worries are the very definition of a red herring.

If you don't want to take the vaccine, then fine, but at least have a rational reason that's not some wild, utterly improbable non-reason. The cancer trope is just plain dumb, based on everything we know about the medical technology in use in this vaccine.

You're about as likely to get cancer from a vaccine, in a single dose or two doses, as to be hit by a meteorite while sitting at your computer typing. It's so utterly improbable as to not be worth considering. It wouldn't fall into any accurate risk analysis.

Being uncomfortable is enough. But trying to justify that discomfort with this kind of BS doesn't help your case one bit.

You can call it what you will, but I’ve seen enough cases of learning things we didn’t know 10+ years ago that cause life changing events that nobody simply knew.

You could say asbestos is deadly, but do you think if we knew it was dangerous all along they would have used it in the very homes we live and offices we work in? Doubtful they simply didn’t know at the time.

You could say smoking cigarettes causes cancer. I am willing to bet that if you ask many older adults if they knew smoking cigarettes would cause them to 1) die, 2) have to undergo horrible treatments to save their life (chemo, radiation, removed body parts), 3) have to talk with a voice box, would they still light up a pack a day their whole life? Would they start in the first place? I can tell you everyone I have asked said absolutely not.

you could say now we know certain chemicals have causes birth defects or genetic disorders, but do you think if the parents knew by exposing themself then having kids, their kids would have dangerous conditions, would they have still done it? Again all have said no.

I can assure you if my dad knew the long term effects of the chemicals he worked with would end his life and not see his kids graduate or get married, or meet his grandkids, he would not have followed the career path he did.

the thing is nobody knows. I am all for innovation but, the simple fact is everything that everyone has said is ALL theories. Hundreds of thousands of hours of research has gone into them yes, but at the end of the day nobody can be sure it’s completely safe in the long term based on the very short term we have experienced. It’s all a guess. Albeit an educated and guided guess, but it’s still a guess.

 

[britechguy]

It’s all a guess. Albeit an educated and guided guess, but it’s still a guess.

Exactly. As opposed to completely wild speculation.

Relying on logic, reason, and expert opinion is preferable and, in the vast majority of cases, more accurately predictive.

 

[Sky-Knight]

And there we have it, the my stupidity is worth more than your son's life argument...

And with that I'm out, because I've now got yet one more place I get to try to exist in where idiots run recklessly rampant and I get to worry about the damage they do.

Seriously @VISA MC, I pray you or no one you care deeply about comes down with a real illness, something that can't just be fixed with a magic pill and some sleep because if this is the way you handle real medical problems you'd simply detonate in a fireball made out of stress and nihilism.

And please don't get me wrong, I'm not angry just seriously frustrated and worried. Not just for my son, but you as well. I can't be angry, because I was you... I thought THE SAME WAY about much of medicine right up until my son got sick and the first three months after that I was forced through an education that almost killed me, and aged me substantially. I don't wish that nightmare on anyone.

Just know, your ignorance is condemning others to profound pain the likes of which you cannot possibly imagine.

 

[VISA MC]

And there we have it, the my stupidity is worth more than your son's life argument...

And with that I'm out, because I've now got yet one more place I get to try to exist in where idiots run recklessly rampant and I get to worry about the damage they do.

Seriously @VISA MC, I pray you or no one you care deeply about comes down with a real illness, something that can't just be fixed with a magic pill and some sleep because if this is the way you handle real medical problems you'd simply detonate in a fireball made out of stress and nihilism.

And please don't get me wrong, I'm not angry just seriously frustrated and worried. Not just for my son, but you as well. I can't be angry, because I was you... I thought THE SAME WAY about much of medicine right up until my son got sick and the first three months after that I was forced through an education that almost killed me, and aged me substantially. I don't wish that nightmare on anyone.

Just know, your ignorance is condemning others to profound pain the likes of which you cannot possibly imagine.

It’s interesting that you call me ignorant right after saying I’ve never dealt with a real illness. You might want to read the post again.

I can assure you if my dad knew the long term effects of the chemicals he worked with would end his life and not see his kids graduate or get married, or meet his grandkids, he would not have followed the career path he did.

