[REQUEST] 6500 sqf+ Log Home with Eth; WiFi Setup Help

Romaniac

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Hey all,

So I have a situation where I need some advice/previous experience feedback as there are some variables at play. I am also lacking some experience with a large home and the different solutions that are now available; so please take it easy.

If you want to see what I want to accomplish/what the client wants, scroll to the bottom. It's possible this is simpler than I think.

Thanks for the help!


Physical setting:

- Location is in the foothills in Colorado; Cell reception is weak, and thus the client needs reliable WiFi connectivity and coverage.
- 6,500 square foot log home, with a partial second floor. Additionally, the client would like some coverage in the yard.
- Mostly wood walls (Perhaps 8"-10" thick logs), though there are other materials in some places, like plaster or drywall.


Current Network info:
- Comcast, 150mbps down
- The client has done a good job wiring the house with Ethernet runs. He has 6 cable runs throughout the home. I speed tested all of them and the throughput was good. (Tested with a Dell i7 laptop).
- He has 10+ port forwarding rules he had to setup for certain devices.

Comcast Modem (modem only) > Netgear Router (old) > A basic Switch (straight through, no config) > All other Eths go throughout house, one desktop and a couple bridges (more under additional network info).

One line has a wall jack it goes through, and the throughput there was a little lower than others.


Current WiFi configuration:
- A hodgepodge of APs that are wired via the Eths. Different types of Netgear (1 with bad wifi output, 2 OK), a D-Link (not great wifi), and a Cisco (OK wifi, but this is the one on the line that goes through jack and has lower throughout).
-WiFi signals seemed OK, but speeds were terrible. I was getting 20mbps from most of them, even being right next to them.
- APs have same network SSID and password on all the APs.


Additional network info, considerations:
I'm hoping to impact these very little, or at all as they're working great.
- DELL server running on the network; sounds like a simple setup hosting a OneDrive account for backup.
- EnGenious (brand) Wireless bridge going to his son's house, half a mile down the road. That's working great.
He also has a wireless bridge going out to a shed where he has an AP. That also works great.

What's happening and What the client wants:
- The current APs he has do OK-ish, but not great (hence he called). I think devices connect to an AP and tend to hold onto that signal even though a better one may be available. Basically, there needs to be a better "hand-off" and also throughput.

- The client would like reliable WiFi connectivity throughout the house (and some yard coverage), as family relies on WiFi calling, etc.

- Equipment budget seems to be fine at $800 and possibly even more.



Solution thoughts:

Is a mesh network what I want here?
Is there a solution - mesh or otherwise - where we can utilize more than 1 or 2 eth runs for better throughput? Perhaps even all 6 throughout the house? He also wanted to use them because I think he though it's a shame if they're idle.

Would a Google mesh network work and be more user friendly? Setup WiFi with this and leave most of the network untouched? But can it utilize the eths?
Saw a review noting that if the ISP modem can't act as a pure bride, you have to deal with a NAT; don't like that.

Ubiquity for home?
He is willing to do a Ubiquity enterprise solution, but I'm wondering if that will get too complicated with the settings. He does seem capable though. But I don't want to get bogged down in a ton of configs.

I'd like to leave his switches and bridges alone, if possible.



Thank You!
 
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Regardless of what brand you use, you still have to follow basic wifi principles. Once you have a large enough area that requires multiple access points, you don't just plop APs in place and walk out. Sure..it may "appear" to work OK for light to medium stuff, but get more demanding users with more demanding apps that require a good connection...and you start to see why installing good wireless requires a bit of "tuning" the setup after installation.

You talk about wifi clients seem to hold onto an AP even though they have moved to a closer one that has a stronger signal. Yes..by default a wireless client will hold onto its the first AP it latched onto..even if you walk down the hall 50 feet and stand next to another AP. This is a poorly tuned setup.

First, you stagger the channels. Ensuring no neighboring APs are on the same or overlapping channels. So...for example, with 2.4, you stagger channels 1, 6, and 11 as best you can. Don't have two APs that are next to each other both on channel 6 for example. With the 5.0 radios, you can have more channels, depending on if 80 or 40 or 20 wide channels...and if near airports or not.

The 5.0 radios have about half of the range of 2.4...but they're faster, so it's easier to have APs closer to each other....more desirable actually. But...now you'll have too much 2.4 overlap and noise. Well...we typically disable the 2.4 radio on about 1/2 of the APs because of this...sorta like every other one, or every third one. Whatever it takes.

You need to adjust the transmit power (TX) of the APs so they don't overlap/spillover too much into the coverage area of the neighboring APs.

Next...is you manually set the RSSI...lowering that. What this does is encourages the wireless client to check for another closer AP with a stronger signal, and if it detects it..let go, and cling onto that one. For example, by default, Apple devices tend to use 75. I like to lower that a bit, to 70, or into the high 60's or mid 60's. You gotta spend time walking around and trying things. And walk around and try slowly..and repetitively. take your time doing this.

Installing wireless is easy. Tweaking/turning it is easily several more times the time spent on it.