So I pose you this question: Let’s say 10 years from now scientists discover that while the vaccine did improve your ability to fight Covid, it also damaged a chromosome that causes vision loss in offspring. Now again, it doesn’t show itself in the carrier, only in the children. If you had the power to know that going into it that your next born child would be blind because of the vaccine, would you still take it?

I appreciate your technical knowledge and assistance around here, but it seems you make it out like you are the only one with problems or have kids with problems.

Since you know so much about my life, you would also know that I have a sibling born with no fingers. We still don’t know what caused that 20 years later. I promise you if my parents knew that whatever they did, whatever medicine they took, whatever job they performed, whatever they drank or smoked or whatever they did would cause a birth defect in their child. They would not have done it.

I also have someone who has a genetic disorder. We now know this was caused by their parent being exposed to agent orange. The parent has no issues, but the genetic disorder is caused in their children. Once again, ask them - if they KNEW that exposure would cause major issues for their kids, would they have kids? The answer is absolutely not. But they didn’t know the effects until 30 years later

Would you knowingly use asbestos your home knowing it will cause respiratory issues like mesothelioma for your kids and spouse? I would have to assume not, but people did because they didn’t know it would be dangerous at the time.

Again my point is this: we have a virus that has only directly affected 8% of people in the entire United States. Of those 8% of people infected, 98% of them survive. You have very good odds of surviving without a vaccine, is it worth potentially causing OTHER issues to prevent one that affects such a small group of our population? My opinion is no it’s not worth it.

 

[britechguy]

So I pose you this question: Let’s say 10 years from now scientists discover that while the vaccine did improve your ability to fight Covid, it also damaged a chromosome that causes vision loss in offspring. Now again, it doesn’t show itself in the carrier, only in the children. If you had the power to know that going into it that your next born child would be blind because of the vaccine, would you still take it?

You pose another red herring that has virtually zero probability of being true.

That's not how reasonable people go about making decisions affecting their own health and that of others around them.

If I thought you were doing this "just for effect" it would be one thing, but you actually seem to believe that because there could be a possibility, however remote, of anything happening that the appropriate response is avoidance. If that's the case, then I presume you never get in a car or an airplane. The probability of your dying during commercial air travel, which is extremely remote, is far more likely than the scenarios you keep churning out.

You really, really need to learn how an accurate risk analysis is done.

 

[Sky-Knight]

That plus the utter lack of comprehension of the real risks of COVID, which have NOTHING to do with the death rate by the way, wrap this up with a particularly nasty bow. Agent Orange and Asbestos have nothing to do with the vaccines being deployed. The parallel being drawn is utterly bonkers in the context of history too. I'm an air force brat, and I have a departed grandfather that almost killed my grandmother with an improperly ventilated welding shop. See, I've got useless anecdotes too!

Crap has changed in the last 100 years a LOT. We have computers now, and they can run simulations based on models that hold thousands of years worth of patterns in them. Is this process fool proof? No... but it's infinitely more reliable than the argument you're raising.

You may as well be telling us all that the MMR shot causes autism. That's the level of ignorance you're pushing here.

And in the process you're trying to get my son killed, which leaves me in the terrible position of wanting to test castle doctrine... But that's what I get to do with my own idiot family members, I don't need to deal with it around here too.

P.S When I said a LOT up there, that's the understatement of the century literally. Germ theory wasn't generally accepted until the late 1800s. We've gone from leeches to laser surgery in 1.5 lifetimes... It's hard to keep up.

 

[britechguy]

You may as well be telling us all that the MMR shot causes autism. That's the level of ignorance you're pushing here.

Precisely.

 

[VISA MC]

You pose another red herring that has virtually zero probability of being true.

That's not how reasonable people go about making decisions affecting their own health and that of others around them.

If I thought you were doing this "just for effect" it would be one thing, but you actually seem to believe that because there could be a possibility, however remote, of anything happening that the appropriate response is avoidance. If that's the case, then I presume you never get in a car or an airplane. The probability of your dying during commercial air travel, which is extremely remote, is far more likely than the scenarios you keep churning out.

You really, really need to learn how an accurate risk analysis is done.

Zero probability of being true?

Do you believe the same about everything else mentioned? Go back and ask folks if they thought Asbestos would kill people later. Go back and ask the guys with voice boxes if they thought smoking 3 packs a day would make them live like that down the road. In every case the answer is no.

 

[VISA MC]

Agent Orange and Asbestos have nothing to do with the vaccines being deployed.

Please show me where I said they did.

I was providing other examples of things everyone thought was fine until years later. Or do you think the builders who used asbestos KNEW full well they would kill people down the road? Do you believe the person I am talking about’a parent KNEW he would make his child’s life hell?

'm an air force brat, and I have a departed grandfather that almost killed my grandmother with an improperly ventilated welding shop. See, I've got useless anecdotes too!

Do you think if you could ask him if he KNEW it would almost kill his wife, would he still do it?

You may as well be telling us all that the MMR shot causes autism. That's the level of ignorance you're pushing here.

And in the process you're trying to get my son killed, which leaves me in the terrible position of wanting to test castle doctrine...

Never did I say either of those. That’s what’s great about this country- if you believe you are going to be in the tiny percentage of folks who get it. And even more if you believe you are going to be in the minute group of folks who die then you can get the shot.

I am simply showing many other examples of things we as a population learned years down the road that we didn’t know at the time. I guess you know everything there ever is to know about this vaccine and nothing will ever surface later. I wish I had that ability. But the facts are nobody does. Not even the scientists who developed it know everything there is to know.

also I’m not angry either, but please don’t call me names because I have a different opinion. Not one time have I called anyone names.

 

[britechguy]

Zero probability of being true?

Do you believe the same about everything else mentioned? Go back and ask folks if they thought Asbestos would kill people later. Go back and ask the guys with voice boxes if they thought smoking 3 packs a day would make them live like that down the road. In every case the answer is no.

The history of asbestos, like many carcinogens, is riddled with both ignorance, initially, and active cover-ups later. And the degree of cover-up from even the earliest days of studies of smoking, by the tobacco industry itself, are well known.

I do not believe that either are good models or analogs to the circumstances of the Covid-19 vaccine. Even the base motivations would be coming from entirely different sides of the spectrum.

There's no logical force in saying that if I knew something were harmful that I didn't know were harmful at the time I did it I would have avoided it. I doubt you could get many to say, "I would have done it anyway."

You are not able to engage in an accurate risk analysis of either Covid-19 itself, nor of those of the various vaccines. That's absolutely clear. Nor are you willing to engage in logically consistent argument. So this post, in response to you, will be my last. I long ago learned the truth of the quotation that follows, and I've done my duty for putting rational counterpoints on the table:

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)

 

[BO Terry]

Unless something changes, I plan to take it when it becomes available to me. I am a single parent and also am one of two primary caregivers to my 98-year-old mother. Anything I can do to keep myself healthy as well as protect them, I'm in.

On that note, I have seen where various IT jobs qualify in Phase 3. Though I do not have a job as @NETWizz describes, I've been wondering if anyone has looked into how one may qualify under Phase 3.

 

[BO Terry]

As am I. But it's not about me, and me alone, but about my community. I am in the demographic where there are lots of asymptomatic or nearly asymptomatic spreaders. I have a duty not to become one of those.

^^This x 10!

 

[Markverhyden]

I was providing other examples of things everyone thought was fine until years later.

You mean like Thalidomide?

Anyone who has a concern about long term effects of these mRNA, as well as other "new technologies", treatments has a very valid concern. Just because the chorus sings louder doesn't mean the song has changed.

10 dangerous drugs recalled by the FDA | MDLinx

A list of drugs that were recalled by the FDA.

www.mdlinx.com

 

[britechguy]

You mean like Thalidomide?

Anyone who has a concern about long term effects of these mRNA, as well as other "new technologies", treatments has a very valid concern. Just because the chorus sings louder doesn't mean the song has changed.

10 dangerous drugs recalled by the FDA | MDLinx

A list of drugs that were recalled by the FDA.

www.mdlinx.com

Again, apples and oranges.

Even the article indicates that some of these drugs were not used "as per manufacturer instructions" in order for damage to occur.

You really cannot equate issues caused by either long term (relative - depending on drug) use, use beyond designated limits, or patient increased dosage with the risks of a 2-shot vaccine.

Yes, there have been instances, like Thalidomide, where "use as directed" caused disaster. Those have been very few and far between, and even in most of those it was something taken repeatedly, over time, not a single dose or two doses. There are very, very few teratogens that act that powerfully in a single dose or a couple of doses.