For a home, much easier. Even 6500 sq ft..I don't see you needing more than probably 4 or so APs. So the above is a bit of overkill..you're not doing a school with 40 APs for example. But just wanted to give you a glimpse of a bigger setup so you get the concept of channel spreads, TX power and RSSI.

What's the server actually for? OneDrive doesn't reside on a server...it's local on workstations/laptops.
 
I have one customer who setup Google's mesh in their store. He said it worked very well in his home but I never looked at it. I did a few tests in store and seemed ok but we had to retire it. Can't bridge the ISP when mesh is running.

On the equipment. I'd work at moving to a single platform. Especially with the mix of AP's.

On the server and OneDrive. How exactly is that setup? Clients accessing file shares on the server which are in turn synced to OneDrive?
 
6500 sq ft!?

Pics! :)

Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I saw/toured a 4900 sq foot model house in Vegas in 2003....; that amount of space is incredible! Now add 1500 sq ft to that?)

Wow!
 
@MDD1963 - it's log with a very western look and feel on inside. It's not modern or anything. But yah, large.

@YeOldeStonecat - that's what's there now. I haven't touched anything.

His APs were mostly on 2 channels. I'm not sure all have the tuning abilities to mention; we would need to get a good set of them anyway, if we go APs.

As I look deeper into mesh networks, they seem increasingly desirable.

@Markverhyden - did you run into the NAT issue?

Yah I tought google would be a contender but looks like it may not work with his setup.


The "server" is now this:
"It's pretty much just running onedrive and giving us a local backup of what's on the cloud with OneDrive. It's not a huge necessity."



I supoose the main question is this: stick with APs and get better ones...

OR

Mesh?
 
I supoose the main question is this: stick with APs and get better ones...

OR

Mesh?

We try to stick with a limited list of brands that we work with. Ubiquiti is our "go to" product, since we focus on businesses..and not residential. Now, granted, Ubiquiti is overkill for most residentials, but larger houses...I've done a lot of those with Ubiquiti Unifi.

Mesh systems...much better than prior generation single radio setups...as mesh systems can dedicate radio to the backhaul and use the other for wifi. The best performing mesh system for a while was (probably still is) Netgears Orbi system, it uses a truly dedicated 3rd radio for the backhaul links.

You want to keep the amount of wireless hops to a minimum...ideally not more than 1x wireless hop from a wired AP.

Ubiquiti has their residential mesh product called Amplifi...works quite well.

If this house is pre-wired...I'd consider wired APs...they'll always work better.
Be it ceiling mount Unifis....or mixed in with the "in wall" models.
 
An economical solution is powerline homeplug. Easy, quick and gives them hard Ethernet plug points also. Not the fastest. Just say'n......
 
The regular Unifi APs have a mesh mode.

Yup. Used that even back in the old green light 2.4 only Unifi days. And their new HDBeacon model which was just released.

Just pointing out the Amplifi range..doesn't require the need for a Unifi controller...keeps it easier for residential.
 
@YeOldeStonecat - thanks.

You think Amplify would be up to the task vs walls of 8"-10" logs? What APs would I mix that with to keep the mesh?

I'm not too concerned about the controller (that's the software, yes?) being used by client as I believe he would be capable.
 
I'd really want to go in and do a site survey ahead of time.
Grab an AP and plop it where you think you'd install it in a room, and then walk around with a wifi survey software running on your laptop and measure signal strength as you move around...finding out where it drops to below acceptable. From there start figuring out where you'd want the next AP to be. Yup..lots of back and forth, and trying this and that.
 
I am pretty sure wifi is not going to penetrate solid log walls. It's going to bounce around and go through windows and door openings in those walls. The more openings you have, the better it will work. Even if the AP could push wifi through the walls, your phone's or laptop's radio won't push it back through and it won't work. I'd be looking at putting an AP everywhere they want a signal. One in the great room, one in the bedroom and one wherever they have a TV. I've only got one customer with a log house, and that's how we "fixed" the wifi problem. My guy's house was more like 1800 sq. ft. though, so not nearly as big of a job. This place also had a huge floor-to-roof stone fireplace that added to the challenge.
 
I'll have to mess with TX and RSSI then; thanks for that info.

OK, Ubiquity APs with mesh mode? Which model would make the most sense? And am I required to have the USG? Or maybe their router?

We do need a new router and actually client wanted a newer Comcast-compatible modem as well, though the one he has is old, it seems fine.
 
Not required to have their router, not required to have their switches either. But having all Unifi from top to bottom of the technology stack sure makes it easy to manage the network via the Unifi controller.

I used to do just about all UAP AC Pro models..but I'm starting to use the replacement model a lot more, the nanoHDs.
Unifi does their mesh uplinks on the 5 radio...so you want the stronger MIMO for 5 performance...faster uplink 'tween the APs
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/360008036574-UniFi-Access-Point-Comparison-Charts
 
Would do Orbi and hardwire as many then mesh any others.

We are a unifi shop but not pushing on residential cloents
 
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